Falcon Super Heavy/Starship - General Development Discussion

[ecarfan]

basically it can take years to compact the soil to stabilize the ground to accept heavy loads.

Yes, I had read that in several sources recently. And think about the type of soil in that area; just a few feet above sea level, a high water table, then imagine the quantity of concrete and equipment that is going to be placed on top of it for a massive launch pad.

 

[bxr140]

Interesting but wouldn't that suffer from the same problem of potential misidentification that commercial rocket-based transport has, only worse?

There really is no misidentification when it comes to peacetime rockets, and that includes black missions. All satellite launches are very well communicated amongst state players; most know exactly what's going on even without that communication. Its hard to prepare any of the heavy lifters in secrecy anyway, but its actually the smaller ex-ICBM rockets which are even more of a BFD. Dnepr is more or less a Satan, Minotaur is basically a Peacekeeper, etc. You don't want to go hucking one of them into the sky without telling your 'friends' around the world what you're up to...

There's also some treaty obligations (at least until our Idiot In Chief nukes them, as it were...) to share at least some level of status amongst the nuclear powers. Driving around Baikonur at night, for instance, every once and a while you pass a glow coming from the desert floor--sometimes that glow is coming from lights inside an empty silo. They open the doors every so often to prove, through American observation satellites ,that the silos are in fact empty.

 

[Buckminster]

Elon is thinking of calling the BFR "Heart of Gold". Discussed on Recode interview.

 

[ecarfan]

SpaceX's next big BFR spaceship part finished in Port of LA tent facility

QUOTE: “The first 9-meter (29.5-foot) diameter composite propellant tank dome for SpaceX’s full-scale BFR spaceship prototype has been spotted more or less complete at the company’s temporary Port of Los Angeles facility, unambiguous evidence that SpaceX is continuing to rapidly fabricate major components of its next-generation rocket.”
————————————————————————————-

The photos aren’t very clear to me, but this is more exciting news showing SpaceX continues to rapidly construct major pieces of the BFR.

 

[HVM]

Good news everyone! BFR have a new RADICAL and COUNTER-INTUiTIVE(^2) design!

Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk

"Btw, SpaceX is no longer planning to upgrade Falcon 9 second stage for reusability. Accelerating BFR instead. New design is very exciting! Delightfully counter-intuitive."
...
"Radical change"

 

[mongo]

Hummm....
Will Mars BFS be single stage to fuel transfer orbit, with BFR purely a tanker?
Possibly with a single stage cargo BFR?
(Pardon the total lack of any calculations before posting, going for what a radical change would be)

 

[RDoc]

Hummm....
Will Mars BFS be single stage to fuel transfer orbit, with BFR purely a tanker?
Possibly with a single stage cargo BFR?
(Pardon the total lack of any calculations before posting, going for what a radical change would be)

That is EXTREMELY doubtful.

 

[mongo]

That is EXTREMELY doubtful.

Yah, I get that. I has forgotten the refueling was done with a tanker BFS, so was thinking of first stage sizing...
Still though, for a high mass lift, does a single stage to fueling orbit BFR make sense vs a BFR plus tanker BFS? What is the mass vs delta v trade off if you drop the entire second stage but carry along the extra first stage engines and shell? Only one recovery, no remounting needed.

Biggest percentage hit would be the return since you need to slow down the entire mass sans payload.

Can't think of anything else that would be radical/ counter intuitive.

Edit: ok, just did. Final refuel BFR remates with BFS and is used to start it on its way. Probably a major fuel save for BFS and may reduce tank size.

 

[ecarfan]

Elon has renamed the BFR/BFS to “Super Heavy” (the booster) and “Starship” (upper stage for cargo and crew).

I love it! Starship is inspirational and exciting. Sure, it will never take humans to a nearby star in its current form. But it will be the first vehicle to make human life multiplanetary, hopefully, and that is a major step towards reaching the stars.

 

[mongo]

Hopefully soon, Mr Jefferson will be movin on up!

 

[thenaimis]

I thought the name rather dull, personally, but I am curious what the latest radical redesign is all about. Probably not so radical that they're going to throw away the parts they've already manufactured.

 

[AudubonB]

TL;Doesn't Fit:

As I shared on the "Market Action" thread yesterday, here is why I've just been flummoxed:

 

[Cosmacelf]

Well, the spaceship part is called “Starship” but they are reusable. So each one is going to have a name. So, my guess is the first one will be be called Starship Heart of Gold. The first infinite improbability drive spaceship. Technology in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Wikipedia

 

[AudubonB]

It would be a truly magnificent name.

However,

SS HOG

would be a truly wretched license plate

 

[Nikxice]

From Elon, "Renaming BFR to Starship". Sounds great, but time will tell on the stickiness. The two mated stages will certainly look like a BFR. Could someone successfully rename the Titantic? Not convinced the BFR acronym can escape Earth's deep gravity well. If it looks like a BFR, flies like a BFR, and quacks like a BFR, then it probably is a BFR!

 

[ecarfan]

I thought the name rather dull, personally, but I am curious what the latest radical redesign is all about. Probably not so radical that they're going to throw away the parts they've already manufactured.

Based on what I’ve read, what SpaceX is working on in Long Beach is primarily building the fuel tanks.
SpaceX's next big BFR spaceship part finished in Port of LA tent facility

So the other sections, like the tail and control surfaces, could change quite a bit from the designs Elon has shown publicly without negating the work that has been done so far.

 

[RDoc]

So what is he going to name SpaceX's actual interstellar ship if Starship is already taken?

 

[RDoc]

Elon is thinking of calling the BFR "Heart of Gold". Discussed on Recode interview.

Will the next one be named "Cinnamon Girl"?

 

[e-FTW]

So, I cannot help but be concerned. Eric from Ars pretty much wrote what I am thinking: What is going on with SpaceX and all these Big Falcon Rocket changes?

• US Air Force awards between 0.5 and 1 billion dollars to ULA, Northrop-Gruman and Blue Origins.
• SpaceX gets nothing
• SpaceX is then said to be looking for a loan of that scale
• Then, SpaceX is said to have scaled back the loan to $250 million because investors would ask for too much collateral
• Elon now shopping ideas and designs to make this big rocket work (financially)

I want it to go to the stars!
But the stars seem out of alignment at the moment.

Am I being too pessimistic?

 

[ecarfan]

For those who are unclear on what @e-FTW is referring to, see this article by Eric Berger What is going on with SpaceX and all these Big Falcon Rocket changes?

@e-FTW I am not as concerned as you appear to be. Yes, making the Super Heavy / Starship vehicle a reality is going to be the biggest challenge SpaceX has ever tackled, in my opinion. But based on SpaceX’s history of surmounting obstacles I have confidence the company can do it.

There will be failures along the way, and some people may lose their lives. The challenges are off the scale in terms of difficulty. But there are no scientific principles that have to be violated to achieve success. Science and reason will show that a vehicle of this size and level of complexity can be built and flown successfully.