Fair Price for Air B&B L2 Charging?

[jjrandorin]

Thats true, but didn't the OP say they have a Powerwall? They wouldn't hit the utility until the power wall was expended, then the PW could re-charge at night during lower rates.

PGE sounds like a mess, at least the businesses are figuring it out and leaving.

Powerwalls dont "charge at night at lower rates" in the US when they are connected to solar. Thats not how it works. They are prevented from charging from the grid at all, if you have solar, except for emergency situations that tesla triggers on their side.

There is no price arbitrage with solar + powerwall with the powerwall charging from the grid at night, in the US, when you have solar.

Source = me, with my solar and powerwall install.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

3 nights would cost $75 on top of the AIRBNB costs he's already paying is a total ripoff. If he doesn't know what he is doing how is he going to meter the connection? I would be tempted just use the 10 AMP wall plug, slower, but I'll still get the same KW's over time.

$25 for the weekend... I would be ok with that.

 

[Spacep0d]

No one with a powerwall is filling their EV from powerwall power. each powerwall is 13.5kWh of power from 0-100. Its like trying to fill 4 d batteries with 1 double A battery. I have solar + 2 powerwalls so am familiar with how they work.

I just happen to disagree with those who are saying "its a rip off". I showed the general math above. $50 is a rip off, sure, $25? not so much.

Also, having an charging EVSE in the garage would mean he would be shutting out some that didnt have the specific adapter. Teslas before mid 2019 came with the 14-50 adapter and many tesla owners buy it anyway for use at home. the owner "could" put in a generic juicebox or something, but in general if one reads here, people tend to tell people " just put in a 14-50 adapter" so I find the thought that the owner did something "wrong" by putting one in funny.

In Virginia, $25 would be gouging. In california, its not. Its roughly the same cost as what supercharging would cost (in general). I laid out where that OP is likely getting the costs from so they dont have to think about it. It certainly isnt free for them.. even if they have solar the solar install cost them thousands.

Air BnB isnt my thing.. I would never stay in one, wouldnt want my neighbors home to be one, and would likely not buy a home to run as an air bnb. With that being said, for CA, $25 for a night of charging with no limitations is not excessive to me. $50 is though.

The good thing is that a plug-in EVSE can be unplugged if for some reason someone prefers the 14-50 without it. I think most EV owners are going to prefer the J1772, including many or most Tesla owners who have the J1772 adapter that came with their vehicle.

With an Airbnb, I think an EVSE is far more useful to most EVs than a naked 14-50 outlet. How would a non-Tesla such as a LEAF even use such a thing without their own specialized adapter? As far as I understand it, some cars absolutely require the EVSEs as they don't have their own 'built in' tech like Tesla does.

The EVSE plug-in solution is probably the best of all worlds here.

 

[jjrandorin]

The good thing is that a plug-in EVSE can be unplugged if for some reason someone prefers the 14-50 without it. I think most EV owners are going to prefer the J1772, including many or most Tesla owners who have the J1772 adapter that came with their vehicle.

With an Airbnb, I think an EVSE is far more useful to most EVs than a naked 14-50 outlet.

Then he has to figure out how to lock it down, so that someone doesnt steal it (a plug in EVSE). Would be better to wire it in, and not have to worry about that.

I am not "tin foil hat" person, but lets also not pretend that everyone is on the up and up 100% of the time. Someone WOULD steal it, eventually, if it was simply a plug in type. Thats a crime of opportunity, like leaving an tablet or phone in the seat of an unlocked car outside overnight.

Most locks and such are to prevent such "crimes of opportunity". If someone really wants your stuff, or to break into your home, they will. The owner of an air BNB with charging should either have the 14-50 like they do, or a hard wired EVSE with the standard adapter for the US J1772.

The owner probably had the 14-50 put in when he (she) put in the powerwall, its pretty common to do that at that time.

Anyway, everyone needs to make their own decisions, so its not like I am faulting OP or anyone else for that. What the owner of the Air BnB should actually be doing, is raising the price of their AirBnB $25 - 30 a night, and then just advertising that they have an EV plug and are offering free charging.

