feedback from individuals running Paragon or Girodisc rotors on M3P for HPDE or track events

[stevehifi]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone is running Paragon 2 or Girodisc rotors at the track or at HPDE events and what the feedback is performance in regards to:
-brake fade (after many laps)
-stopping power
-cooling (reasonable caliper temps)

Just trying to see if I can invest in rotors+pads+lines and that would be good enough for 5-10 track days/year versus buying a BBK.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Mash]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone is running Paragon 2 or Girodisc rotors at the track or at HPDE events and what the feedback is performance in regards to:
-brake fade (after many laps)
-stopping power
-cooling (reasonable caliper temps)

Just trying to see if I can invest in rotors+pads+lines and that would be good enough for 5-10 track days/year versus buying a BBK.

Thanks,
Steve

It depends on how fast are you and your track of choice. And if you fast enough - how much are you willing to make cool down laps?

I have CCB from UP and 3 massive oil coolers. Usually battery would overheat before brakes after 65% battery consumed of non-stop sprinting. But if I would not properly cool brakes down - it would boil out ftesh Castrol SRF in the pit.

Stock rotors are bad with ventilation. Girodisc of same size would work much better. High temp pads are the first thing you need anyway. But in my experience stock size rotors are not thick enough to buffer heat and pass enough air to match battery constraints. You might make some air scoops, use some brake ducts and if they are effective that can keep stock size rotors within the limit.

With 5-10 track days a year, you can try it. Rotors and pads are consumables anyway. Get rotors temp paint and caliper paint stickers. Increase your speed, decrease your cooking and check if temps are still ok. If it's not good enough for you - consume your pads and rotors and upgrade to AP/ST/UP brake kit. You only realistically need to upgrade the front, rear works with just proper pads.

 

[The Other Dan]

But if I would not properly cool brakes down - it would boil out ftesh Castrol SRF in the pit.

This is a Tesla problem, not entirely a proper cool down problem. Ideally, you should park, Leaving the car in neutral, with no brakes applied at all if that's even possible with a Tesla.
Pre-Tesla, during HPDEs with novice drivers, it wasn't entirely uncommon for someone to come in after a session and park their car with no braking issues at all. Next session they would go out and have very soft or no brakes.
What they were doing is come in and set the parking/E-brake. The pads constantly engaged allowed the heat from the rotors to transfer to the fluid and boil it.
Point being, with a Tesla, when you come in and press the park button, it sets the parking brake, and likely allows alot of heat to stay or build in the fluid, potentially boiling it.
We used to recommend people park, no parking brake, and after about 10min, push your car 6" or so, so the portion of the rotor under the pads changes and allowed better cooling.

 

[buckets0fun]

Ideally, you should park, Leaving the car in neutral, with no brakes applied at all if that's even possible with a Tesla.

"tow mode" / transport mode + wheel chock.

 

[subieworx]

"tow mode" / transport mode + wheel chock.

This is what I do.

 

[Level8Drummer]

If you are overheating brake fluid in between sessions, not during the session I would recommend a better cool down lap at the end...or maybe 2.

L8D

 

[stevehifi]

Thanks guys for all your inputs so far. My initial impression of the stock brakes is that they have essentially no initial bite and more of a gradual/linear pressure application that eventually stops the car well and probably the pad material was tailored to work with the regen's linear approach as well as opposed to an initial 'grabby' approach.
I do have the MPP master cylinder brace installed which helped tremendously, but the pedal feel is still pretty mushy. There's not much accuracy or feel in the pedal travel as well.

Just wondering if the problem is really the pad material or the size of rotor/pad.

 

[MountainPass]

Thanks guys for all your inputs so far. My initial impression of the stock brakes is that they have essentially no initial bite and more of a gradual/linear pressure application that eventually stops the car well and probably the pad material was tailored to work with the regen's linear approach as well as opposed to an initial 'grabby' approach.
I do have the MPP master cylinder brace installed which helped tremendously, but the pedal feel is still pretty mushy. There's not much accuracy or feel in the pedal travel as well.

Just wondering if the problem is really the pad material or the size of rotor/pad.

The lack of initial bite is going to be resolved with more aggressive brake pads. Rotors are only going to improve how many times you can brake hard without overheating your pads/fluid! The mushy pedal can be further improved with stainless steel lines and a good brake fluid flush, just in case you may have some air in there from previous hard driving.

