Fair tug of war?

[dzmconstr]

I just watched the Twitter version of the F150 tug of war? Was that a 2WD F150 vs a 4WD Cybertruck? Didn't look like the front tires were spinning under a torque load, but couldn't see the Tesla tires since it was taking the F150 to the drive thru for lunch....
Dzm

 

[SMAlset]

In today's news I read that the guy at Ford challenged Elon to a Ford 150 vs Telsa Cybertruck rematch. The Drive is reporting that Elon accepted so bring it on.

Elon Musk Accepts Ford's Challenge to Tesla Cybertruck vs. F-150 Tug-of-War Rematch

 

[odguy]

Ford challenges, Elon accepts

Ford VP challenges Tesla to a fair F-150 vs Cybertruck tow battle – TechCrunch

Oops, posted same time

 

[VT_EE]

The first truck to lose traction is toast. The EV with crazy torque at the low end has a significant advantage.

 

[Chisale]

No. That was by no means a fair test. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson weighed in on Twitter.

 

[Watts 4 Me]

What would happen is they did it against a 4 wd diesel? Would it be a better challenge?

 

[dzmconstr]

What would happen is they did it against a 4 wd diesel? Would it be a better challenge?

Would love to know...but I think I know who would win. Weight does have a factor as well based on intuition, though I'd love to hear from a mech engineer on why and physics explanation.
Dzm

 

[bedoig]

Fair? No. It's marketing. That said, I suspect an apples to apples test would still favor the EV. Hard to even say what is apples to apples though. Price? Towing capacity? Lots of ways you could slice that. I think the EV wins most, other than refueling while towing.

 

[Resist]

Elon said they were not like other auto makers, yet apparently their marketing tactics are. That video was as misleading as the ICE truck pulling a train or plane promos. I expected better from Tesla.

 

[bedoig]

Elon said they were not like other auto makers, yet apparently their marketing tactics are. That video was as misleading as the ICE truck pulling a train or plane promos. I expected better from Tesla.

Like when the Tesla pulled a 747?

 

[Resist]

Like when the Tesla pulled a 747?

Exactly, because that's just physics and not a representation of towing or carrying capacity. It doesn't define how strong or tough a truck is, but it fools people into thinking it is.

 

[keeney]

Both trucks have enough torque to spin their wheels attempting to tug of war, so torque is not an issue. The vehicle with the most weight on its drive axles is going to easily win. A 2wd traditional pickup has very little weight on the rear wheels by default.

I haven't seen the weight of the Tesla, but the thick stainless skin alone is going to outweigh the aluminum Ford not even taking into consideration the weight of an Electric vs Internal Combustion drive train.

If the weights were equal, than _maybe_ some anti-slip all-wheel drive technology would be useful. A typical anti-slip rear axle with the transfer case and front hubs locked on a typical 4wd truck is still gong to end up spinning the tires vs. static traction.

 

[jboy210]

Does it help that the Tesla's weight is down low in the batteries and the motors.

 

[keeney]

Does it help that the Tesla's weight is down low in the batteries and the motors.

Not significantly unless there is some shifting/tilting/squatting going on.
The height of the pulling attachment point does matter. If the back of one vehicle shifts upwards (perhaps with the help of an adjustable air suspension), you can generate down-pulling force on the one vehicle and up-pulling force on the other vehicle, stealing its traction.

 

[e-FTW]

Elon and NDT about this: Neil deGrasse Tyson on Twitter

 

[dzmconstr]

Does it help that the Tesla's weight is down low in the batteries and the motors.

I don't think so.. it's about the weight, 4wd vs 2wd, available torque, and tires IMO.

 

[keeney]

Reminds me of my favorite mechanical engineering interview question: Theoretically, if you have perfect tires with 1.0 coefficient of friction, you can only generate as much side force as the weight of the car which results in an acceleration of 1g, max. How do top fuel dragsters achieve accelerations in excess of 3gs when they are propelled forward only by the rear wheels?

 

[nwdiver]

ICE vs EV is never 'fair'

 

[odguy]

Ford replied to Elons acceptance of the challenge:

"A senior Ford spokesperson told InsideEVs.com that Madra’s tweet ‘was tongue-in-cheek’ and meant to point out the absurdity of Tesla’s tow video.”

UPDATE: Ford Accepts Tesla Towing Challenge: Asks For Cybertruck For Real Demo

 

[strider]

I can see a slight benefit of Tesla's very quick acting traction control. But as others have said, it will come down to weight and tire selection. To be a fair test they need to have the same tires, same air pressures, etc.