Wiki Super Heavy/Starship - General Development Discussion

[Cosmacelf]

It also seems that there will be specialized Starships. The current Starship with pez dispenser would not appear to be able to perform any other role than Starlink deployments.

Yes, and since they are massively reusable, this makes a lot of sense. In theory, they’d only have to make two pez dispensers varieties or so.

 

[JRP3]

Pez dispenser going live soon?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1523991824154644480

 

[adiggs]

It'd be pretty awesome if the first orbit test of Starship brought along a few starlink satellites to leave behind

 

[mongo]

It'd be pretty awesome if the first orbit test of Starship brought along a few starlink satellites to leave behind

Yeah, but if the test is sub one orbit to guarantee a HI landing, could the Starlinks get to orbit? Given that a solar storm expanded the atmosphere enough to prevent orbit raise, I'm doubtful.
Unless the dispenser imparts a lot of delta-v, or they retro brake.
I definitely expect something to get dispensed, but it may only be physical/ mass simulators.

 

[ecarfan]

It'd be pretty awesome if the first orbit test of Starship brought along a few starlink satellites to leave behind

I will be very surprised if the first orbital mission includes any Starlink sats. Why risk millions of dollars of sats on a clean sheet new design vehicle and payload dispenser, and that has never reached orbit? I think Elon has stated his personal assessment is 50% chance that Starship reaches orbit intact. Lower chance it will remain intact enough to make a soft landing in the ocean.

I would build three dummy sats; same approximate size and weight, zero valuable electronics, and try out the dispenser mechanism to see how it performs in zero g.

 

[EVCollies]

It also seems that there will be specialized Starships. The current Starship with pez dispenser would not appear to be able to perform any other role than Starlink deployments.

Any chance a Pez dispenser could release a plate of cubesats for a rideshare?

 

[adiggs]

I will be very surprised if the first orbital mission includes any Starlink sats. Why risk millions of dollars of sats on a clean sheet new design vehicle and payload dispenser, and that has never reached orbit? I think Elon has stated his personal assessment is 50% chance that Starship reaches orbit intact. Lower chance it will remain intact enough to make a soft landing in the ocean.

I would build three dummy sats; same approximate size and weight, zero valuable electronics, and try out the dispenser mechanism to see how it performs in zero g.

I don't expect it to happen either, and I wouldn't be surprised if the orbital mechanics makes it unworkable.

If the orbital mechanics did work out, I don't think that the cost would be an impediment to Elon if he otherwise thought it would be a good thing to try.

 

[bxr140]

Any chance a Pez dispenser could release a plate of cubesats for a rideshare?

Chance? Sure. Probability? I'd say next to zero at this point. The issue is ROI and limited SX resources. There simply aren't enough cubesats out there to make a material bottom line impact to SpaceX. Its just not worth diverting hours away from the core work streams of a) getting starship operational and b) building out the v2 constellation.

 

[ecarfan]

Useful summary of recent activity at BC and the Cape from www.nasaspaceflight.com

 

[ecarfan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535478522550136834

 

[ecarfan]

So the Super Heavy will produce 7,590 metric tons of thrust. The Saturn V first stage produced 3,402 metric tons of thrust.

 

[scaesare]

So the Super Heavy will produce 7,590 metric tons of thrust. The Saturn V first stage produced 3,402 metric tons of thrust.

Or, given that many folks are familiar with the old-skool figure for the F1 of 1.5 million pounds thrust, that totals 7.5 million pounds for the Saturn V... as compared to 16.7 million pounds of thrust for Super Heavy.

Gah!

 

[mongo]

FAA PEA is go (with 75 or so mitigations).
https://t.co/v0YV9imL0U
Now for a launch license.