 

[kylenater]

The lack of initial bite is going to be resolved with more aggressive brake pads. Rotors are only going to improve how many times you can brake hard without overheating your pads/fluid! The mushy pedal can be further improved with stainless steel lines and a good brake fluid flush, just in case you may have some air in there from previous hard driving.

Since pads and rotors are consumables, does MPP offer replacement rotor rings once they are worn? Or do you need to purchase replacements from GiroDisc?

 

[MountainPass]

Since pads and rotors are consumables, does MPP offer replacement rotor rings once they are worn? Or do you need to purchase replacements from GiroDisc?

Yes, we offer rotor ring replacements, which come with new hardware as well. Swapping them is quite easy and I honestly find it therapeutic You can email us when your rotors are getting thin and we will get a set of rings ready.

 

[kylenater]

Yes, we offer rotor ring replacements, which come with new hardware as well. Swapping them is quite easy and I honestly find it therapeutic You can email us when your rotors are getting thin and we will get a set of rings ready.

Final question: Do many customers experience rust rings on the inner rotor where the stock sized brake pad doesn't make contact with the larger rotor? (ie. After rain or washing the car?)

 

[MountainPass]

Final question: Do many customers experience rust rings on the inner rotor where the stock sized brake pad doesn't make contact with the larger rotor? (ie. After rain or washing the car?)

If that part of the rotor isn't zinc-plated or the zinc plating has been worn off by a larger aftermarket pad, then you'll have a ring there since the pad won't sweep it off after.

 

[kylenater]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone is running Paragon 2 or Girodisc rotors at the track or at HPDE events and what the feedback is performance in regards to:
-brake fade (after many laps)
-stopping power
-cooling (reasonable caliper temps)

Just trying to see if I can invest in rotors+pads+lines and that would be good enough for 5-10 track days/year versus buying a BBK.

Thanks,
Steve

I just tested out the Paragon rotors for my Model 3. These rotors look nice on the street, but perform like garbage when they get hot. I installed these rotors this past weekend and began the bed-in process for the pads/rotors. When the rotors got up to track temperatures, the brakes began to grind in the front and rub in the back. I worked with Paragon the whole week to help diagnose the problem. They kept on insisting it was my calipers, pads, fitment, etc. I KNOW I INSTALLED THIS KIT RIGHT, but I still tore everything apart again and verified everything was functioning properly. It is the identical to the install process of the MPP rotors. And I doubted my $800 Endless pads were the cause of the problem, I just bought them new on 10/7.

When I got back home after some hard driving, I discovered that the rotors were expanding so much under high heat that they no longer cleared the inner caliper. The rotors were shaving off my inner caliper and damaging them!!! See attached pictures.

I could maybe recommend these rotors as an aesthetic upgrade for the street, but they completely fail for performance driving. Having grinding/shuttering brakes while in race conditions is not only unacceptable, but just plain unsafe. Definitely will be stepping into the MPP BBK rotors once I get my coins from Paragon.

I wasted my time, energy, and money on these and can only be disappointed in myself for trying to save a few hundred bucks. I learned my first and last lesson with budget performance parts, never again. Buy quality, either MPP or get a full on BBK.

 

[kylenater]

I just tested out the Paragon rotors for my Model 3. These rotors look nice on the street, but perform like garbage when they get hot. I installed these rotors this past weekend and began the bed-in process for the pads/rotors. When the rotors got up to track temperatures, the brakes began to grind in the front and rub in the back. I worked with Paragon the whole week to help diagnose the problem. They kept on insisting it was my calipers, pads, fitment, etc. I KNOW I INSTALLED THIS KIT RIGHT, but I still tore everything apart again and verified everything was functioning properly. It is the identical to the install process of the MPP rotors. And I doubted my $800 Endless pads were the cause of the problem, I just bought them new on 10/7.

When I got back home after some hard driving, I discovered that the rotors were expanding so much under high heat that they no longer cleared the inner caliper. The rotors were shaving off my inner caliper and damaging them!!! See attached pictures.

I could maybe recommend these rotors as an aesthetic upgrade for the street, but they completely fail for performance driving. Having grinding/shuttering brakes while in race conditions is not only unacceptable, but just plain unsafe. Definitely will be stepping into the MPP BBK rotors once I get my coins from Paragon.

I wasted my time, energy, and money on these and can only be disappointed in myself for trying to save a few hundred bucks. I learned my first and last lesson with budget performance parts, never again. Buy quality, either MPP or get a full on BBK.

