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Feeling less and less comfortable

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Karen in MN, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Karen in MN

    Karen in MN Member

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    Hello all-

    I was thinking very seriously about ordering either an S or X (prefer S driving, but with dogs may be best to go X). However, a number of things are making me re-think.

    1. I had to sign a responsibility doc just to test the car. I have never done this before. They told me it was implicit with everyone else when I turned over my driver's license for a test drive. But with more thought, this doesn't seem right.

    2. When I expressed discomfort about the battery pack software upgrade cost of $9000, I was diminished. "Nothing to look at here" "Just like getting a different memory card on your phone" It was rather aggressively dismissed. I don't think it's totally out to lunch, but it is a little unusual seeming to me. More, it was the manner of the "technical expert" or whatever the sales guy was called.

    3. It was impressed upon me that everything is under warranty for a long period of time - yet, I hear about these issues with struts not being under warranty.

    4. I have concerns about absent-mindedly becoming reliant on autopilot. I raises my discomfort when I read about the fatal crash and how it was not disclosed to investors.

    I guess what this is boiling down to is this is a LOT of money to spend on a car. I'm usually a Toyota kind-of girl. But I am interested in self-driving and environment. However, my trust in this company has only gone downhill with further inspection. I welcome your thoughts.
     
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  2. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    #1: Not sure why this would bother you, I didn't have to sign one, but if it just says you'll be responsible with the car whats the big deal?

    #2: Whats the concern with the cost of the upgrade? Its basically a way they can get folk sin the door at a lower price and then have them be able to unlock more capability if they want later on. Its really a win-win for both parties.

    #3 Not sure what issue with the struts are that you are talking about. Everything is under warranty for 4 years 50k miles, the drivetrain is under warranty for 8 years unlimited miles.

    #4 If you're concerned about becoming reliant on AP just don't get it. Half of us here don't have it, and the car is amazing without it.
     
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  3. democappy

    democappy Member

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    I am not an expert on this, but I did just go through the buying process and am in a similar boat as far what I usually get in a car. I will just give my thoughts and more knowledgeable people can correct me if wrong.

    1) I don't think I signed on the one hour test drive, but I did sign one when the let me do the 24 hour test drive. AS far as I know it just basically make it be my insurance and not theirs covering it. Honestly, I am not sure why this would impact your thoughts on actually owning the car as it has no impact once you have made the purchase.

    2) It is what it is. There is a legitimate reason for them to do it. Sure that reason is mainly to do with margins and not devaluing the 75, but it is not without reason. If you don't want to spend the money on it, then don't. I got a 60 and it is more than enough for my needs.

    3) I have not heard a lot of issues with there being things not covered by the warranty. I will let someone more knowledgeable than me respond on that one.

    4) If you are worried about it, just don't use it or don't buy it. Everyone on these forums acts like autopilot is the end all be all, but honestly the car is awesome without it. I do use it and I could see at times it maybe having it lull me a bit, but honestly I don't trust it near enough to not pay attention. It is probably safer than driving normal if you are not blatantly ignoring the fact you are driving a car. If you are even a moderately responsible driver I personally think it makes the drive safer and not more dangerous. Plus you really only use it on the interstate. I personal think the fatal crash was way overblown. Fear gets clicks and all that. A tragedy for sure, but it is not like everyone stops driving their cars every time there is a car crash.

    The only things that would personal sway me to not buying would be overall cost and if I really needed more range. A 60 is perfect for me in that regard, but might not be for your situation.
     
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  4. spooky981

    spooky981 Member

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    I get why you're upset about the battery pack thing. All these cars have the same battery which which is software gimped, and they charge $9k to UNgimp it. That's a premium!

    I'd only say that this happens more often than you think in the technology world. Televisions, RAM, and computer processors come to mind immediately. And it's smarter to manufacture a single battery type than four different ones.
     
  5. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    #2. On many phones memory upgrade costs many times it's value because people value it more. I think that's what Tesla was trying to explain.

    When you get longer range - you are not paying just for extra batteries but also for faster charging speed at SuperCharger, peace of mind and higher utility.

    #3. Wear and tear is never covered by standard warranty, on any car. Tesla has better warranty than most cars but it does have parts that wear out. Specifically Tesla covers 'drivetrain' for 8years/unlimited miles and anything else for 4years/50k. You still need to take care of regular maintenance such as inspections, brake pads, alignment, tires, windshield fluid etc

    #4. If you don't trust yourself with Autopilot - you should not use it. Autopilot takes care of more mundane tasks such maintaining speed and keeping car in line while at the same time it ADDS few burdens such as paying attention to what Autopilot is doing and deciding when it's appropriate to use it. AP is the best there is but it's not perfect and it's not autonomous.
     
