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Falcon Door Collided with Front Door

Discussion in 'Model X' started by CmdrThor, May 26, 2016.

  1. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    I read all the back and forth between pretty much everyone and jmwang regarding the front doors and falcon doors opening at the same time in {Resolved-Yes!} Can Front and Falcon Wing Doors (FWD) be open simultaneously?. That was all well before I received my Model X. Today I can definitively say that the front door and falcon door CAN collide if they are closed at the exact correct time.

    I had just parked and plugged in at work and one of my coworkers stopped to check out the car. Her son is in my son's daycare class so I wanted to show off the Falcon Doors and how well it works with our car seat and such. When I was done I pressed the inside switch to close the passenger side Falcon Door and then pulled the inside handle of the front passenger door to show how it closes by itself. And then *WHACK* they collided. The Falcon Door continued closing and the front door stopped a few inches open.

    As far as I can tell there is no damage. But it was a lesson learned that one does need to be careful when closing both doors at the same time.
     
    • Informative x 11
  2. Seesaw

    Seesaw Member

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    Hopefully a software upgrade could prevent that happening in the future. If the car knows where each door is in relation to each other it could pause or slow one of the doors to prevent a collision
     
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  3. Xtatic

    Xtatic Member

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    I had the same issue once. The doors didn't fully collide but the handles did right when they reached the last few inches of their closing arch. Ever since, I make sure I close the front door first or that my daughter closes hwe FWD first. If you hapeen to be in a parking spot that doesn't allow the front door to open completely you can see how close the FWD passes the front door when opening up ... that is quite a white knuckle experience for me! I'm glad there was no damage though.

    Since you mention you have car seats I'd like to ask you a question: are you car seats installed with the latch or with the seat belt? I ask that because until the latest firmware update access to the third row was working like a charm with the car seats installed in the second row. However, after the firmware, there's absolutely no access to the third row unless I unbuckle the car seats!!! With the car seats secured the seat doesn't even move (only the middle seat and the front seat move but no movement in the seat with the car seat installed) At the SC they told me it is because of the new safety checks they added to the seats of the second row to prevent the seat being moved while someone was sitting on them. However, for me it is unacceptable that I have to be buckling/unbuckling both car seats multiple times a day to have access to the third row when one of the features most advertised was the ease of access to the third row even in the presence of car seats in the second one. The SC keeps telling me they have raised the issue with the engineers but have had no answer yet but I'm wondering if maybe I'm the only one with this problem and it is something that can be fixed without a firmware update that may never happen. Any insight will be appreciated!

    Thanks!
     
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  4. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    I use a seat belt to secure a rear facing car seat in the middle seat second row (as there is no LATCH for the middle seat). I am still able to access the third row from either side although I haven't had a firmware update I know of in several weeks. It is possible the service center installed it while my paint was getting fixed a week and a half ago. I'm pretty sure the middle seat still slides forward a bit but I'll check when I'm in my car next.
     
  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    There is no detectable damage but they "collided" and went "WHACK"?

    My suggestion is that "collided" is the wrong word to use in that situation. If two moving metal objects impact yet show no signs of damage, a better word would be "contacted" or "brushes".

    A less attention-seeking and more accurate thread title would be "Falcon Door Contacts Front Door but No Damage" or "Falcon Door Brushes Front Door but No Damage".
     
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  6. Zextraterrestrial

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    ok, that is just a bad design/engineering if it is actually possible.
    At least software could somewhat mitigate the design but not 100%
     
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  7. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    I'm curious to see how this could have happened. I had previously convinced myself that the falcon wing door arc can never cross into the front door arc. And that's how it should have been designed anyway. The primary hinge looks to be set up in a way that should work fine, so maybe there's a minor issue with the design of the secondary hinge. How is the alignment on the doors? Maybe they just didn't design in enough play/tolerance to account for assembly imperfection.
     
