Fairfax County property tax appeal

[Chickenlittle]

I’m in.

I wish you luck but suspect no joy in the end. It is interesting that NADA (whichmunicipalities use to value cars) is a devoted tesla enemy with multiple pending law cases. They use crazy low depreciation on the cars to keep property tax h9gh in subsequent years too (model S and X and I have no doubt 3). They do this as an attempt to hurt tesla but seem to be giving the cars quite an endorsement

 

[kingjamez]

Here we go again...



Interestingly, if you recall the note from the Tax Director in Fairfax (post 47 in this thread), because the battery size was embedded in the VIN for Model S, they concluded the upgraded battery was not an option and could be taxed. Tesla does not seem to be coding the battery size into their VINs now so perhaps a case can be made to exclude the battery from the personal property tax assessment:
Model 3 VIN Decoder

Needless to say, I will be appealing.

Please let us know how it goes. My decision to buy a 3 will be based on what the personal property taxes end up being. It already hurts with 1 Tesla, not sure I can stomach 2.
-Jim

 

[Bobbyducati]

interesting that some people are still having issues with this in FC. in hopes of providing some relief, let me provide my anecdotal experience with my second tesla.

I purchased an inventory 90D last july for low 90's and the tax bill i got at the turn of the year for the previous 5 months or so was based on a value of ~72k$. I was pleasantly surprised when i saw this. considering it was a brand new car that retailed for 113k before the inventory discounts.

 

[DFibRL8R]

interesting that some people are still having issues with this in FC. in hopes of providing some relief, let me provide my anecdotal experience with my second tesla.

I purchased an inventory 90D last july for low 90's and the tax bill i got at the turn of the year for the previous 5 months or so was based on a value of ~72k$. I was pleasantly surprised when i saw this. considering it was a brand new car that retailed for 113k before the inventory discounts.

Good to know. I think much of the confusion stems from having a new model with no established resources in NADA guides etc. Perhaps the guide from the National Automobile Dealers Association is not the best tool for local governments to rely on for pricing given the conflict between Tesla and this group! I'm guessing when GM, Ford, Toyota etc come out with a brand new model, it somehow makes it into the guide. In fact when I looked for a new Model (2018 Kia Stinger for example is all new this year) it already conveniently has an entry in the NADA guide for MSRP. New 2018 Kia Stinger Base AWD MSRP Prices

There are other resources used such as the Black Book CPI (Cars of Particular Interest) guide but that requires a subscription to view data. Loudoun County's website on personal property tax assessment Loudoun County, VA - Official Website - Assessment
Gives this link:
Black Book | Used Car Values | Mobile App | Dealership Software

 

[Xenoilphobe]

How do they account for 70,000 miles on a 2014 P85+?

 

[DFibRL8R]

How do they account for 70,000 miles on a 2014 P85+?

Not sure about Fairfax but in Loudoun I have submitted an appeal for high mileage and received a discounted assessment. I was putting about 23k miles on my Model S per year. I'm not sure what the formula they use is for this but you have to submit each year you want your mileage considered (otherwise they just give you the average assessment based on model year).

If you have any unrepaired damage they will consider that as well. I have a ding in the rocker panel that I had an estimate for when the car was in for repairs from an unrelated collision. I considered making the repair until I saw the quote (something like $4k), I decided I could live with the ding but I submit the quote for the repair and it reduces the assessed value of the S. Seems like a pain in the ass but the point is taxing the fair value of the car which is diminished by high mileage and unrepaired damage.

 

[Max*]

How do they account for 70,000 miles on a 2014 P85+?

We've done this in Fairfax county on my wife's car. You need an official letter showing mileage (something like a service invoice... but since the Tesla's are connected via internet, you can probably just call the service center and have them send you an invoice with mileage at the start of the year -- January 1rst).

I don't remember the exact high mileage appeal process, but it was simple enough.

Not sure about Fairfax but in Loudoun I have submitted an appeal for high mileage and received a discounted assessment. I was putting about 23k miles on my Model S per year. I'm not sure what the formula they use is for this but you have to submit each year you want your mileage considered (otherwise they just give you the average assessment based on model year).

Did you get a decent discount?