After reviewing and analyzing all available data and information on existing conditions and potential impacts, as well as the mitigation identified in the PEA which SpaceX must implement, the FAA has determined the Proposed Action would not significantly affect the quality of the human environment. Therefore, the preparation of an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is not required, and the FAA is issuing this Mitigated Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI). The FAA has made this determination in accordance with applicable environmental laws and FAA regulations. The PEA is incorporated by reference into this Mitigated FONSI.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Mitigated FONSI, no power plant, no methane production on site, no desalinization plant, 10 test flights per year maximum restricted based on sea turtle nesting season.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Mitigated FONSI, no power plant, no methane production on site, no desalinization plant, 10 test flights per year maximum restricted based on sea turtle nesting season.

Doesn’t sound great?

 

[DarkandStormy]

Doesn’t sound great?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536413480042893312

SpaceX seems happy with it on Twitter.

FAA requires SpaceX to make environmental adjustments to move forward with its Starship program in Texas

The FAA said SpaceX will be required to take more than 75 actions to mitigate environmental impacts before the company can receive a launch license.

www.cnbc.com

The Federal Aviation Administration on Monday said it will require Elon Musk’s SpaceX to make dozens of environmental adjustments in order to conduct further Starship flight tests and begin operational launches from its facility in Boca Chica, Texas.

SpaceX will be required to take more than 75 actions to mitigate environmental impacts before the company can receive a launch license for the site, the FAA said in a press release. The mitigations include protections for water resources, limits to noise levels, and biohazard materials control, in addition to others.

The agency delayed its final assessment five times over the past six months as it reviewed input on the program. Its ruling Monday of a Mitigated Finding of No Significant Impact is still a partial win for SpaceX, saving the company from a more lengthy review of its operations, known as an Environmental Impact Statement.

 

[ecarfan]

Doesn’t sound great?

Well, the FAA could have put even more stringent conditions on the FONSI, or even decided not to allow any launches at all.

But as @mongo pointed out, SpaceX still have not received a launch license.

Some interesting info from this article in Ars Technica

SpaceX’s Starship launch plan gets an environmental OK from the feds​

The FAA's final environmental assessment was made significantly easier because SpaceX amended its plans to delete three major components of the launch facility. The first of these would take commercially supplied methane and eliminate some impurities to generate a fuel compatible with the company's Raptor engines. But changes to those engines have made them capable of operating with commercial-grade methane, eliminating the need for this facility.

The other major eliminations were a desalination facility and a power plant that would be needed to operate it. The water produced by it would be used to limit the spread of flaming exhaust during launch. SpaceX removed these because it remains uncertain whether a water quench will be required during launches; if it is, it will be handled with water trucked to the site.

 

[mongo]

Doesn’t sound great?

Actually, it's fine, ignore the fuddy duddy.
SpaceX were the ones that removed the extra equipment from the request due to not needing it.

Removed construction and operation of the desalination plant, natural gas pretreatment system, liquefier, and power plant. SpaceX removed this infrastructure from its proposal in response to public and agency comments and other developments.
o The desalination plant was included in the draft PEA because it would have been used to facilitate deluge for the launch pad. SpaceX is still considering whether to use deluge water for the launch pad, but, in the event it will, it has decided that it will use truck water, rather than a desalination plant. A desalination plant is not in the reasonably foreseeable future.
o The natural gas pretreatment system and liquefier are no longer needed due to advances in the design and capabilities of SpaceX’s Raptor engines. Previously, additional refinement of methane to purer levels than commercially available was anticipated to be needed. However, as a result of engine advances, SpaceX can rely on commercially available methane without refinement. Accordingly, SpaceX is no longer proposing a natural gas pretreatment system and liquefier.
o Because SpaceX is no longer proposing a desalination plant, natural gas pretreatment system, and liquefier, SpaceX does not require a power plant

5 launches a year for each of Super Heavy and Starship were all they applied for. Note: the application was from when they were planning Starship only launches which they have since cancelled.

The 75 items bring things better in line with local regs and wildlife protection and include things like litter control and grass mowing.

 

[ecarfan]

The 75 items bring things better in line with local regs and wildlife protection and include things like litter control and grass mowing.

I didn’t know there were any lawns at Starbase.

 

[mongo]

I didn’t know there were any lawns at Starbase.

Roadside maintenance