I would like to report that Paragon customer service is friendly and responsive. They offered me a full refund and want me to send the rotors back to them for inspection. Thru the whole process, they genuinely wanted to help me resolve my problem. Unfortunately it is defective product because they are not suited for racing, as advertised.

Bought the rotors on 10/19
Received them on 10/21
Installed on 10/23
Tested for performance thru 10/24-10/26
Returned/Refunded on 10/27

Talk about a quick turn around.

Thank you Godfrey at Paragon for the excellent customer service. I hope your team can eventually perfect these rotors!

 

[Lindenwood]

Honestly, the advice here has all been solid and aligns with the advice that gave me great success from day one. I only have a handful of AutoX days and a couple of track days, but my brake setup has been working flawlessly.

Front: Brembo 6-Piston calipers with Girodisc 370x34 rotors, using Powerstop Track Day Pads

Rear: Factory brakes with RB XT910 pads

MPP brake lines all around, with Motul RBF600 fluid.

Of note, from what I read, you will spend about $750 on good front pads, MPP lines, and flushing in good fluid, only to likely be disappointed due to the undersized rotors. Then you will have to add $1100 Page Mill front rotors ($1850ish total) to try to make them better. I ended up around $2200 for my Brembo calipers with pads and Girodisc rotors.

I honestly hate to recommend anything but MPP products because I have about $5,500 in Flawless gear from them, plus several helpful emails regarding install and alignment. But, I am really happy with my brakes, especially for what I have invested into them.

 

[subieworx]

I just tested out the Paragon rotors for my Model 3. These rotors look nice on the street, but perform like garbage when they get hot. I installed these rotors this past weekend and began the bed-in process for the pads/rotors. When the rotors got up to track temperatures, the brakes began to grind in the front and rub in the back. I worked with Paragon the whole week to help diagnose the problem. They kept on insisting it was my calipers, pads, fitment, etc. I KNOW I INSTALLED THIS KIT RIGHT, but I still tore everything apart again and verified everything was functioning properly. It is the identical to the install process of the MPP rotors. And I doubted my $800 Endless pads were the cause of the problem, I just bought them new on 10/7.

When I got back home after some hard driving, I discovered that the rotors were expanding so much under high heat that they no longer cleared the inner caliper. The rotors were shaving off my inner caliper and damaging them!!! See attached pictures.

I could maybe recommend these rotors as an aesthetic upgrade for the street, but they completely fail for performance driving. Having grinding/shuttering brakes while in race conditions is not only unacceptable, but just plain unsafe. Definitely will be stepping into the MPP BBK rotors once I get my coins from Paragon.

I wasted my time, energy, and money on these and can only be disappointed in myself for trying to save a few hundred bucks. I learned my first and last lesson with budget performance parts, never again. Buy quality, either MPP or get a full on BBK.

Are they rubbing on the inside of the caliper as more heat is generated? Very interesting to see that and must mean that the hat sizing is off. By the look of them they are made by Stoptech so the quality should be good enough.

 

[kylenater]

Are they rubbing on the inside of the caliper as more heat is generated? Very interesting to see that and must mean that the hat sizing is off. By the look of them they are made by Stoptech so the quality should be good enough.

Correct, the rotors are expanding under high heat. See attached photos earlier in thread.
Paragon rotors are not manufactured or assembled by StopTech. To my current knowledge, the only braking system utilizing StopTech hardware is MPP BBK.

 

[stevehifi]

Correct, the rotors are expanding under high heat. See attached photos earlier in thread.
Paragon rotors are not manufactured or assembled by StopTech. To my current knowledge, the only braking system utilizing StopTech hardware is MPP BBK.

It's possible that the adapter that comes with the kit isn't moving the caliper far enough to avoid contact when the rotor expands due to temperature changes. Others that use the paragon rotors on the M3P haven't reported any issues but that doesn't relocate the caliper. Next time buy MPP just to be safe.

 

[kylenater]

It's possible that the adapter that comes with the kit isn't moving the caliper far enough to avoid contact when the rotor expands due to temperature changes. Others that use the paragon rotors on the M3P haven't reported any issues but that doesn't relocate the caliper. Next time buy MPP just to be safe.

Agreed, if the bracket was a little larger (Placing the caliper farther out on the rotor) I believe it would clear, even when expanded under heat. However, I would then worry that the entire pad surface would not be making full contact with the rotor surface. Resulting in a loss of braking performance.
Ultimately, something in the hardware is not properly sized