Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I would join that. I am buying another used P85 same year as mine at $72,000 with less mileage than my car. No sure where $95K value came from. I'm already at 30,000 miles.
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Fairfax County property tax appeal
- Thread starter Rik
- Start date
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- Mid-Atlantic USA
AMPUP
Member
DFibRL8R
Active Member
As for the assessment going up, I have previously experienced this in Loudoun County with A Highlander Hybrid. Assessment actually went up from year 2 to 3. When I called to question, they stated the demand for the specific vehicle on the used market caused the price to increase despite an additional year of wear and tear.
Wow that's a load of BS. How would they know? They don't have data on used Tesla sales. I wouldn't say demand went up at all. But rather I'd say more cars were available due to people upgrading for the P85D and autopilot hardware. That doesn't justify the valuation increase at all. In fact, due to the flood of used cars it actually hurts our value. It should go down, never up.
Edit: my bad, I glanced over too fast and didn't see u were referring to a different car. lol I'm a bad speed reader. My point is still valid though.
DFibRL8R
Active Member
I successfully contested my 2013 and 2014 tax in Loudoun on my 60kWh.
My 2013 assessment (new car) was 85,410 (4Kmore than I paid for the car!)
My 2014 assessment was 58,050
In October I requested an adjustment of both. Since there was no N.A.D.A. pricing guide available for the Tesla, it was simply a matter of finding the base price/MSRP of the vehicle plus battery and applying a 90% discount for it's first year and a 75% discount for the second.
As a result, my 2013 tax was calculated by the $57,400 "Standard Vehicle Price" printed on the sticker plus 10k for the 60kwh battery = $67,400 assessment. That $67,400 was then multiplied by 90% to give $60,660 to calculate my 2013 tax. (The standard vehicle price was lower back then because the 40kWh battery was still an option).
The 2014 tax was calculated by taking the same assessed new value ($67,400) and multiplying by 75% since it was now 2 years old= $50,550.
I have yet to receive my assessment for 2015. The 2013 60kWh is still not listed in the NADA guide online (2013 only lists a value for the p85).
New & Used Electric Prices & Values - NADAguides
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The point is the tax assessors to be "fair" use a published standard to assess value. This is the N.A.D.A. guide. The guide does not list any 2012 models and only lists the p85 for 2013 leaving those with a 60 or standard 85 requiring some other form of calculation (see my above post). For 2014, there is a "base" which is the 60kWh, listed at $69,900 or a "performance" for $93,400. The base has an option to add the 10k for the 85kWh battery.
My take is if you are unfortunate enough to own the exact model listed in the guide, it will be a tougher fight. The unlisted models seem to get a break and if you have one you should definitely consider filing an appeal.
In my opinion, using a guide that is published by N.A.D.A. who has sued Tesla to block sales raises a serious concern about fairness in the listed values and perhaps provides an opportunity for official challenge of the numbers. I would really like to see Tesla give customers the option to buy the car in a single transaction and the battery in a separate transaction (subject to one time sales tax only) to make the taxes more reasonable. If (when?) Tesla allows 60kWh owners to upgrade to a larger pack on their used Model S, the cost of the new battery would not be taxed every year (similar to adding an upgraded aftermarket premium stereo system).
My 2013 assessment (new car) was 85,410 (4Kmore than I paid for the car!)
My 2014 assessment was 58,050
In October I requested an adjustment of both. Since there was no N.A.D.A. pricing guide available for the Tesla, it was simply a matter of finding the base price/MSRP of the vehicle plus battery and applying a 90% discount for it's first year and a 75% discount for the second.
As a result, my 2013 tax was calculated by the $57,400 "Standard Vehicle Price" printed on the sticker plus 10k for the 60kwh battery = $67,400 assessment. That $67,400 was then multiplied by 90% to give $60,660 to calculate my 2013 tax. (The standard vehicle price was lower back then because the 40kWh battery was still an option).
The 2014 tax was calculated by taking the same assessed new value ($67,400) and multiplying by 75% since it was now 2 years old= $50,550.
I have yet to receive my assessment for 2015. The 2013 60kWh is still not listed in the NADA guide online (2013 only lists a value for the p85).
New & Used Electric Prices & Values - NADAguides
- - - Updated - - -
- - - Updated - - -
The point is the tax assessors to be "fair" use a published standard to assess value. This is the N.A.D.A. guide. The guide does not list any 2012 models and only lists the p85 for 2013 leaving those with a 60 or standard 85 requiring some other form of calculation (see my above post). For 2014, there is a "base" which is the 60kWh, listed at $69,900 or a "performance" for $93,400. The base has an option to add the 10k for the 85kWh battery.
My take is if you are unfortunate enough to own the exact model listed in the guide, it will be a tougher fight. The unlisted models seem to get a break and if you have one you should definitely consider filing an appeal.
