Feelings about the “order fee” and dropping features

[Mike7564]

Wanted to float this to see others thoughts on it. Realize for most in the forum, this won’t apply to but worth asking.

Placed the order for a MYLT bavm
In the summer. Put down the “order fee” (Tesla is careful to avoid calling it a non-refundable deposit give laws in CA protecting consumers on that). But in the interim, has dropped feature after feature. Not big things but just item after item, making it less of a luxury car (in the $70-80k range) and more on par with a basic car. No ultrasonic sensors. Manual adjustment on passenger seat. Etc etc. Keep in mind, no action has been taken on the order (no VIN etc).

Seems a bit of bait and switch here. Take the non-refundable order fee. Then deliver a vehicle with different/less features 6 months later.

Surprised this isn’t overstepping some consumer protection laws. Or at least getting some lawyers interested.

 

[ord3r]

Yeah… kinda whack, these problems go away though if the backlog goes down and we don't end up waiting a year for the car

 

[house9]

Then deliver a vehicle with different/less features 6 months later.

With Tesla you are paying for battery and drive train tech.
Bonus: access to the best charging network in North America.

Manual adjustment on passenger seat.

First I have heard of that, are you sure you aren’t thinking about when they removed lower lumbar support from passenger seats?

 

[jjrandorin]

With Tesla you are paying for battery and drive train tech.
Bonus: access to the best charging network in North America.


First I have heard of that, are you sure you aren’t thinking about when they removed lower lumbar support from passenger seats?

Thats what I thought when I read that, too (removal of lumbar). I havent heard of manual adjustment of the passenger seat but this OP doesnt have a tesla vehicle yet so no telling what they heard, where (in relation to rumors I mean).

 

[ElectricAnt54]

Wanted to float this to see others thoughts on it. Realize for most in the forum, this won’t apply to but worth asking.

Placed the order for a MYLT bavm
In the summer. Put down the “order fee” (Tesla is careful to avoid calling it a non-refundable deposit give laws in CA protecting consumers on that). But in the interim, has dropped feature after feature. Not big things but just item after item, making it less of a luxury car (in the $70-80k range) and more on par with a basic car. No ultrasonic sensors. Manual adjustment on passenger seat. Etc etc. Keep in mind, no action has been taken on the order (no VIN etc).

Seems a bit of bait and switch here. Take the non-refundable order fee. Then deliver a vehicle with different/less features 6 months later.

Surprised this isn’t overstepping some consumer protection laws. Or at least getting some lawyers interested.

You can cancel your order. you can try to get back the $250 fee. keep in mind tesla model y prices rose around $8K and those features still are not in the car . Maybe Tesla is not the car for you?

 

[sleepydoc]

That's long been an issue with Tesla - the features are constantly changing so what you get is different from what was available when you ordered. In the past they frequently added things so there wasn't much to complain about but when they remove features then the should absolutely give you the right to cancel your order.

With Tesla you are paying for battery and drive train tech.

No. Statements like this are just an excuse and make it sound like we should be grateful to get anything extra when we get such a great battery. Do you ever say the same thing about any other car you buy? Sorry, I'm buying a car and the drivetrain is part of the package.

 

[bobbyjae]

Maybe wait it out. New car demand seems to be softening. In China, Tesla lowered prices by thousands of dollars. The competition is heating up.

I'm looking at a BMW iX or Rivian next time...

 

[Ogre]

I’d drop that stuff in a heartbeat for the better suspension the newer cars have.

Buy the car and you can trade it for mine with USS, radar, and the super stiff suspension.

 

[BitJam]

Seems a bit of bait and switch here. Take the non-refundable order fee. Then deliver a vehicle with different/less features 6 months later.

First, Tesla increased the order fee from $50 to $250 because people were gaming the system by placing and cancelling multiple orders when demand heated up about a year ago and backlogs started extending to months instead of weeks.

Second, while it's true Tesla removes some features, the cars in general get much better over time. Off the top of my head recent hardware improvements to the Model Y include: larger battery, Ryzen processor, bioweapon defense mode, more double pane glass, better suspension, improved rear door emergency release, and better cameras. These far outweigh losing passenger seat lumbar support adjustment. Any one of them far outweighs it.

Vision only cars generally work much better than the radar equipped cars did a year ago due to improvements in the AP and FSD stacks. I imagine we are going to see a similar thing with the removal of the ultrasonic sensors. This is certainly what Tesla is banking on.

OTOH, if you are not happy with these continual improvements and changes then you might be better off buying from a traditional automaker that adheres to the model-year release formula. I doubt there are grounds for a law suit to get your $250 back. But IIRC there may be a consent form you will need to sign acknowledging there will be no US sensors.

The announcements of removing radar and passenger side lumbar support adjustment were made shortly after I placed my order last summer. I was concerned and had similar "pig in a poke" misgivings. But looking back now it seems like it was deal of the lifetime because I got the car quickly and the price has increased by over $13K.

 

[Bp25]

There are actually two issues:
1. Reducing hardware after order placement.
2. Removing hardware connection from software in a software update.
The second one seems more problematic to me. Didn’t “vision only” disable radar even for the cars that has radar? Will they disable USS connections in a future release, and if so, will I have an option to not install it? I don’t see how they can legally cripple some hardware that I already paid for.

