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Really? Only people that owns a tesla are allowed to make a conclusion? Ridiculous!
only people who own/drive a tesla has the knowledge and experience to offer a well informed opinion.
in this case it would be narrowed a bit more because only owners drivers of AP equipped model s or x who would have the prerequisite experience to support their opinions.
the ill informed comments and bickering from non owners/drivers is like background noise, useless, unneeded and unwanted.
Are you implying that we don't need any more risk takers on the road? I agree. Or are you implying we don't need any more AP equipped cars on the road??
I can poke so many holes with that crazy statement but it's not even with it. Re-think that.
You don't know how good it is unless you have owned one and used it for some reasonable length of time. Even a test drive won't do justice, let alone forming an opinion watching YouTube videos and reading WSJ hit pieces and making wise cracks here.
It's like writing car reviews without ever getting it any car.
Ooohh those cars, they keell peeople. I read it in WSJ !!
Ooohh those cars, they keell peeople. I read it in WSJ !!
Anyone can give their opinions on anything...like it or not. I've never played football but love to come to conclusions...I'm guessing you've done something similar in many aspects of your life.
I have to partially agree that only if you have experienced using AP on a long trip then you are qualified to comment.
First of all, most people think of AP as an AI which drives for you but in reality, everyone should realize that it is no more than a combination of two technologies: Active Cruise control which existed for years with the addition of lane keeping which is kind of new. And once you realized that this is the fact beyond the catchy marketing name of Auto-Pilot, you would realize its inherent limitation. In the case of the media, they hear the name Auto-Pilot so the car must be taking over and be responsible, so any accident which happens will be the fault of the robot. This is one thing I hate about liability lawsuit, in most case (but of course not all), people assume the manufacturer is responsible for all risk even when the product is being misused and they themselves are not accountable for anything.
In my case, I would think that AP actually makes me a safer driver. As with AP engaged, I am more likely to drive at speed limit and also change lane less often. Even when I get behind a slow moving vehicle, I would let TACC takes over and slows down. I think this is because my workload is reduced and hence my stress level so I actually become a mellow driver instead of the agitated aggressive drive I could have been, But of course, this is different for everyone.
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
So I've owned a Tesla for 2.5 years without AP, but I had a loaner for about a week with AP, driving it to my cabin and back over two mountain passes, putting about 500 km of AP driving on it in the process. But I better keep quiet about my AP comments according to you since I don't own an AP car. I should also have never made these comments about what I called "phantom autopilot":
Three recent autopilot/cruise control accidents
How dare I comment about something a non-AP car owner knows nothing about! I'm akin to Bernie Sanders trying to tell Donald Trump about how to create jobs. How dare me.
Seriously, we should welcome non-Tesla owners here with open arms. This about the advancement of EV's and not about elitism. If something is incorrectly stated, then it can be corrected. If you don't like what you call "background noise" then perhaps this isn't the right place for YOU.
That's very generous of you.
Bill D
Member
Bang! Did you ever walk into a stranger after you both made wrong assumptions about what move the other guy would make? I got thinking about this scenario when reading the quote below in this article.
‘GAVE IT THE GAS’
Baressi, an independent owner-operator, was hauling a half-load of blueberries when the 18-wheeler he was driving made the a left turn, attempting to cross the eastbound lanes of U.S. Highway 27 Alternate near Williston, Florida.
Baressi told Reuters on Friday that he had waited to allow another car to go by, then was making the turn when he first saw the Tesla.
“I saw him just cresting the hill so I gave it the gas,” said Baressi, who said the Tesla was in the left of two eastbound lanes, or the passing lane.
But, he said, by the time the Tesla struck the white trailer carrying the blueberries, “he was in the slow (right) lane ... I thought he had a heart attack or something. I don’t know why he went over to the slow lane when he had to have seen me.”
Since Tesla has acknowledged the AP was on, the logs will show if the trucker was correct, but if the trucker was correct about the Tesla's lane change, considering his field of view when turning, I put forth this theory:
The trucker started to turn but paused when he saw the Tesla. The truck's pause led Brown to assume he would pass in front of the turning, but paused, truck so he clicked his right turn signal for the AP to change lanes. Simultaneously, the trucker assumed Brown would pass behind his truck so he GAVE IT THE GAS and then saw the Tesla change lanes.