  8. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    It was a collision that caused the front door to stop moving and there was an audible WHACK. It was actually embarrassing as I was showing off the car. I am not seeking attention, just wanting to point out that it IS possible. Have you read the Wiki entry exclaiming in all caps that IT IS NOT POSSIBLE!! ? Well here I am reporting that it is. And it looks like from the replies at least one other person has had it happen as well.
     
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  9. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    It's not possible, unless, your doors are misaligned.
     
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  10. Xtatic

    Xtatic Member

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    Thanks for your reply! Both my seats are in the seats by the windows, I don't know if that makes a difference. I will try moving one of the seats to the middle seat and see what happens. I'm not sure though the car seat will fit there but I'll try nonetheless. Thanks!
     
  11. vangogh

    vangogh Member

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    I think the doors in question are probably misaligned...I've noticed that some fwd do not close perfectly into place but myy be slightly out of place and then are pulled into proper position during the final close motion. (sometimes you can see areas of wear on the inside of the door jams where intial contact is made). In thee cases, I could envision the two doors contacting each other if the timing was perfect...
     
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  12. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    I'll never understand the obsessive need for some on here to manage the message. It's incredibly pedantic and fanboy-ish. The doors collided. Maybe next time they will do damage?
     
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  13. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    I think you're onto something. FWd could be operating within tolerances which are not detrimental to their operation (four hinges and length of the the door magnify misalignment) but could cause edge of Fwd to encroach into the space of the front door. After all they do come very close together when closed.

    However, if that's the case, like @Seesaw said above, Tesla needs to program front door not to get in a way or have FWd to stop if front door is not open wide enough.
     
  14. aija SigX 649

    aija SigX 649 Winged Lion

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    I contend that if one adds up the tolerances in all of the moving parts involved in this complex door dance that this scenario is indeed possible! Operating the doors on a slopped driveway/roadway exacerbates the issue.
     
  15. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    I spoke too soon on there not being any damage. I didn't see it in the dim light of the parking garage but the front door window did knick my PPF on the Falcon Door. Thankfully it is just the film and likely no paint damage, but at least I have evidence for the non believers.

    I tried to manually get the Falcon Door in position where this would happen again but I was unable to do so. There's so many variables on the doors opening and closing though it is very difficult to reproduce.
     

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  16. Roentgen

    Roentgen Member

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    I had/have the same issue. It's definitely the sensor, as you can see on the car display screen, there's an exclamation point where the culprit car seat is - I think it's assuming someone is there and not belted in, as the SC person said.

    Try this: Shift the car seat around a little (with no kid in it hopefully). Give it a hefty shove left and/or right. Then activate the easy access seat adjustment again - should work fine... I only have this issue with the driver's side middle row seat. The pass side seems to ignore the car seat fine.
     
  17. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    Another update, just heard back from my service center and the factory has been able to reproduce the collision and it is now a matter of customer education that a collision is possible if the doors close in just the right manner.
     
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  18. ReturnZero

    ReturnZero Member

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    Perhaps this is wishful thinking, but hopefully if they can identify the positions that collide (which it sounds like they have) they can program the doors to never be in those positions at the same time. Slow one down or make the FWD follow a different path if this scenario is detected.
     
  19. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    Actually, I'd say it's a matter of a design change that is needed in future builds to allow for more slop between the doors. Education for the early cars perhaps (though a software work around would be better). Everything down to the angle at which you are parked and the thickness of the paint come into play here. I'd put blame on a young engineer who engineered it to theoretical without allowing enough slop for reality. Real life is sloppy and you have to account for that in your design. Whoever that engineer is, they won't make that mistake again.

    If my assumptions are correct about Tesla having a young engineering team (and they might not be), this is actually one of the few advantages other car manufacturers have over Tesla -- more experienced engineers. Not smarter, just more experienced. They've already moved past those kind of mistakes.
     
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  20. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    They really said that? So YOU were doing it wrong - I think it's time to open Tesla University. Unbelievable.

    I sure hope that they say that to buy some time to fix it with software.
     

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