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Faraday Future

More discussion on Faraday here: Faraday Future - Page 15

Apparently the concept leaked. Their event starts at 8 PST.

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tinm

2020 Model S LR+ Owner
May 3, 2015
2,463
12,331
New Mexico, USA
That Faraday car: Batmobile. Toy for the one-percenters. Not practical. Meh. If that's truly Faraday, I'm tuning out.

As for Audobon:
No, no and no!

If the Model 3 base price is $45k, then TM is staking the company's future on a very expensive car. Not only is that completely antithetical to Mr Musk's stated - axiomatic - goal for Tesla Motors, but it would relegate TM to the utterly inconsequential category occupied by Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Lotus, Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, Ferrari and a few other manufacturers (I know - not all of those are independent) whose presence is completely unimportant, irrelevant and ignored by 99.9 percent of the planet.

Some people, including apparently you, seem to be prey to price creep. $35,000 is at the top end of what many, many consumers even in the US can, under the aegis of impeccable credit, scrape together. $45,000 drops a staggering fraction of those out. And for the rest of the world? Unthinkable.

So, while I will not take issue that TM could sell out for a few years a $45K car, it nevertheless would spell the end of the company.

Please feel free to sequester this post and wave it at me in 3-4 years if I'm proven wrong. However, I think that's a chimera as I have confidence the $35K number will hold.

I tend to agree that the Model 3 must stick to $35K, but I fully expect they will offer options that push the price north of $45K even $50K. The base 3 will no doubt be $35K.

But as for the staggering fraction of people who won't go for a Model 3 with lots of options: I would have said the same about the very expensive Apple iPhone. Somehow people find a way to cough up the dough for a real game-changer tech product. I think the same will happen with Model 3. People will find a way. Many will try to lease, and find a way to basically pay an iPhone a month for 36 months...

That is, as long as the Model 3 doesn't come out like a Faraday weirdmobile!
 
My notes on Faraday presentation (apologies for any errors from haste):

Started right on time! Emphasized how amazing their team is four to five times in the intro. Car under sheet, but appears to be the concept image.

Stating 4 points of differentiation, I have bolded them.

-Team
-Transformative Vision (how can we design vehicles that respect and enhance the environment, new ways of connecting to larger world, how can we create a business that is a new model of ownership, how can we create something safe are the questions they are asking) Now Nick Sampson made a really bad joke comparing to mobile phone business, no laughs.
-Incredible Alliances (Great people and great organizations are necessary. Talking about FFs plant in Nevada -- $1B FF will invest and create 4.5k jobs -- breaking ground in a few weeks.
LETV (Netflix of China) Partnership, sounds like they are partnering closely in hopes of capturing China market. LETV has an auto division that will be separate but still very close partners.
Ding Lei from LETV on stage talking about importance of environment, going electric. 4 areas of importance in transportation (EVs, driven off renewable energy, connected to internet, ecosystem with LETV's entertainment)

Personally super disappointed thus far. No differentiating factor yet. Going on to 4th factor now.

-"We are fast" ("So far we have met all of our important deadlines")
-Nick giving props to Tesla. Waiting for the "but". Here it comes - Tesla founded in '03, five years to Roadster, four more to Model S, etc.
FF founded 18 months ago. "We already have 750 employees", "We will deliver first production vehicle in only a 'couple of years' time". Some half hearted clapping. Talking about their whole design process is digital so it is faster. Don't understand how that could possibly be a differentiator.

Now something interesting, getting into their platform.
VPA = Variable Platform Architecture. All cars will be developed on it. So the VPA can accommodate 1-4 motors, and has flexible battery layout. Battery packs compared to modern christmas tree lights, "if one goes out, they don't all go out."

Can customize vehicles adding more range, more power, etc. based on preference.

"Fully autonomous ready".

Unveiling car now after talking about how platform can be used for luxury sedan, crossover, pickup etc. "We can even go as far as something like this"

FF01 Concept:
Screen Shot 2016-01-04 at 10.30.43 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-01-04 at 10.32.10 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-01-04 at 10.32.56 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-01-04 at 10.36.07 PM.png

^"Aero tunnels"
Screen Shot 2016-01-04 at 10.37.09 PM.png

^Series of battery packs

Now comparing themselves to iPhone like he tried to do earlier. Pretty tacky in my opinion.

