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FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

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FlasherZ-thanks for this great resource. A question for you. I'm running Romex 6/3 plus ground to a 14-50 outlet in an attached garage. The breaker box is in the garage. From the breaker box the wire goes vertically into the wall, then comes out of the wall (via a metal box), into flexible metal conduit, up the wall, turns 90 degrees to go across the ceiling, turns 90 degrees to go down another wall, out of the conduit back into the wall (via another metal box) and to the outlet. Is it okay for that wire to be in the conduit? I get from your FAQs that it can be, as long as it is not outside. A friend got advice that the Romex should not be in conduit due to heat build up and that the sheath on the wiring is sufficient to protect it from damage. Putting the wiring in the wall and ceiling is not a practical option, too many joists to cross as there is living space above. On one wall the wiring in conduit is within 7' of the slab, though it doesn't have to be (it could go into the wall higher up). Thanks for your advice.

This is probably one of the most confusing areas of the NEC.

First, the sheath on NM cable is not sufficient to protect it against damage if "accessible", typically considered below 7'. You can legally run NM cable on the surface of walls and ceilings above 7' and inspectors won't complain too much. That said, I like to protect it any time it's not inside walls or ceilings.

Where it gets fuzzy is conduit fill rules. These rules require conduit to be properly sized to protect against heat build-up, and require the NM cable to be considered as a single conductor, and the conduit would have a fill limit of 53% -- this means the area of the conduit must be 47% greater than the area of the NM cable. For 6/3, it means a minimum of 1" conduit. Now, here's where the uncertainty comes in -- the informational notes say that conduit used as a sleeve to protect cable against damage doesn't count in terms of fill rules -- but there is nothing that specifies the characteristics of where a protective sleeve ends and a full raceway/conduit system starts.

It is true that if, at any point, the conduit runs underground or outside, that NM cable cannot be used because it's rated for dry locations only.

The bottom line here is that what you describe, I believe, is fully legal and reasonable if the conduit is 1". There may be questions if it's only 3/4" conduit, but in that case I'd applaud your ability to pull a 650 mil cable through a 750 mil conduit without too many swearwords. :)

Finally, it should be noted that this is an area where local amendments frequently apply, so contact your local city / county inspector. In Chicago, for example, it's illegal to use NM cable at all.
 
I checked my city's code. The city has adopted the 2008 NEC with some amendments, but the amendments do not mention conduits, wire sizes or cable type in any context that is relevant.

Very honestly, you should be okay with #6 NM inside that conduit purely for protection purposes. Did you pull a permit and have it inspected (typically you need to when you do such work), and did it pass?
 
Very honestly, you should be okay with #6 NM inside that conduit purely for protection purposes. Did you pull a permit and have it inspected (typically you need to when you do such work), and did it pass?

I have a copy of the Constitution in my desk. Interestingly, I recalled this particular clause to be broader, but one passage says no person shall "be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself . . .." It's what is commonly referred to as Taking the Fifth, which I respectfully do here. :wink:

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Darmok, if your install is done could you post some pictures?


It is done, and I think I can post a couple of pictures. How do you do those little clickable thumbnails?
 
Little clickable thumbnails? hmmm, not sure.
I was just hoping to see as many pictures of various installs as possible as I am planning my own install-- and want to get as many ideas as possible.

My electrician said that this particular type of install doesn't require a permit - although that advice may vary by jurisdiction obviously.

He did say that if I was going to upgrade service to my house, or run a sufficiently large sub-panel, that may require a permit.
 
I have a few pictures on my phone...

Here is the top of the breaker panel, an access panel cut into the drywall because of really funky stud work, and the box with the conduit attached:

photo.JPG


Here is where the wire exits the conduit and goes back into the wall, down to the outlet, together with pilot holes some bozo kept drilling because the stud finder was being all wonky; said bozo might get around to filling them eventually:

photo 2.JPG


Here is the outlet:

photo.JPG
 
Little clickable thumbnails? hmmm, not sure.
I was just hoping to see as many pictures of various installs as possible as I am planning my own install-- and want to get as many ideas as possible.

My electrician said that this particular type of install doesn't require a permit - although that advice may vary by jurisdiction obviously.

He did say that if I was going to upgrade service to my house, or run a sufficiently large sub-panel, that may require a permit.