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  6. Karen in MN

    Karen in MN Member

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    Thanks you guys. I have a real thing about honesty and forthcomingness. It just makes my internal alarm bells go off. I actually knew or got to know my last couple of car salesmen at Lexus and Toyota, and really totally trusted them and their advice. I didn't feel that way here.

    I can believe battery model is not a bad idea, but it is a different idea for me. I think I would go for 60 model, but I would like the ability to go cross country and not sure how crazy this would make me (I prefer to drive for 8-12 hour stretches and then stop for the night, so big change).

    Here is a link to one of the discussions about the suspension: Suspension Problem on Model S. This guy had a control arm failure. It's a really long thread. I have seen similar things elsewhere. There was also a thread someplace where the guy had purchased a CPO, took it home because he needed to use it, and had expected them to deal with pitting on glass and paint job but I think was not getting the response he expected. Couldn't find it again.

    I don't know a lot about cars, and I'm very frugal - so this adds to my nervousness. I don't want to buy a lemon! I want to be treated like a queen like I still am for my really-old Camry and was for my Lexus, where I feel like they will go out of their way to make things right at a fair price. I know there can be outliers for anything, but I just need to know that, in general, people are having good experience with their retailers.
     
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  7. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    #7 Vitold, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
    As long as you don't go mushroom picking on unpaved roads and take care of your car than you'll not have to worry about problems discussed in the thread you reference above (which is where TSLA shorts like to post).
     
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  8. Karen in MN

    Karen in MN Member

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    I live in Minnesota. Lots of salt on the roads. Consider that, and then look at this: Suspension Problem on Model S
     
  9. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    #9 Vitold, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
    I've followed that thread some time ago. To me it all came down to owners failure to follow recommended maintenance which would have prevented catastrophic failure he experienced.

    That thread is not worth vising because a lot of people who post there are investors who are betting against Tesla. In other words low on details and plenty of FUD. Also, it does not help when original poster is changing his story.
     
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  10. alexvirital

    alexvirital Member

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    On the battery, remember that there are advantages to both - I went with the 60, because I don't need the longer range, but like the faster charging. It's not that one's gimped or limited in some arbitrary way; it's that you can leverage some advantages and Tesla can streamline production at different levels, reducing overall cost and increasing production times.

    This isn't a "car" as much as it is a piece of tech - which is why I'm far more comfortable with it than any ICE i've ever owned. I'm a sysadmin, not a mechanic. Something goes wrong with software or hardware, I get it. I blow a "belt" causing a "gasket" to "do something"? No, no thanks. I don't need that in my life.

    But different people have different comfort levels!
     
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  11. democappy

    democappy Member

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    Just a couple additional thoughts. You have to remember this isn't a dealership and they are not exactly sales people. They are not out there hunting for their commission and it does drive their behavior in both good and bad ways. That makes the experience a bit different. I personally had an absolutely great experience, but that could be specific to me Service Center.

    You note being frugal and I will just note that nothing about a Tesla is frugal. It is an expensive car and it has a high margin as you are supporting their ability to roll-out the model 3, build out superchargers, and more. I bought it because I really believed in switching to an electric car and I have no problem paying more to support EVs becoming more popular and more feasible. Plus, of course, it is a great car and looks way better than other EVs. However, I also have the money for it. I am also frugal in nature (which is why I have a S60 and not a P90DL) and if this was going to come close to stretching my budget I probably wouldn't have bought it.
     
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  12. AB4EJ

    AB4EJ Member

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    A few random observations...

    I can identify with one's anxiety about a purchase this large. There is nothing that is without some risk; but consider the following:
    • You should definitely analyze your finances and be sure that you can afford the car. It takes the enjoyment out of even the nicest car if you will be constantly worrying about whether you can make the next payment. As long as you can afford it, then consider...
    • Most people who have bought a Tesla have been very pleased with it. On the other hand...
    • There have been many articles written about the Tesla both pro and con; be aware that many writers have an agenda (they own stock, they have sold stock short, they are creating click bait, they work for an oil company, they work for a power utility, etc.,etc.,) so you have to take what you read (online or in print) with a grain of salt.
    I worked in auto industry for over 30 years, and have owned many cars, acquired both new and used. I bought a new Model S about 3 months ago (8500 miles on it already!!) - and it has lived up to my very high expectations so far; there have been no problems with it necessitating a trip to the service center (great, because it is over 200 miles away). There have been a few weird software glitches that did not affect driveability (two console reboots for no apparent reason, and when playing internet podcasts, it plays then next one in the list instead of the one I selected - but this is a tiny thing); I may be overly understanding of these, since I am a software guy. But still, my car has been fine. This club is probably a good source to get info.