Overall opinion, the VPA sounds interesting but I'm not sure how big of an impact that will have. Will need to defer to the engineers out there. I don't see any other differentiators from Tesla other than that. Seem to be focused pretty much on the same thing, as predicted. I think we all want or are at least ok with other EV companies coming up, but something rubs me the wrong way every time I see Faraday. They seem extremely arrogant and condescending for having accomplished nothing. Having a big team means nothing, just means you are spending more money. And by the way, 18 months + "a couple of years" is pretty darn close to 5 years, the timeline Tesla achieved that they openly knocked. Not impressive considering a much larger team and much more funding.
 
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I'm getting a very uncanny and sketchy feeling about this whole thing. My impression is that this enterprise is being run by designers, bizdev and PR people. We're pretty far into this thing and there is zero mention of their product or tech. They only cite their "amazing team" and "transformative vision." Their top battery engineer also apparently just left the company: BREAKING: Faraday Future Chief Battery Engineer Leaves Company

I'm seeing shades of Fisker here...an operation that is not prioritizing engineering and is therefore unlikely to succeed. I'm saying this as someone who was truly hoping this presentation would blow my mind. I want nothing more than to see new and compelling entrants building awesome EV's.
 
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esk8mw

Active Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,333
7,073
Midwest
Errr, excuse me faraday but wtf is that? Please tell me they have plans to make something else that doesn't look ridiculous?

why are they building a factory to produce...that? They had me going, though. My hopes for another legit electric car company are shot.

Edit: I am curious to see how TSLA reacts to...that. After reflecting on the SP movement today I couldn't help but wonder if some of the decline was attributed to yet another tesla killer unveiling the murder weapon tonight. Now that we can be assured this is not the case I wonder if TSLA will see a little bump tomorrow. This of course ignores my belief that more ev makers is ultimately good for tesla in the long run.
 

InTheShadows

Active Member
Apr 20, 2013
2,449
2,335
USA
Errr, excuse me faraday but wtf is that? Please tell me they have plans to make something else that doesn't look ridiculous?

why are they building a factory to produce...that? They had me going, though. My hopes for another legit electric car company are shot.

Edit: I am curious to see how TSLA reacts to...that. After reflecting on the SP movement today I couldn't help but wonder if some of the decline was attributed to yet another tesla killer unveiling the murder weapon tonight. Now that we can be assured this is not the case I wonder if TSLA will see a little bump tomorrow. This of course ignores my belief that more ev makers is ultimately good for tesla in the long run.

I usually don't think things like this but FF's big reveal tonight might help lift TSLA stock tomorrow. They do not look even close to legit to me.
 

farzyness

Food lover. Entrepreneur. Did I say food lover?
Aug 8, 2013
686
1,847
Earth
Fallout from the Triple F? (Faraday Future Flop?)

Guys - I think it's VERY important that we are not dismissive of any competition popping up. Remember - most of the world was pointing at Tesla back in the 2000's as Silicon Valley garbage. Let's not lump ourselves in that crowd as well. We should welcome all competition, as it will benefit Tesla in tremendous ways, and validate the capabilities of EVs.
 
Guys - I think it's VERY important that we are not dismissive of any competition popping up. Remember - most of the world was pointing at Tesla back in the 2000's as Silicon Valley garbage. Let's not lump ourselves in that crowd as well. We should welcome all competition, as it will benefit Tesla in tremendous ways, and validate the capabilities of EVs.

Have you watched the presentation?
 
Guys - I think it's VERY important that we are not dismissive of any competition popping up. Remember - most of the world was pointing at Tesla back in the 2000's as Silicon Valley garbage. Let's not lump ourselves in that crowd as well. We should welcome all competition, as it will benefit Tesla in tremendous ways, and validate the capabilities of EVs.

Not really a benefit though, if everyone sees it as "another rich person's toy." Was really hoping for a serious attempt to "change the world." This ain't gonna do it. Congrats to the 43 people who might own one, though.

And a SINGLE seater? C'mon...
 

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