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Supercharger - Fargo, ND

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The important point is that where the demand is there, Tesla will react and install more chargers. Look at the Supercharge.info map for areas around major metropolises and major routes. (Toronto to NYC for example has a lot of very short gaps - you don't just skip one charger).

Plus, as more other manufacturers sell EV's there will be more charge options. I did buy a ChaDEMO adapter for this eventuality; I assume if CCS-only chargers start to predominate, Tesla will eventually have to make that adapter too. Germany IIRC has recently mandated all gas stations to also have chargers. PetroCanada is installing chargers across Canada, and will probably expand those offerings if the demand materializes.

Meanwhile, Superchargers are by far the best game in town. Often the only game in town. And out of town too.
 
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To MD-2000's point, an example. Park Meadows was the first Supercharger here in Denver. It started as 4 stalls.

Then jumped to ten. As the fleet grew, it
frequently backed up at holidays, and now Tesla just opened up 12 new V3 stalls half a mile away.

Additionally, Denver now has Supercharger locations on virtually every major route out of town. Colorado still needs a few more locations in the mountains, but Tesla's done very well by us lately.

They don't always expand as quickly as we'd hope, but they do pay attention and handle any hotspots.
 
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All 8 are now up. I am trying the second from the west end. Lower power here as I started out at 67kw and am now at 47kw . You know if you put your ear up to the right side of the pedestal, your can here something like a cooling fan noise. The four on the east side are much louder than the new ones on the west. Interesting. Probably all will be the same when they crank them up.
 
Tesla has the computers and data to track demand. I don't know if they track queue-for-charger times, but they can certainly track when a SC is full, and that the empty stall is filled as soon as the previous vehicle pulls out. Presumably this drives expansion plans.

The question is, do SC's make a decent amount of money, or are they loss-leaders to sell cars? I'm sure the more isolated ones don't pay their way, but the fact they exist will encourage more sales. I assume lack of SC options has held back ND sales for example.
 
Tesla has the computers and data to track demand. I don't know if they track queue-for-charger times, but they can certainly track when a SC is full, and that the empty stall is filled as soon as the previous vehicle pulls out. Presumably this drives expansion plans.

The question is, do SC's make a decent amount of money, or are they loss-leaders to sell cars? I'm sure the more isolated ones don't pay their way, but the fact they exist will encourage more sales. I assume lack of SC options has held back ND sales for example.
I’ve seen several people claim they were holding out on buying until ND super chargers were up. Now does it result in a ton of sales, probably not.

Tesla/Elon has stated that all money made on super chargers is put back into expanding the network. A good business strategy imo.
 
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Tesla has the computers and data to track demand. I don't know if they track queue-for-charger times, but they can certainly track when a SC is full, and that the empty stall is filled as soon as the previous vehicle pulls out. Presumably this drives expansion plans.

The question is, do SC's make a decent amount of money, or are they loss-leaders to sell cars? I'm sure the more isolated ones don't pay their way, but the fact they exist will encourage more sales. I assume lack of SC options has held back ND sales for example.
There is no way that Tesla makes money on the Superchargers. Each site costs around $250k (US) and there are full time employees travelling and haggling with local property owners and politicians to beg for sites. Property owners are paid monthly rent for use of their parking spots. And there are of course maintenance crews. The pittance that is paid for charging barely pays for the electricity going into the car (ie. a site consumes electricity even if there are no cars charging). And of course, many Teslas charge for "free". Elon said at one point that charging would not be a profit center.

A part of every car's price goes into infrastructure, which ICE companies don't think about. These costs are significant. Think of it as a loss leader. A very big one.

Charging support is a very significant cost to the company.
 
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Property owners are paid monthly rent for use of their parking spots
Mostly, they're not. In most locations, Tesla doesn't pay rent. The value they "provide" to the owners is an increase in captured traffic that will spend money in connected businesses.

I would say that the supercharger network as a whole is a big loss leader and I know that Tesla books the expenditures on remote or more rarely used superchargers as a marketing expense in their accounting. It's possible that individual stations that are solidly utilized could be turning a profit on an operating basis, but this doesn't account for the capital expenditure of developing and building the station.
 
