Fed up?

[El joe]

I believe the only time FSD disappears (vaporizes) from the vehicle is when it is traded in and becomes the property of Tesla. If someone sells their car to a private party, or trades it in to a non-Tesla dealer, FSD remains.

I’ve purchased two Teslas, one from Carvana and one from Vroom. One had EAP and the other had FSD and I still own the one with FSD. And it sort of sucks that I literally wake up each day and check my account to make sure that Tesla didn’t take my FSD away as I’m not 100% sure if Tesla got their hands on it before me.

 

[qdeathstar]

Outside of apps that deliver content (Netflix, NYT, etc), this is far from true. There are 3.5M apps on the google play store. You're saying most of them are subscriptions, not purchases?

Most of the relevant ones, yes. Any type of premier software is subscription based. Think autocad, Adobe, etc.)

I reckon most of the others are “free”. A 100 dollar app would be pretty rare.

 

[gearchruncher]

Think autocad, Adobe, etc.)

Nobody I know calls Autocad an "app".... Apps are on your phone. This is the confusion.

 

[qdeathstar]

autocad is on your phone though. It’s 2021….

 

[Fernand]

>> This discussion wold actually matter if it did what they promised up back in 2019. It's not even safe to use on the highway.

Well, here we go. To each his own. Don't use it then. Do you have it?
It's not safe if you sleep or expect Level 5. It's not Level 5.
But I use NOA all the time and for me it's safer than not using it.
Do you think people like me don't know its limits, or are delusional?
And it's even well worth the money for me. So I want to keep it.

 

[TSucks]

The argument that it should not be transferrable is the same as arguing that you should not be able to play video games you purchased on your console, when you go to your friends houses, on their consoles. Or listen to music you digitally purchased on other devices. Even worse when you bought FSD, had the car for 2-3 years, never got to use it, then upgraded to a newer model of the car and have to pay 10k AGAIN for something you might not get to use for the life span of that vehicle before you upgrade to a newer model again.

Bollocks! Stop supporting unethical Tesla. It should be transferrable. FSD is not a $50 computer game!

 

[TSucks]

Tesla and Elon musk clearly decieved about FSD! Hope they get punished for lying! Not gauranteeing FSD transfer shows you how unethical the company is. I sold my Model S because I hate how Tesla operates!!! Going to sell my wifes Model 3 soon and be done with this BS company!

 

[Ramphex]

Bollocks! Stop supporting unethical Tesla. It should be transferrable. FSD is not a $50 computer game!

I don’t know if you misread what I said, but I’m agreeing with you. FSD should link to personal account and not the vehicle. Especially when it keeps getting delayed and people sit around for years never receiving what they paid for.

 

[nvx1977]

Yeah I actually like the idea of giving the early adopter FSD people (which includes everyone who's bought it since it's not out yet) lifetime ownership of FSD (tied to your account and transferrable to another car). It would at least acknowledge the patience we've granted them, as Musk clearly underestimated how difficult it was to get FSD beyond L2. Once it's officially L4, Tesla can then tie it to the vehicle or offer subscription only for future customers who get FSD.

 

[gearchruncher]

Yeah I actually like the idea of giving the early adopter FSD people (which includes everyone who's bought it since it's not out yet) lifetime ownership of FSD (tied to your account and transferrable to another car).

This will never happen.
The issue with this is that there are 20 year olds with Teslas and FSD. Tesla would owe this person FSD for life- for the next 80 years, on any Tesla they ever owned. They could purchase a used Tesla every 6 months, and Tesla would be required to do anything required to those cars to make FSD work.

This also assumes real FSD is ever going to be a thing. It very well may not, especially with anything that looks like current hardware. Right now there are couple hundred thousand people Tesla owes FSD to, but only on their current car. Maybe that will come to a head someday and Tesla will owe those people their $2K-$10K back. Maybe a billion dollars. That's at least a capped and understood value. But what if FSD requires $50K of hardware in the future, and they gave those 200K people "lifetime" FSD, and those people buy a used Tesla without the hardware...???

But the most interesting thing is that you are so sure that Tesla will get to "FSD" that you want to be more locked in to Tesla's autonomy, not less. History has not taught you that there is a very good chance Tesla will never get to L4 with anything that looks like a current Tesla? Tesla's path needs to be fewer promises about FSD, not "lifetime."

They need to just offer refunds and move on. Those that want them can take them, those that don't can wait it out on their current car.

 

[nvx1977]

This will never happen.
The issue with this is that there are 20 year olds with Teslas and FSD. Tesla would owe this person FSD for life- for the next 80 years, on any Tesla they ever owned. They could purchase a used Tesla every 6 months, and Tesla would be required to do anything required to those cars to make FSD work.

This also assumes real FSD is ever going to be a thing. It very well may not, especially with anything that looks like current hardware. Right now there are couple hundred thousand people Tesla owes FSD to, but only on their current car. Maybe that will come to a head someday and Tesla will owe those people their $2K-$10K back. Maybe a billion dollars. That's at least a capped and understood value. But what if FSD requires $50K of hardware in the future, and they gave those 200K people "lifetime" FSD, and those people buy a used Tesla without the hardware...???

But the most interesting thing is that you are so sure that Tesla will get to "FSD" that you want to be more locked in to Tesla's autonomy, not less. History has not taught you that there is a very good chance Tesla will never get to L4 with anything that looks like a current Tesla?

Good point regarding age and lifetime. Might make more sense to sunset it at certain newer models, kinda like how free supercharging stopped beyond Model S/X.