In my opinion, using a guide that is published by N.A.D.A. who has sued Tesla to block sales raises a serious concern about fairness in the listed values and perhaps provides an opportunity for official challenge of the numbers. I would really like to see Tesla give customers the option to buy the car in a single transaction and the battery in a separate transaction (subject to one time sales tax only) to make the taxes more reasonable. If (when?) Tesla allows 60kWh owners to upgrade to a larger pack on their used Model S, the cost of the new battery would not be taxed every year (similar to adding an upgraded aftermarket premium stereo system).
See post #45 with details I received back from the county. Fairfax County property tax appeal - Page 5
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Having NADA involved with TESLA is an OCI in my business. Obviousl Conflict of Interest.
I believe they should use the Tesla Formula on trade in.
I believe they should use the Tesla Formula on trade in.
AMPUP
Member
I appealed my $95k tax assessment today, if they reject I'll try the legal route. Win or lose its worth the publicity at this point, cus this is horsesh!t.
I need to challenge as well. Is the process listed on the form? In my case they think the car (which I no longer own) is worth more than I sold it for, by a decent margin.
paulkva
part of the supercharge.info dev team
According to this page:
Car Values for Tax Assessment Purposes- Fairfax County, Virginia
...there's a form to appeal your assessment based on above-average mileage or below-average condition:
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dta/pdf_files/ppappeal.pdf
...and then there's contact info for "valuation questions":
e-mail [email protected] or call 703-222-8234
I have an email to that address drafted & will probably send it later today.
AMPUP
Member
DFibRL8R
Active Member
I doubt if you totaled your Model S your insurance would pay you 95k for your loss. It seems like the assessment value for tax purposes should be no greater than the assigned value from an insurance loss standpoint. Should be much less since options like tech packages/upgraded rims etc are generally excluded from tax assessment value but should be covered by insurance.
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Forgot to mention that the sale included options, additional wheel and tires as well. So fairfax's estimate is further off.
paulkva
part of the supercharge.info dev team
I just got an email from Fairfax County stating that my assessment was adjusted to $78,660, and my amount owed is reduced to $3,066.08. And an apology for the error. Much more reasonable IMHO.
AMPUP
Member
Good news, I haven't heard yet but sent my email to Mr Greenlief, let's hope I get something similar
AMPUP
Member
So I heard back, it's better for 2014 than 2015, believe it or not. As follows this is what I received:
'The $95,000 assessed value for tax year 2014 was obtained from the 2014 Edition of the Black Book CPI (Cars of Particular Interest). However, the value used was not as of January 1, 2014. Therefore, because the average trade-in value as of January 1, 2014 was not available, we are changing the assessment for your vehicle based on 90% of MSRP in order to remain uniform in our assessment methodology. We use 95% for first year models and 90% for second year models. NADA is showing that the MSRP based on the VIN pattern of your Model S Performance Tesla vehicle is $84,900, so we are reducing the assessment amount from $95,000 to $76,410. .
Please note however that this change is being done simply out of concern for uniformity. While this complies with our statutory mandate, it is evident from the year-to-date information that this is in actuality giving you a below market break for tax year 2014. NADA’s market information indicates a 4th quarter value for 2014 of $93,500. As of January 1, 2015, the Black Book pricing guide reflects an average trade-in value of $88,100. This value will be used as the basis for your 2015 assessment. It does not reflect value appreciation over the 2014 assessment, but rather that the uniform methodology appears to have understated the market value in the first year to your benefit.'
So looks like I'll get s##%##% this year.
'The $95,000 assessed value for tax year 2014 was obtained from the 2014 Edition of the Black Book CPI (Cars of Particular Interest). However, the value used was not as of January 1, 2014. Therefore, because the average trade-in value as of January 1, 2014 was not available, we are changing the assessment for your vehicle based on 90% of MSRP in order to remain uniform in our assessment methodology. We use 95% for first year models and 90% for second year models. NADA is showing that the MSRP based on the VIN pattern of your Model S Performance Tesla vehicle is $84,900, so we are reducing the assessment amount from $95,000 to $76,410. .
Please note however that this change is being done simply out of concern for uniformity. While this complies with our statutory mandate, it is evident from the year-to-date information that this is in actuality giving you a below market break for tax year 2014. NADA’s market information indicates a 4th quarter value for 2014 of $93,500. As of January 1, 2015, the Black Book pricing guide reflects an average trade-in value of $88,100. This value will be used as the basis for your 2015 assessment. It does not reflect value appreciation over the 2014 assessment, but rather that the uniform methodology appears to have understated the market value in the first year to your benefit.'
So looks like I'll get s##%##% this year.
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Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I think I know where some of the money goes - looks like the school board gave themselves a nice 100% raise in 2015 and the board of supervisors all got $20K raises this year -- funny, my wife is a teacher and she got a proposed 1% increase. Not bad pay for attending a couple of meetings part-time per year as a board member.
Now I know why the FBI setup the Northern Virginia Public Corruption Hotline at 703-686-6225 and e-mail at [email protected].
Now I know why the FBI setup the Northern Virginia Public Corruption Hotline at 703-686-6225 and e-mail at [email protected].
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AMPUP
Member
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
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