It definitely varies - especially a few counties east of me, where there is no such thing as a "permit" or "inspection". :)

Typically, though, the addition of a circuit to an existing panel does require a permit and inspection in most jurisdictions. Just a quick search on "permit required for adding additional circuits" in Google will return a number of permitting information sites. This isn't dictated by the NEC, but rather by each local zoning and building authority -- and sometimes by state law. So check with your city hall or county office.

(In some jurisdictions, if it is found that you did electrical work without a permit -- even after selling your home -- you can be required to pay for the permit fees, a penalty fee, and inspection. And there have been rare cases in which an entire home had to be brought to the current code at seller's expense after a long history of improper wiring practices without permits.)

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That flexible conduit should be attached to the wall/framing members within 12 inches of exiting that box, and where it makes the corner onto the ceiling, if it's not. I didn't see a clamp but maybe I didn't look close enough. I'm really surprised he just didn't run the conduit all the way down to the outlet and surface-mount a box rather than going the last 2 feet in the wall... :/
 
That flexible conduit should be attached to the wall/framing members within 12 inches of exiting that box, and where it makes the corner onto the ceiling, if it's not. I didn't see a clamp but maybe I didn't look close enough. I'm really surprised he just didn't run the conduit all the way down to the outlet and surface-mount a box rather than going the last 2 feet in the wall... :/

Thanks. There's a clamp at the ceiling at the turn, but I'll have the guy who did the work add one at the wall. Regarding the box, the same guy thought the flush outlet cover would look neater than a surface mount box. It's also possible that it's a 25' piece of conduit and that's where the 25' ran out. :smile:
 
Alpha, here's a picture of the panel with the cover off. There were two open slots at the top, but they were horizontally across from each other, so that was no good. The top left breaker was moved to the top right, freeing up the two vertically adjacent slots that were used.

photo(2).JPG
 
Darmok, thanks for posting the pics! One question - how high off the ground is your 14-50?

One electrician told me that it should be 44" off the ground. I asked him if it could be higher (for safety as I have two toddlers in the house who like to get into things) and he was uncertain at first. He called his colleague to ask and the colleague said, no problem (that seemed like common sense to me that there should not really be a maximum height, only a minimum height...)

I think as long as it's reachable, say 5-7 feet off the ground it should be good.
I am thinking of mounting mine 7' off the ground...
 
Darmok, thanks for posting the pics! One question - how high off the ground is your 14-50?

One electrician told me that it should be 44" off the ground. I asked him if it could be higher (for safety as I have two toddlers in the house who like to get into things) and he was uncertain at first. He called his colleague to ask and the colleague said, no problem (that seemed like common sense to me that there should not really be a maximum height, only a minimum height...)

I think as long as it's reachable, say 5-7 feet off the ground it should be good.
I am thinking of mounting mine 7' off the ground...

The NEC doesn't specify a maximum height, however the ADA specifies 48" maximum heights for accessible outlets. As long as your home will never be considered a business where accessibility is required, you should be fine.
 
The NEC doesn't specify a maximum height, however the ADA specifies 48" maximum heights for accessible outlets. As long as your home will never be considered a business where accessibility is required, you should be fine.

Have you ever heard of any TR (tamper resistant) 14-50 outlets? Or other Similar child safety features? I couldn't find any at the hardware store, and nobody seems to know anything about them. Googling doesn't seem to turn up anything either. I went to the trouble to put TR outlets in the whole house on the regular 120V outlets, and the 14-50 could be a lot more dangerous than any of those (considering it has 240V on it...)
 
36" I'm adding this sentence because the post is required to have at least 5 characters in the response.

Looks like you have violated code in multiple ways. Imminent safety hazard!! The police have been notified and are trying to track you down right now!! Good thing you hid your location!

(Just kidding. You seem a little bit paranoid about this :)
 
Have you ever heard of any TR (tamper resistant) 14-50 outlets?

I have not seen any TR 14-50 outlets; then again, I haven't really looked. If you want some safety, I'd suggest installing a disconnect above the outlet, out of reach of most children, so that the outlet can be turned off when you don't want it active.
 
I have not seen any TR 14-50 outlets; then again, I haven't really looked. If you want some safety, I'd suggest installing a disconnect above the outlet, out of reach of most children, so that the outlet can be turned off when you don't want it active.

Someone here had posted a pic of a 14-50 with a spring loaded cover.