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Faraday Future Live Event
- Thread starter franklandfield
- Start date
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
When it comes to price I don't see how this car could possibly be had for less than $200,000 equipped with everything they claim. No Gigafactory to manufacture batteries, hell for that matter, no factory to build CARS! Don't get me wrong, I really hope they can succeed. I just found this painful to watch. They have a lot of really cool technology they are trying to cram into this thing. For me, it's Tesla's Model X rollout only about 100 times worse. Tesla only had issues with the doors and we all know how that played out when it came to initial deliveries. Imagine this thing and the multitude of things that could go wrong...as was demonstrated so eloquently during this presentation.
Just too many ifs in this equation. I guess Tesla had just as many ifs when the Roadster first debuted but I just don't see the long term plan in place especially financially.
Good luck Faraday Future, I really hope you make it.
Dan
Just too many ifs in this equation. I guess Tesla had just as many ifs when the Roadster first debuted but I just don't see the long term plan in place especially financially.
Good luck Faraday Future, I really hope you make it.
Dan
I really hope FF make it into production and that they meet with success in the market. Maybe when I buy my next car in 8 years they will replace the TMS but for now Tesla is by far the market leader with a proven ability to deliver in volume. 2018 will be amazing year for the EV market but 2017 is Tesla's year.
Dan43
Member
With Fords announcement and other market movements it does feel as if EVs are now established and here to stay, and Tesla could have a massive jump on the major players.
3PHASE
3PHASE
Trev Page
Member
I won't say much (outside the presentation which was a very poor attempt at being Apple-like) other than there's no way they are going to get this into production by 2018. These guys have never built a car factory before let alone a production line. Look how much trouble Tesla had in the beginning and they *bought* a factory that was in existence since the early 60s!!
The FF91 has lots of tech and whizz-bang features which will put it into $150K+ territory. Again, these guys have to start at the top, like Tesla did, and work their way down. At least they understand that. I like the idea of their VPA architecture but is it really that much better than a purpose-designed car? Time will tell.
The FF91 has lots of tech and whizz-bang features which will put it into $150K+ territory. Again, these guys have to start at the top, like Tesla did, and work their way down. At least they understand that. I like the idea of their VPA architecture but is it really that much better than a purpose-designed car? Time will tell.
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
They don't need to update it to beat the FF91... the battery pack is 130 vs 100. You can't compare the numbers until the pack is the same. Even with 30kwh extra and no interior weight, it only beat the MS by 1/10th of a second at the event.
A few others notes:
1) The car is a compromise. If you want an SUV, this has little utility or storage space. If you want an elegant sedan, this is big and bulky. It blurs the lines like a wagon, but gives up too much.
2) I didn't like that they were introducing the car to the $ behind it, YT of LeECo, and he didn't seem to understand anything about the technology, other than reading a prompter and saying "Cool."
3) The car is clearly not finished, but that's ok, the first MS prototype wasn't done either.
4) The pop up 3D LIDAR is too complicated and I can see the pop-up motor breaking just when you need it to function.
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Krugerrand
Meow
I've questioned this myself all along and now a bigly presentation with every opportunity (and several made where they shouldn't have been made) to slam or diss Tesla. Why? It's not Tesla vs FF. It's suppose to be Tesla, FF, Lucid et al vs Fossil Fuel industries destroying Mother Earth. Very not cool.
Main takeaways from this presentation:
Pushing dirt counts as completing "phase 1" of factory construction.
They have a stripped-down performance prototype that's quick and a design prototype with a max speed of about 5 MPH (if it's even self-propelled).
They are billing it as if it's ready for production when in fact it's little more than a concept.
Every decision they've made seems to be to one-up Tesla rather than to create something truly unique.
You can loan them $5000 if you want but don't expect to see it again.
Essentially they are trying to be a revolutionary company but are offering only an evolutionary product. That may work if they had an existing revenue source, but to start from scratch requires billions in disposable income. Kudos to them if they find someone willing to keep supporting them, but I don't see how any sane investor could commit to it. They'd be better off selling their concept to an existing manufacturer.
Pushing dirt counts as completing "phase 1" of factory construction.
They have a stripped-down performance prototype that's quick and a design prototype with a max speed of about 5 MPH (if it's even self-propelled).
They are billing it as if it's ready for production when in fact it's little more than a concept.
Every decision they've made seems to be to one-up Tesla rather than to create something truly unique.
You can loan them $5000 if you want but don't expect to see it again.