Just like people hate being low balled on a trade in ( so regular car dealers will give more on a trade in, just to take it back on the new car deal.. very common practice if one isnt careful), its obvious that even a fairly reasonable charge for nightly charging is going to be looked at unfavorably. OP is in CA so knows what electricity costs out here (but may not be on a TOU plan with the peak rates of somewhere between 36 cents and 52 cents on SCE depending on plan). its obvious that those outside of CA would balk at such rates.

Better to hide it from the renter by increasing base price of the AirBnB and offering "free" charging.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Anyway, everyone needs to make their own decisions, so its not like I am faulting OP or anyone else for that. What the owner of the Air BnB should actually be doing, is raising the price of their AirBnB $25 - 30 a night, and then just advertising that they have an EV plug and are offering free charging.

Just like people hate being low balled on a trade in ( so regular car dealers will give more on a trade in, just to take it back on the new car deal.. very common practice if one isnt careful), its obvious that even a fairly reasonable charge for nightly charging is going to be looked at unfavorably. OP is in CA so knows what electricity costs out here (but may not be on a TOU plan with the peak rates of somewhere between 36 cents and 52 cents on SCE depending on plan). its obvious that those outside of CA would balk at such rates.

Better to hide it from the renter by increasing base price of the AirBnB and offering "free" charging.

Yes, and if they did that arguably they could raise it by $10/night and still come out ahead as most folks don’t have EV’s. The ones that do will remember where their business was welcomed

 

[jjrandorin]

Yes, and if they did that arguably they could raise it by $10/night and still come out ahead as most folks don’t have EV’s. The ones that do will remember where their business was welcomed

That would likely be even better.. because you are right, the $10 a night for everyone would likely cover the charging those with EVs do when they show up. Either way, I think we are in 100% alignment that what that owner should be doing is increasing their base rate " some amount" and offering "free" charging. If that was the case, its likely OP is not making this post, and OPs girlfriend would be happily staying in her AirBnB going about whatever she was planning to do, rather than having OP negotiating charging costs for her (lol).

 

[tstolze]

Here's how I see it, the owner paid for the installation and now you can charge where you are staying instead of driving to/from a charging station, not to mention the time spent at the charger... well worth it for the convenience if you are going to be using the car enough to require daily charging.

 

[pjensen]

Here's how I see it, the owner paid for the installation and now you can charge where you are staying instead of driving to/from a charging station, not to mention the time spent at the charger... well worth it for the convenience if you are going to be using the car enough to require daily charging.

This is a good point. Sometimes it is worth paying a bit more for some convenience.

Probably the most electricity used will be on the first day (arrival), then after that it would be minimal tops offs. Typically the remaining driving is just for shopping, seeing local attractions, restaurants. At least that has been my experience while staying at vrbo houses.

Many times the choice of a particular vrbo is based on one feature (other than location). It might be a large kitchen and dining room, if you have a family get together. Or it might be a big back yard with swings for grandkids. Or it might be electrical charging as is the deciding feature as in this case.

The owner is smart to add this feature, but is apparently clueless how to market it. Charging the $50 a night is a deal killer. $25 a night might be ok if you are just there for a few nights. I agree with the previous poster on just adding $10/night to the rent and calling it "free".

But it sounds like to owner wants a lot more than that....

 

[Spacep0d]

Then he has to figure out how to lock it down, so that someone doesnt steal it (a plug in EVSE). Would be better to wire it in, and not have to worry about that.

I am not "tin foil hat" person, but lets also not pretend that everyone is on the up and up 100% of the time. Someone WOULD steal it, eventually, if it was simply a plug in type. Thats a crime of opportunity, like leaving an tablet or phone in the seat of an unlocked car outside overnight.

Most locks and such are to prevent such "crimes of opportunity". If someone really wants your stuff, or to break into your home, they will. The owner of an air BNB with charging should either have the 14-50 like they do, or a hard wired EVSE with the standard adapter for the US J1772.

The owner probably had the 14-50 put in when he (she) put in the powerwall, its pretty common to do that at that time.

Anyway, everyone needs to make their own decisions, so its not like I am faulting OP or anyone else for that. What the owner of the Air BnB should actually be doing, is raising the price of their AirBnB $25 - 30 a night, and then just advertising that they have an EV plug and are offering free charging.