From what I remember the discount was minimal (both in $ amount and % amount) in Fairfax county, her car was 3 years old and had like 70-75k miles when we did it.

 

[Max*]

I submitted a high mileage appeal, since the bills are coming out now. Probably should have done it earlier, but it doesn't really matter since they need the mileage from January 1rst, 2018.

I drive ~20k miles a year. 2015 70D, 51k miles in January '18.

Original assessment was $46,500. New assessment is $45,150
Total tax savings: $61.69

I'll try not to spend it all in one place.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I have the trade in value that Tesla offered on my P85+ @ $44K with 75,000 miles... wonder if they will honor that..

 

[gnuarm]

The whole car tax thing is why I'm registering my model X in South Carolina. I live in enough different places I can pretty much pick where I live. SC is the lowest tax for the car. I think it caps at $600 or something like that.

 

[JST]

The whole car tax thing is why I'm registering my model X in South Carolina. I live in enough different places I can pretty much pick where I live. SC is the lowest tax for the car. I think it caps at $600 or something like that.

I mean, if you want to get technical, you owe VA property tax if you *garage* the car in VA, whether or not you register it in VA. I got an assessment when I worked here over the summer, even though my car had Michigan tags.

As a practical matter, you can probably avoid VA car tax if you park the car off the street in a garage, but at that point you’re not so much miminizing tax liability through clever registration as just evading tax law.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I mean, if you want to get technical, you owe VA property tax if you *garage* the car in VA, whether or not you register it in VA. I got an assessment when I worked here over the summer, even though my car had Michigan tags.

As a practical matter, you can probably avoid VA car tax if you park the car off the street in a garage, but at that point you’re not so much miminizing tax liability through clever registration as just evading tax law.

Thats all I have to do... time to clean the garage out.... Save me $3400 a year to pay for all those that don't pay... $625 per head of household goes here

 

[Chickenlittle]

Funny just recieved my property tax bill. I have always been amazed by how little my model X and X depreciated for the purpose of property tax assessment. I was shocked to see my Mosel 3 property tax was A THIRD what my 25 month old modelX is. This despite two years of depreciation of the modelX. The original cost of the model X was only 50% more. There is no rational to justify the high cost related to how they calculate depreciation on the model X

On a separate note, tesla can help us reduce the property tax. We should get two receipts for the car. The first for the physical car which would be used for tax purposes. The second should be for software related to autopilot which would not be taxed

 

[DFibRL8R]

On a separate note, tesla can help us reduce the property tax. We should get two receipts for the car. The first for the physical car which would be used for tax purposes. The second should be for software related to autopilot which would not be taxed

I strongly agree, we should not be taxed year after year on options such as software upgrades, wheels, paint, audio systems etc etc. I think an argument can even be made for the battery pack since it is technically an optional upgrade over the base model and (for the Model 3) is NOT encoded in the VIN (unlike the AWD or Performance).

I am interested in the assessed value that Fairfax charged you @Chickenlittle for the 3. Did they include options such as upgraded wheels or your destination charge in calculating the assessed value? As I outlined in an earlier post, Fairfax County property tax appeal
Loudoun County (incorrectly in my opinion) assessed my Model 3 at $51,750 (calculated at 90% of what I paid for the car including options and destination fee). At the time there was no listing for Model 3 in the NADA guide but there is now:
New 2018 Tesla Motors Model 3 Sedan MSRP Prices
With the base RWD Model 3 listed at $49,000, the D at $53k and the P at $64k. As we know, the current long range Model 3 is not truly the "base model". Once the standard range comes out, the base model should be listed as $35k. I appealed the calculation from Loudoun but was denied. I plan to re-appeal (better case now that NADA has listed a true "base price" for the LR Model 3) but I will wait to see if the SR Model 3 gets listed by NADA as a base model first before I escalate this.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I would love for a hotshot lawyer to do a class action lawsuit for this. I get screwed every year.. one year I had 3 Model S's and really got nailed...

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I strongly agree, we should not be taxed year after year on options such as software upgrades, wheels, paint, audio systems etc etc. I think an argument can even be made for the battery pack since it is technically an optional upgrade over the base model and (for the Model 3) is NOT encoded in the VIN (unlike the AWD or Performance).