    On the issue of dealer performance - there are varying levels of skill in these (they are after all populated by human beings) - but the Marietta (GA) crew was very good.
     
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  13. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    1) There are some cars due to their powerful drivelines that are rarely given out for test drives. The big dog Tesla will go 120mph in 10 seconds and accelerates quicker than a Viper, Ferrari, Hellcat, etc. Signing a waiver is normal for driving an exotic, as well as proof of insurance.

    2) In the real world, most people do not drive 200 miles a day. And the Teslas have a supercharger network. You might not use the battery upgrade. It depends on your driving routine and your existing harem of cars/trucks.

    3) The Internet magnifies problems with cars. People post about problems. It's true for all brands. Toyota is not exempt. Read their forums.

    4) Personally, I fear autopilot being abused by CellPhone Addicts. It is a driver's aid, it is not the driver. But I would order the car with it, as it will improve the resale value.


    Drivers like EV's because it's currently (har) the best powertrain technology and drivability in existence today. It's easier and more fun to drive. There is no gas, diesel, or normal hybrid that has the instant fluid power of an EV. It's hard to go back to a gas car when you drive an EV for a while. And waking up with an 1/8th tank of fuel bites hard. You end up hating refueling your car.

    The Tesla is the top of the food chain when it comes to EV's. So yes, the price can be an issue for some folk.

    When it comes to environmental issues, Toyota has publically said they do not believe in electric cars. There is not a Toyota sold today what will run with a zero carbon footprint.

    Financially, EVs still do not make sense for the typical driver. Buying the best drivetrain or helping save the environment do cost something today. If there was no price differential, EV sales would skyrocket.
     
  14. dinkoh

    dinkoh Member

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    Given your concerns, location, and frugality, I think any Tesla probably isn't for you. Just wait and re-consider a Tesla M3. You can't think of Tesla as the same mature car company, like your favorite Toyota/Lexus.
     
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  15. Neohippy

    Neohippy Member

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    That's unfortunate because I would think Tesla would strive to be the best. Toyota/Lexus is one of if not the best. If Tesla wants to be successful to the mass market they better get on par with Toyota reliability.
     
  16. dinkoh

    dinkoh Member

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    Well, I'm not saying they won't be! Just not yet. I really hope they continue to progress and excel, like other major car companies.
     
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  17. Karen in MN

    Karen in MN Member

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    Really, thanks you guys for all your input. I am very fortunate that the financial hardship on me will be mostly to my frugal psyche - I do not like expensive mistakes. It will not break me financially. I will keep thinking on this and figure out my comfort level. I am, at least, very lucky to live 10 minutes away from the dealer!
     
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  18. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I'm still kinds in shock at how much I spent on the car (got my X75 Thursday,) and a little afraid because of the sheer scale of money involved.

    But the insurance increase wasn't much, and should cover the car if it comes to that - and the car itself is pretty amazing once you get used to it. :)
     
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  19. Karen in MN

    Karen in MN Member

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    Fingers crossed for you - hope you love it!
     
  20. JoNoSaisQuoi

    JoNoSaisQuoi Member

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    My car, Model X 75D, completed production early last week, it is on its way here to NJ and I am truly suffering from buyer's remorse. I had to rationalize the heck out of this purchase. It is a huge gadget and will eventually become worthless; it's only a car for heaven’s sake. Maybe I should have invested the funds into more real estate or my retirement. This is insane, I am planning to retire this December, I can afford it, I have been frugal, I have worked hard all of my life.

    I am a 63 year old single woman and I am tired of being invisible, so I ordered a multi-coat red one with a white interior. What was I thinking? Now I am worried that this gadget will attract too much attention. Should I wrap or not? Oh my god, I could go on and on.

    Then yesterday my son finally figured out how much I will be spending on this toy and hit the roof. I think I might name her "Senior Moment," and I will be going with a half wrap. If you do pull the trigger, check out the cost of wrapping, even more insanity.

    Your choice, if you can afford it, I understand your pain and even if you go ahead and order you may continue to struggle like me. I am going to go through with this, I deserve it, I am grateful for all of my success and do not take it for granted for a minute, treating myself does not come easily for me.

    I know I am not going to spend all my money before I die, my sons will get plenty, just $100,000 less! I am worth this. Now, I am re-thinking her name. See, if you enjoy allowing your mind rattle away go ahead and order. Trust me, it is not going to stop after you order. I sure hope that once she arrives I can relax and just enjoy my ride. It’s been an amazing journey so far.
     
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