Just like people hate being low balled on a trade in ( so regular car dealers will give more on a trade in, just to take it back on the new car deal.. very common practice if one isnt careful), its obvious that even a fairly reasonable charge for nightly charging is going to be looked at unfavorably. OP is in CA so knows what electricity costs out here (but may not be on a TOU plan with the peak rates of somewhere between 36 cents and 52 cents on SCE depending on plan). its obvious that those outside of CA would balk at such rates.

Better to hide it from the renter by increasing base price of the AirBnB and offering "free" charging.

Hi jjrandorin,

Well I can't argue that. With an Airbnb, a wired connection is better than a plug-in for exactly the reasons you've stated, but the owner seems not to have done things the right way. Certainly, a dedicated EVSE would be ideal (direct wiring). A single upside-down NEMA 14-50 will only be useful to a very limited patronage.

As for the pricing, I recommended that very thing to him. I just mentioned that he should increase the price per night and offer the EV-charging as added value. Those who care will love it, those who don't lose nothing (but for the nagging sense that they might be paying more per night), but competition is there for a reason. There are always other Airbnbs or hotels for that matter.

You're also correct about perception and costs, and there will be plenty of self-selected out-of-towners who want to rent an Airbnb in wine country California but only know their own electric rates. If one of them rents an EV on Turo or something, they're in for some sticker shock with those charging rates. It's better not to try to call out that cost whilst having to police EVs, who's charging when and for how long, etc. It's a L2 destination charger and should be treated as-such. So, we agree on this for sure.

 

[Spacep0d]

Yes, and if they did that arguably they could raise it by $10/night and still come out ahead as most folks don’t have EV’s. The ones that do will remember where their business was welcomed

I know that an EV charger as 'added value' would be worth at least one star on Yelp, especially if I wasn't charged like crazy for it.

 

[Spacep0d]

This is a good point. Sometimes it is worth paying a bit more for some convenience.

Probably the most electricity used will be on the first day (arrival), then after that it would be minimal tops offs. Typically the remaining driving is just for shopping, seeing local attractions, restaurants. At least that has been my experience while staying at vrbo houses.

Many times the choice of a particular vrbo is based on one feature (other than location). It might be a large kitchen and dining room, if you have a family get together. Or it might be a big back yard with swings for grandkids. Or it might be electrical charging as is the deciding feature as in this case.

The owner is smart to add this feature, but is apparently clueless how to market it. Charging the $50 a night is a deal killer. $25 a night might be ok if you are just there for a few nights. I agree with the previous poster on just adding $10/night to the rent and calling it "free".

But it sounds like to owner wants a lot more than that....

Yep, I offered this same idea in post #18 ($10 a night flat rate increase for everyone) and I offered this idea to the Airbnb owner directly, who instantly shot it down. He seems to think that people don't want to pay for what they're not using. Well, this is also the case if you charge people exorbitant amounts for electricity they're not using. Best thing is to keep it hidden, let the extra padding absorb the cost, and enjoy your stellar Yelp reviews as EV-driving vacationers rave about the added-value of a destination EVSE!

If he's smart, he'll figure it out eventually after a lot of pushback, which I warned is coming with those prices. I just happened to be the first one.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Precisely. In my opinion if in the owner’s shoes it isn’t worth my time/hassle or potentially souring a guest and risking a bad review over what amounts to a few bucks worth of electricity.

 

[Spacep0d]

Precisely. In my opinion if in the owner’s shoes it isn’t worth my time/hassle or potentially souring a guest and risking a bad review over what amounts to a few bucks worth of electricity.

Spot on.

 

[Raechris]

I don't understand this controversy:
1. Aren't you saving nickel and dime fees like parking by not going to hotel/resort at AirBB?
2. Don't you have the choice not to pay if you don't use the circuit.
3. Who cares what he wants to charge, it's his house. He probably doesn't want a 500 power bill unexpectedly
4. Sounds like host should increase nightly rate
5. Solar is not free - my system cost plenty.

 

[Raechris]

6. Don't Americans pay more for convenience every day, eg $4 cup of Starbucks that is worth 49 cents.

 

[Spacep0d]

6. Don't Americans pay more for convenience every day, eg $4 cup of Starbucks that is worth 49 cents.

Heya Raechris, what's there to understand? Would you pay $50 a night for L2 charging?

