TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Feasible to get California to spend $ maintaining lane markings better?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by calisnow, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Better lane markings on many of California's worn out freeways might help autopilots in the "corner cases" that Elon Musk publicly stated delayed AP's release (I-405 near L.A.). As more and more cars get equipped with autopilot - would it be possible to get our legislators to allocate the funds to re-stripe our roads - and implement a maintenance program where lane markings stay visible?
     
  2. mshuang

    mshuang Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Southern CA
    As I understand it, the city roads are the financial responsibility of the city, the unincorporated areas are the responsibility of the county, and the highways/freeways/interstate are the responsibility of the state.

    That being said I haven't had much issue with autopilot not reading the the lane markings, and I've driven pretty extensively on the 405 and all the highways near the Tesla HQ in Hawthorne.
     
  3. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That's good to hear - I take delivery in a couple days. My AP experience was renting a 7.0 car for a week right after it was first released. When traveling into the afternoon sun on the 10 west, or into the morning sun going east - I found that AP seemed to really work hard at wiggling around trying to stay in the lane. I assumed it was due to the glare on the road reducing the visible contrast between lane markings and pavement, and thus reducing AP's confidence level that it knew where the lane divisions were.

    Maybe they've improved its algorithms or implemented use of some HD maps in 7.1?
     
  4. cpa

    cpa Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Central Valley
    As I understand it (and I could be wrong,) road and highway funding come from several sources. I believe that most of the funding for city streets comes from city coffers. Similarly, county roads come from county coffers, but I think there are some provisions for additional funding from Sacramento. (The Streets and Highways Code is a labyrinth.) Legislative routes include interstate, federal and state numbered highways, and they are funded by Sacramento and Washington. (The only exception is for signed surface highways that are within city limits, whereby the state has relinquished control of the route to the city.)

    Highway funds are used for new construction, repair and maintenance. I would guess that lane striping falls into the maintenance category. We all know that our roads are in pretty bad shape here in California. I further guess that lane striping is far down the list for maintenance-type work. It is unfortunate, but there just isn't enough money to do everything that the state is supposed to do to keep our highways in good condition.
     
  5. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,648
    Location:
    Oregon
    Doesn't a lot of the highway funds come from the gas tax? So as more people that switch to EVs less money is available for new construction, repair and maintenance.
     
  6. hockeythug

    hockeythug Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,499
    Location:
    Minnesota
    #6 hockeythug, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
    Eventually there will have to be policy change either by a millage tax (which most EV owners are on board) with or something else.
     
  7. Scotty

    Scotty Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Lodi, CA
    I couldn't agree with you more! The lane markings are horrendous. In Northern California, I-5 markings just disappear, and seem to be the lowest priority for CalTrans.

    Lane markings on I-5 from Tracy to Yolo County are terrible.
     
  8. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,165
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    CA has a multi-billion dollar shortfall with regards to highway maintenance, upkeep, repair, replacement, and upgrading so I highly doubt lane markings are very high on CalTrans priority list... The shortfall will only continue to get worse as the primary source of funding, the gas tax, continues to dwindle as people buy less and less fuel. Raising the tax to compensate for that reality is, well, not very politically popular which makes it almost a dead idea to start.

    Long term a new funding mechanism is going to be needed and EV drivers are going to have to pay their fare share. Mileage based is the way to go but privacy advocates are staunchly against that under the idea that the government will track you... I believe Oregon or Washington state is piloting such a program so we'll see how it goes. Either way, the money has to come from somewhere...

    Jeff
     
  9. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,766
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA

    Feasible to get California to spend $ maintaining lane markings better?

    Ha! Good luck with that!
     
  10. Drivin

    Drivin Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    964
    Location:
    CA

    California has $150,000,000,0000 in unfunded retirement obligations, never mind the other issues with the poor and homeless in the state and you want to spend money on corner cases so rich people can use autopilot instead of drivetheir cars like everyone else?

    seriously?

    please tell me that you were joking.

    i really hope that this is a joke.
     
  11. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You can keep hoping all you like sweetheart but I wasn't joking. Keep your hope alive!
     
  12. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,165
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    CA spends more than enough on the poor and homeless, if anything they should be spending less, far less actually. Regarding unfunded pension obligations, yes this is a serious problem that's not being taken seriously by the state but that's an entirely different issue all together.

    I highly doubt the OP was joking, and I can promise you I'm not joking when I say that the lack of infrastructure spending, in favor of say spending hundreds of billions on the poor and homeless, is absurd. Infrastructure spending, or the lack thereof, has far reaching consequences.

    Jeff
     
  13. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,798
    Location:
    California
    I don't know about other parts of the state but up in the Sierra, winter snow, ice, gravel and chains erase road marks quickly. Just yesterday, CalTrans was out re-striping Hwy 89 (and as a result, AP works great). It's a constant battle. I don't think the cost of paint is a major part of the budget. Building roads and paving roads eats up most of the dollars. Painting is not just for Tesla AP, it's a vital safety factor.
     
  14. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I wasn't joking - you're correct. A more serious response to the indignant poster who thought I was advocating infrastructure spending to benefit a few rich people - is that I am not advocating that. I think most of us here believe this technology will be in the lowly Honda Civic in less than 10 years (or even less than 5) - it's coming for the masses. So if it is the case that better road markings would help autopilots make more accurate decisions - then better road markings would benefit everyone.

    However I could be totally wrong on the technology side - I know nothing about machine learning and maybe the existing tech, along with high definition maps, will serve just fine. It was mere speculation on my part.

    Also now that other people on the thread have enlightened me as to the complicated budgetary mess that is our road maintenance system - and reminded me of California's billions of dollars in other financial problems - I realize that my idea isn't feasible anyway.
     
  15. Caligula

    Caligula Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    San Diego
    Pothole maintenance > lane marking maintenance
     
  16. Jool

    Jool Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Totally agree with Caligula, as much as I'd like to have better lane markings in certain places the potholes are much worse. Seen a few that look like they'd eat the 21 inch wheels for breakfast *and* lunch!

    In my experience, the lane markings have been fine for the most part anyway. There's only so much you can do for those white concrete freeways.
     

Share This Page