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We're getting way off topic, but the main thing it depends on is how much they charge for electricity. If they mark up the electricity at say $0.10/kWh, then I'm sure many of the busy superchargers are profitable. For example, an 8-stall urban supercharger that is full or close to full for 12 hours of the day and mostly empty the rest of the day would profit ~$100k/yr before parts, maintenance and other expenses.

I agree that the supercharger network as a whole is currently a loss leader, but I don't necessarily agree that it will always be that way. The further we go into the future, the lower the percentage of energy will go to FREE supercharging. Also, the cost of building and maintaining the superchargers will go down, or, more likely, stay the same because they will continue to develop faster and better supercharging infrastructure. But this will also help them because they will get better throughput over time. Another point is the middle-of-nowhere superchargers that are just there to complete highways or enable travel to specific places such as national parks will get busier over time. And obviously they will put more and more superchargers in the crowded urban areas that already have profitable superchargers. This will be not only to meet demand, but also to increase profits and maintain market share (vs. having Tesla owners charge at Electrify America installations or whatever).

Just in case my post doesn't make it obvious, I do not put much stock in Elon's quote about superchargers not being a profit center (in the future).
 
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We're getting way off topic, but the main thing it depends on is how much they charge for electricity. If they mark up the electricity at say $0.10/kWh, then I'm sure many of the busy superchargers are profitable. For example, an 8-stall urban supercharger that is full or close to full for 12 hours of the day and mostly empty the rest of the day would profit ~$100k/yr before parts, maintenance and other expenses.

That depends on how many of those people using it have FUSC. (Which is most people with a S or X.) Or are using free miles from the referral program.
 
Has anyone charged at the Fargo supercharger today (7/10)? By

In car navigation lists it as "reduced service".

I visited and charged at Fargo a couple of days ago.

On the way there, the screen had:

"Supercharger Temporarily Closed

Supercharger Fargo, ND
Reduced Service"

I arrived at Fargo, started charging, and a local owner came and also started charging his Model 3.

We chatted, I finished my charge, and continued on my journey.

This Same screen message appeared before arrival at least three or four times during this trip.
And all of the Superchargers were able to supply the charge.

BUT: YYMV

I might just be very lucky, and arrived at the moment that location was not having an issue.

One last thing: Supercharger Network is a form of Advertising.
Not going into all the Details, but in some vicinities, people are not keenly aware of Tesla, or even electric cars/vehicles (beside golf carts).

And curious minds sometimes need that spark so that they can become informed that there are viable Options available to them.
NOW
Not just some far off date in 'The Future'.
 

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I was there just after sunset yesterday. One of the pedestals wasn't lit, and there was a cone in front of another. The one I randomly selected worked fine. I don't recall which one it was.

I kind of like having these chargers right next to the gas pumps. I had a very nice conversation with a couple that had been considering an electric car. He was surprised to hear my report at how great they are in the winter. You have fewer chances to evangelize when you're way in the back corner of a mall parking lot.
 
Charged here tonight

First two charge stations I tried didn't work: #3 and #4 counting from West.

But #2 worked.

Bit scary after the first two failed.


See my remarks on the Miles City, MT Supercharger.

The problem I experienced with the V3 Superchargers on I-94 is there were multiple times where the plug wouldn't connect to the car.
It's almost as if the plug is slightly warped or the specs for V3 plugs are much tighter than for V2 charger plugs.

Note: I've never experienced this problem with V3 chargers in the SouthEast, so I wonder if the extreme cold in ND and MT is causing warping?
I've also heard Canada V3 chargers are also experiencing problems.
 
See my remarks on the Miles City, MT Supercharger.

The problem I experienced with the V3 Superchargers on I-94 is there were multiple times where the plug wouldn't connect to the car.
It's almost as if the plug is slightly warped or the specs for V3 plugs are much tighter than for V2 charger plugs.

Note: I've never experienced this problem with V3 chargers in the SouthEast, so I wonder if the extreme cold in ND and MT is causing warping?
I've also heard Canada V3 chargers are also experiencing problems.

The V3 stations in ND and MT were commissioned in May and June of this year. I don't think they've been subjected to extreme cold yet. I have noticed the connectors on V3 stations being slightly tighter than V2. I've also noticed Model 3 charge ports being slightly tighter than S & X.