Essentially they are trying to be a revolutionary company but are offering only an evolutionary product. That may work if they had an existing revenue source, but to start from scratch requires billions in disposable income. Kudos to them if they find someone willing to keep supporting them, but I don't see how any sane investor could commit to it. They'd be better off selling their concept to an existing manufacturer.
trayloader
Member
One day we´ll know the real motivation behind the firing of both Sampson AND Rawlinson on the same day.
Probably it had to do with crash tests or underbody vulnerabilities (Rawlinson got his patent for improvement of the shield way after he was let go…)
Just because they had key responsibilities in the MS prototype days doesn´t necessarily qualify them for visible CEO/President whatever positions.
A brand is inseparately tied to the perception of it´s leaders character to the public.
• Both lack taste.
• Both are not esthetes by nature.
Elon on the opposite shurely is by sheerly filtering out "TEH Franz" from the vast choice of talented exterior designers.
• Sampson & Rawlinson are both stiff as hell in their presentations.
• Both do NOT trust their exterior designer but prefer an inside out engineering approach. Just look how nerdy those cars look.Completely unsexy.
Average Joe will never buy these over engineered monsters.
• Both (and especially FF/Sampson) show no resistance when it comes to staying on target for the necessity of an internationally pleasing design.They simply bent over probably to Jias etc. sheer dictatorship.
These cars look like "Manga Monsters". Premium is a different league.
Brand management an art.
After last night I finally see a chance for a German (electric) comeback or an Apple/Jonathan Ive approach.
Probably it had to do with crash tests or underbody vulnerabilities (Rawlinson got his patent for improvement of the shield way after he was let go…)
Just because they had key responsibilities in the MS prototype days doesn´t necessarily qualify them for visible CEO/President whatever positions.
A brand is inseparately tied to the perception of it´s leaders character to the public.
• Both lack taste.
• Both are not esthetes by nature.
Elon on the opposite shurely is by sheerly filtering out "TEH Franz" from the vast choice of talented exterior designers.
• Sampson & Rawlinson are both stiff as hell in their presentations.
• Both do NOT trust their exterior designer but prefer an inside out engineering approach. Just look how nerdy those cars look.Completely unsexy.
Average Joe will never buy these over engineered monsters.
• Both (and especially FF/Sampson) show no resistance when it comes to staying on target for the necessity of an internationally pleasing design.They simply bent over probably to Jias etc. sheer dictatorship.
These cars look like "Manga Monsters". Premium is a different league.
Brand management an art.
After last night I finally see a chance for a German (electric) comeback or an Apple/Jonathan Ive approach.
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Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
I reserved one for free. Any others? I created a poll in this thread: Who reserved a Faraday Future FF 91?
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Sticking a bunch of technology in a vehicle that appears designed for a Chinese fleet service...does not a Tesla competitor make. The design sort of reminds me of that failed Chinese raised roadway bus.
Chinese traffic-straddling bus hits wall of criticism - BBC News
The snake oil salesman's pitch that has permeated FF's entire publicity campaign doesn't help either.
Chinese traffic-straddling bus hits wall of criticism - BBC News
The snake oil salesman's pitch that has permeated FF's entire publicity campaign doesn't help either.
That was embarrassing.
FF seems like smoke and mirrors taken to a new level. And people criticize Elon for over promising and not meeting timeframes! FF offers so much grandiose language and then can't perform a simple low speed autonomous maneuver that surely they rehearsed hundreds of times before failing in a live presentation.
I couldn't tolerate watching that hour long presentation in real time, there was too much meaningless hyperbole. I scanned through it looking for useful information and found almost none.
I sincerely hope the company succeeds. It would be good for Tesla and good for EV adoption if the are able to build that car in quantity, even though it appears that it will cost more than a Tesla.
But by the time they do start delivering cars, Tesla will have had another three years of progress at least (I do not believe that FF will deliver any cars in 2018 since their "factory" consists of some scraped earth). Compare the late 2013 Model S to the late 2016 Model S and then envision a late 2019 Model S and X and 3.
In my opinion, FF91 is way too long. They are not going to sell many of these in Europe (that's if they make it to production)
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
There is no doubt that the FF91 will cost more than Tesla P100D Model X. Given that it perform similarly, has larger battery, a much bigger car, and no economies of scale. People should expect the base price of FF91 in the 150k to 199k range. Anything higher, people will go to a Lambo dealership instead.
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