‘GAVE IT THE GAS’
Baressi, an independent owner-operator, was hauling a half-load of blueberries when the 18-wheeler he was driving made the a left turn, attempting to cross the eastbound lanes of U.S. Highway 27 Alternate near Williston, Florida.
Baressi told Reuters on Friday that he had waited to allow another car to go by, then was making the turn when he first saw the Tesla.
“I saw him just cresting the hill so I gave it the gas,” said Baressi, who said the Tesla was in the left of two eastbound lanes, or the passing lane.
But, he said, by the time the Tesla struck the white trailer carrying the blueberries, “he was in the slow (right) lane ... I thought he had a heart attack or something. I don’t know why he went over to the slow lane when he had to have seen me.”
Since Tesla has acknowledged the AP was on, the logs will show if the trucker was correct, but if the trucker was correct about the Tesla's lane change, considering his field of view when turning, I put forth this theory:
The trucker started to turn but paused when he saw the Tesla. The truck's pause led Brown to assume he would pass in front of the turning, but paused, truck so he clicked his right turn signal for the AP to change lanes. Simultaneously, the trucker assumed Brown would pass behind his truck so he GAVE IT THE GAS and then saw the Tesla change lanes.
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The issue for me is whether Tesla is doing enough, through its software and hardware, to ensure drivers are paying attention to the road while using a system that imbues a false sense of security. In my opinion the answer is no. Tesla is reiterating its written disclaimers in its blog post, however disclaimers don't protect consumers - they protect Tesla. What is Tesla doing to protect the users of its system from being distracted? There is a great potential for driver distraction with Autopilot and it's Tesla's responsibility to try and mitigate driver distraction as much as possible in its implementation of this system - after all, Tesla says the driver must be paying attention. What is Tesla doing to ensure the driver is paying attention? A disclaimer is insufficient. The NHTSA is concerned with what manufacturers are doing to keep occupants of vehicles safe, not necessarily with disclaimers and fine print which do nothing to protect occupants but are an attempt by the vehicle manufacturer to protect its own legal liability.
I still love my Model S and am 100% behind Tesla's mission, I just feel their implementation of this feature is flawed and needs to be re-evaluated.
I still love my Model S and am 100% behind Tesla's mission, I just feel their implementation of this feature is flawed and needs to be re-evaluated.
beyond the warnings and the nags exactly what do you think would be a high enough level of "doing enough" on tesla's part?
I equate it to money, if there is money to be taken someone will figure a way to try and take it regardless of any sort of security implemented.
Agreed. I recently drove my folks' S70 from LA to SD and had Autopilot on for most of trip, and my driving (note, not the car's driving, as I was in control) was much more mellow than if I didn't have it on. I'll admit that I was less "on guard" than I should have been, but I think the lower speeds would've offset my delayed reaction time if I had to make an evasive maneuver or something.
Lexus LS has a drowsiness monitor in which there's actually a driver-facing camera that looks at your eyes... to make sure you're attentive and not asleep.
dweeks
Member
Amped,
Short of incorporating a system to watch the driver's eyeballs to make sure they are looking (and are focused) some distance ahead out the front windshield, I'm at a loss how Tesla can assure the driver is paying attention to the road, as opposed to a DVD player.
Requiring acknowledgement of a car-generated warning from time to time does not guarantee the driver is paying attention to the road. In fact, that would pull attention away from the driving task.
EDIT post 878 appeared after I submitted mine. It made me do some quick lookups.
Driver Monitoring System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Driver drowsiness detection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
snellenr
Member
He was already blocking the road at that point. He had two options then: come to a full stop and hope the driver could maneuver around the front of the cab, and back out of the way, or hit the gas and hope that the car could maneuver around behind him.
I would add that it isn't just about how far you've driven, it's the kind of roads that you've driven with the AP engaged. I've driven just about any sort of paved roadway with it on as there is possible. I've had some unusual things happen and have logged almost 10k miles with it. Am I an expert? no, but I do think I have a decent base of knowledge about what it does, what it doesn't, what faults are fairly usual and have had a few inexplicable actions it has taken. the system is good, but it is far from perfect and if you don't treat it with respect it can "bite" you and in a 42k pound machine moving rapidly those bites can be very serious.
As for driving with the AP I agree with you, it takes a lot of driver aggression out of the equation, I call it a chill ride, you set your speed sit back and monitor your progress and on the fairly open roads I frequent you just enjoy the ride.
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