I know your stance on FSD very well given how much you post about it. I guess I'm more optimistic that this problem will be solved. While fully acknowledging that lots of past statements of FSD's "inevitability" timelines have been invalidated, Tesla is still making observable progress, and their AI day approach makes sense to me. FSD proficiency is not a black or white thing. As it gets better and better (march of 9s) they will eventually get to a point where regulators and the general public can no longer deny that overall FSD safety exceeds that of humans.

I actually think the human driving record is atrocious, and it won't be hard for multiple companies to achieve FSD safer than humans.

 

[CyberGus]

1. Tesla should stop selling FSD altogether, and use the subscription model exclusively.
2. Those who purchased FSD should have the option to convert it to an equal value of subscription months.

 

[linux-works]

when the competition offers level2 for free or at an attractive price, tesla will be forced to re-eval their 'business model' of charging too much for 'fsd' and not allowing it to stay with the car or the owner in all conditions.

the only reason they (tesla) does this is 'because they can'. eventually they wont. competition will force them; and nothing else will. elon loves money and wants more of it, of course. he does not care about you. stop thinking it was EVER about you, the customer. that's elon's Big Lie(tm).

 

[dcesq06]

1. Tesla should stop selling FSD altogether, and use the subscription model exclusively.
2. Those who purchased FSD should have the option to convert it to an equal value of subscription months.

Why would anyone go with #2? It wouldn't make any sense for the FSD owners as it would place them in a worse position than they currently are.

 

[CyberGus]

Why would anyone go with #2? It wouldn't make any sense for the FSD owners as it would place them in a worse position than they currently are.

The subscription would be tied to the owner, not the specific vehicle.

 

[dcesq06]

The subscription would be tied to the owner, not the specific vehicle.

Ah, I see. That would make sense if the FSD purchase credit didn't start until after the owner bought a new Tesla.

 

[Spuzzz]

This will never happen.
The issue with this is that there are 20 year olds with Teslas and FSD. Tesla would owe this person FSD for life- for the next 80 years, on any Tesla they ever owned. They could purchase a used Tesla every 6 months, and Tesla would be required to do anything required to those cars to make FSD work.

This also assumes real FSD is ever going to be a thing. It very well may not, especially with anything that looks like current hardware. Right now there are couple hundred thousand people Tesla owes FSD to, but only on their current car. Maybe that will come to a head someday and Tesla will owe those people their $2K-$10K back. Maybe a billion dollars. That's at least a capped and understood value. But what if FSD requires $50K of hardware in the future, and they gave those 200K people "lifetime" FSD, and those people buy a used Tesla without the hardware...???

But the most interesting thing is that you are so sure that Tesla will get to "FSD" that you want to be more locked in to Tesla's autonomy, not less. History has not taught you that there is a very good chance Tesla will never get to L4 with anything that looks like a current Tesla? Tesla's path needs to be fewer promises about FSD, not "lifetime."

They need to just offer refunds and move on. Those that want them can take them, those that don't can wait it out on their current car.

I like the idea

This will never happen.
The issue with this is that there are 20 year olds with Teslas and FSD. Tesla would owe this person FSD for life- for the next 80 years, on any Tesla they ever owned. They could purchase a used Tesla every 6 months, and Tesla would be required to do anything required to those cars to make FSD work.

This also assumes real FSD is ever going to be a thing. It very well may not, especially with anything that looks like current hardware. Right now there are couple hundred thousand people Tesla owes FSD to, but only on their current car. Maybe that will come to a head someday and Tesla will owe those people their $2K-$10K back. Maybe a billion dollars. That's at least a capped and understood value. But what if FSD requires $50K of hardware in the future, and they gave those 200K people "lifetime" FSD, and those people buy a used Tesla without the hardware...???

But the most interesting thing is that you are so sure that Tesla will get to "FSD" that you want to be more locked in to Tesla's autonomy, not less. History has not taught you that there is a very good chance Tesla will never get to L4 with anything that looks like a current Tesla? Tesla's path needs to be fewer promises about FSD, not "lifetime."

They need to just offer refunds and move on. Those that want them can take them, those that don't can wait it out on their current car.

yes that will never happen as described. But wouldn’t it be smart for Tesla to transfer fsd to owners who have not yet received the product they bought and paid for? That requires an effort to define what the end product looks like. But as it stands now there is a disincentive for Tesla owners with fsd to buy a newer model. I know I won’t buy another Tesla until they deliver what was promised or transfer to a new car

 

[gearchruncher]

I know I won’t buy another Tesla until they deliver what was promised or transfer to a new car

To that, I say:

US: Tesla Asks New Buyers To Wait For Model Y LR Until April 2022

The disproportion between the demand and supply of the Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD appears to expand in the U.S.

insideevs.com

Tesla's order books are full for half a year ahead. They don't care if a current owner is interested in buying another vehicle. They have no incentives here unless they are forced to refund on existing cars.

 

[Spuzzz]

To that, I say:

US: Tesla Asks New Buyers To Wait For Model Y LR Until April 2022

The disproportion between the demand and supply of the Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD appears to expand in the U.S.

insideevs.com

Tesla's order books are full for half a year ahead. They don't care if a current owner is interested in buying another vehicle. They have no incentives here unless they are forced to refund on existing cars.

That’s a short term situation possibly bottlenecked by supplier shortages and if not - shame on me for not buying stock even at these inflated prices. They surely are thinking about a strategy beyond this.

 

[gearchruncher]

They surely are thinking about a strategy beyond this.

You're sure Tesla has a strategy that goes more than one quarter out, and that strategy is to get people with FSD to remove that from their current car and put it on a new car?