I am interested in the assessed value that Fairfax charged you @Chickenlittle for the 3. Did they include options such as upgraded wheels or your destination charge in calculating the assessed value? As I outlined in an earlier post, Fairfax County property tax appeal
Loudoun County (incorrectly in my opinion) assessed my Model 3 at $51,750 (calculated at 90% of what I paid for the car including options and destination fee). At the time there was no listing for Model 3 in the NADA guide but there is now:
New 2018 Tesla Motors Model 3 Sedan MSRP Prices
With the base RWD Model 3 listed at $49,000, the D at $53k and the P at $64k. As we know, the current long range Model 3 is not truly the "base model". Once the standard range comes out, the base model should be listed as $35k. I appealed the calculation from Loudoun but was denied. I plan to re-appeal (better case now that NADA has listed a true "base price" for the LR Model 3) but I will wait to see if the SR Model 3 gets listed by NADA as a base model first before I escalate this.

The true base Model is for a 40 Kw Model S, but I have been nailed year after year at higher rates on the P85, P85+ and the 90D....

 

[Chickenlittle]

I strongly agree, we should not be taxed year after year on options such as software upgrades, wheels, paint, audio systems etc etc. I think an argument can even be made for the battery pack since it is technically an optional upgrade over the base model and (for the Model 3) is NOT encoded in the VIN (unlike the AWD or Performance).

I am interested in the assessed value that Fairfax charged you @Chickenlittle for the 3. Did they include options such as upgraded wheels or your destination charge in calculating the assessed value? As I outlined in an earlier post, Fairfax County property tax appeal
Loudoun County (incorrectly in my opinion) assessed my Model 3 at $51,750 (calculated at 90% of what I paid for the car including options and destination fee). At the time there was no listing for Model 3 in the NADA guide but there is now:
New 2018 Tesla Motors Model 3 Sedan MSRP Prices
With the base RWD Model 3 listed at $49,000, the D at $53k and the P at $64k. As we know, the current long range Model 3 is not truly the "base model". Once the standard range comes out, the base model should be listed as $35k. I appealed the calculation from Loudoun but was denied. I plan to re-appeal (better case now that NADA has listed a true "base price" for the LR Model 3) but I will wait to see if the SR Model 3 gets listed by NADA as a base model first before I escalate this.

I am afraid to inquire on my part. It’s interesting that Tesla’s mortal enemy gets to set the value and depreciation rates for tesla cars

 

[Volki]

Bringing this back to life again. I got a bill from Fairfax county for 3 months of ownership in 2018 which is like almost $800. I find that ridiculous that we have to pay this much. We should get tax break cuz of driving EV vehicles. I called in today and asked for if the county had any programs for EV cars. The lady I spoke with put me in hold to talk to her supervisor about but no luck smart ass supervisor said that car is expensive so you gotto pay more. I was like yes the vehicle is expensive because we keep environment clean you dumb. Anyway no luck. I think I’m going to write up an email to Fairfax county and try to speak with someone to see if they will ever do anything about this situation. So next year my tax on my vehicle will be over $3,000. That is just crazy...

 

[gnuarm]

Bringing this back to life again. I got a bill from Fairfax county for 3 months of ownership in 2018 which is like almost $800. I find that ridiculous that we have to pay this much. We should get tax break cuz of driving EV vehicles. I called in today and asked for if the county had any programs for EV cars. The lady I spoke with put me in hold to talk to her supervisor about but no luck smart ass supervisor said that car is expensive so you gotto pay more. I was like yes the vehicle is expensive because we keep environment clean you dumb. Anyway no luck. I think I’m going to write up an email to Fairfax county and try to speak with someone to see if they will ever do anything about this situation. So next year my tax on my vehicle will be over $3,000. That is just crazy...

That's why I registered my car in South Carolina. Like Virginia though, they have an EV tax because of the lack of gas tax. Next year my car will be registered in Tennessee where I will save on all taxes.

 

[Volki]

That's why I registered my car in South Carolina. Like Virginia though, they have an EV tax because of the lack of gas tax. Next year my car will be registered in Tennessee where I will save on all taxes.

I’m thinking to register my car to MD. VA sucks