I don't understand this controversy:
1. Aren't you saving nickel and dime fees like parking by not going to hotel/resort at AirBB?

A lot of hotels don't have L2 destination charging. Even at a hotel I wouldn't pay $50 a night, but I think a hotel chain (or even a smaller, family-owned hotel) that was EV savvy wouldn't try that. They'd just build it in to the price. This way it's added-value for relevant clientele.

2. Don't you have the choice not to pay if you don't use the circuit.

Sure, but that makes the entire exercise moot. Of course, that's exactly what will happen. People won't pay those rates and he'll be forced to lower them. Since my girlfriend is already booked to visit the Airbnb, I'm trying to arrange it so she can actually use the charging solution without paying $50 a night. She doesn't know as much about EVSEs as I do, and I'm a lot more....assertive...when it comes to these things.

3. Who cares what he wants to charge, it's his house. He probably doesn't want a 500 power bill unexpectedly

A 'might makes right' argument is not a satisfying conclusion and offers no path for him to improve his charging arrangement for an Airbnb which he ostensibly wants to keep rented. Of course he can charge what he wants, but I was also genuinely trying to help him AND my girlfriend out by suggesting he not do things so ass backward. The guy doesn't even have an EV and his circuit was installed upside-down. A LEAF or Bolt couldn't even use that circuit without an EVSE. A Tesla owner couldn't use it without their charging cable and a $35 NEMA 14-50 adapter that they wouldn't think to have if the owner doesn't even know how to describe their charger. The owner is clearly new to this, so I was trying to help him without demanding it be free, necessarily. He's going to learn one way or another, from people like me who offer pushback or advice (or a little of both).

4. Sounds like host should increase nightly rate

Exactly what many of us in this thread have suggested, and I suggested this to him on the phone. He wasn't having it, stating that he didn't want to charge people for something they're not using. Oddly, he's willing to charge EV-drivers for electricity they're not using along with the risk of sullying the entire experience as drivers realize they're being nickel-and-dimed and also ripped off. If this isn't disclosed ahead of time, someone showing up with a low SoC is going to be mighty upset.

5. Solar is not free - my system cost plenty.

Solar benefits the owner too. Any charging for an Airbnb should be 'added value' and included in the nightly cost, whatever that is. If the price is too high, he'll just lose customers. Then again, L2 charging is pretty sweet, even if it's only 30mph NEMA 14-50. This will be especially useful for non-Tesla cars with less range and fewer DC-3 charging options.

Humans generally will pay for convenience if they have the means and the wherewithal to do so, but savvy people don't like being ripped off, right? Certainly, smart people are more apt to recognize this when it's happening. I'm guessing here that EV-owners probably skew a little more tech-savvy than the average bear, and might take issue with a $50 per night charging fee spelled out as-such. The best method here would be to see what it costs in actual use (let the first few customers try it for free) and then just pad the rental rate to allow charging. Further, a savvy EV owner would know to charge off-peak, but I understand that the Airbnb owner can't assume that they will.

 

[jerry33]

you are in a place that has electricity at 8 cents to 15 cents a kWh. OP is in California.

This wasn't anywhere near where I live.

 

[jerry33]

With an Airbnb, I think an EVSE is far more useful to most EVs than a naked 14-50 outlet. How would a non-Tesla such as a LEAF even use such a thing without their own specialized adapter?

I believe just about every BEV (including Leaf) can get a 14-50 adapter. Because 14-50s are common at RV parks, it's a really good idea for every EV owner that travels to purchase this adapter for their vehicle.

 

[cdswm3]

That's the price. Use it or not. You don't go to the corner store ask set your own price for milk. That is free enterprise as it should be.

 

[ucmndd]

Heya Raechris, what's there to understand? Would you pay $50 a night for L2 charging?

If I wanted to for convenience, or needed to based on infrastructure availability, sure.

But where did we get $50/night from? Weren’t we talking about $25?

I just don’t understand why this is controversial. Vote with your wallet, pay or don’t pay. There are no extra EV Karma points for being an annoying errr.... “assertive” dolt on your girlfriend’s behalf.

Ain’t nobody got time for that. Had you rented one of my properties and then insisted on incessant negotiating after the fact I’d preemptively cancel your reservation as you’ve self identified as a Difficult Customer(tm).