 

[tangible1]

Wanted to float this to see others thoughts on it. Realize for most in the forum, this won’t apply to but worth asking.

Placed the order for a MYLT bavm
In the summer. Put down the “order fee” (Tesla is careful to avoid calling it a non-refundable deposit give laws in CA protecting consumers on that). But in the interim, has dropped feature after feature. Not big things but just item after item, making it less of a luxury car (in the $70-80k range) and more on par with a basic car. No ultrasonic sensors. Manual adjustment on passenger seat. Etc etc. Keep in mind, no action has been taken on the order (no VIN etc).

Seems a bit of bait and switch here. Take the non-refundable order fee. Then deliver a vehicle with different/less features 6 months later.

Surprised this isn’t overstepping some consumer protection laws. Or at least getting some lawyers interested.

Have you done a accounting of the features that have been added or improved?
The stuff taken out is minutiae.
Have you found a better EV, then why haven't you bought that instead?

 

[Bp25]

Have you done a accounting of the features that have been added or improved?
The stuff taken out is minutiae.
Have you found a better EV, then why haven't you bought that instead?

I bought it, not lease or rent from Tesla. I own it, not Tesla, not anymore. Why do they think they can take away features that I already paid for, and why do you try to justify their behavior? Whether they added or improved something else are immaterial, I did not ask for those.

 

[tangible1]

I bought it, not lease or rent from Tesla. I own it, not Tesla, not anymore. Why do they think they can take away features that I already paid for, and why do you try to justify their behavior? Whether they added or improved something else are immaterial, I did not ask for those.

so you're really just here to complain.

 

[sleepydoc]

Have you done a accounting of the features that have been added or improved?
The stuff taken out is minutiae.
Have you found a better EV, then why haven't you bought that instead?

More often than not Tesla adds equipment, but the importance and relative value of what they add or remove is dependent on the individual.

Think about ordering a car from Ford and requesting ’Package A.’ After you order it Ford decides to take out the heated steering wheel and add a premium sound system and heads up display. Those are nice, but I don’t really care about them. Since I live in MN, the only reason I ordered package A was for the heated steering wheel so the value of the car and package has changed for me even though the nominal value of the items that were added was much more than what was removed.

 

[Bp25]

so you're really just here to complain.

That’s your point of view. I think I am pointing out a legitimate flaw in the way Tesla is dealing with the product after ordering and after selling. If you buy a sofa from a furniture store, will you let them come in later and remove a layer of foam because they think you don’t really need that?

 

[gx9901]

Just curious, does Tesla list features such as radar and USS somewhere when an order is placed? As far as I can tell they are not on the order page or the Model Y page on the website. Would it be correct to say that Tesla have not taken away things that are at least indicated on the order page?

 

[ucmndd]

Just curious, does Tesla list features such as radar and USS somewhere when an order is placed? As far as I can tell they are not on the order page or the Model Y page on the website.

This is exactly right. You didn’t order a car with “ultrasonic parking sensors” listed as a feature. You ordered a car with a set of capabilities listed. If Tesla decides they can deliver those capabilities with a different suite of hardware, they don’t owe you beans.

 

[Yelobird]

This is exactly right. You didn’t order a car with “ultrasonic parking sensors” listed as a feature. You ordered a car with a set of capabilities listed. If Tesla decides they can deliver those capabilities with a different suite of hardware, they don’t owe you beans.

Bingo! They never committed the buyer to no new future technology improvements. There is no entitlement clause in the buying agreement. Like the radar example. They seen this as a limiter to there progress to make a better car. As they progressed issues starting becoming Very problematic. I and many have seen a significant improvement since software upgrade and radar was disabled. Not all but progress forward. To jump on a soap box feeling they somehow robbed you of sensors seems a bit premature. Maybe just maybe see where they go with their solution. Might surprise you and be better aside from the endless speculation and heart ache. Good thing they didn’t take your ash tray and lighter away!

 

[sleepydoc]

Bingo! They never committed the buyer to no new future technology improvements. There is no entitlement clause in the buying agreement. Like the radar example. They seen this as a limiter to there progress to make a better car. As they progressed issues starting becoming Very problematic. I and many have seen a significant improvement since software upgrade and radar was disabled. Not all but progress forward. To jump on a soap box feeling they somehow robbed you of sensors seems a bit premature. Maybe just maybe see where they go with their solution. Might surprise you and be better aside from the endless speculation and heart ache. Good thing they didn’t take your ash tray and lighter away!

ah, but they do link to the owners manual on the specifications web page, so it is more than reasonable to assume the manual is representative of the car you are owning.

As far as disabling radar (or anything else,) if the capabilities truly are equivalent then most people wouldn't have an issue. Unfortunately, Tesla has a history of making changes with 'expected' functional equivalence that turn out not to be the case, at least not for quite some time. In these cases they are delivering a car that is functionally inferior with the promise of improvements.

In the case of the ultrasonic sensors, there are very real and legitimate concerns about the camera functionality being inferior. The ultrasonic sensors in my are are accurate to within 1 inch. I'm very doubtful the cameras will be that accurate, especially in areas they can't see.

 

[jjrandorin]

ah, but they do link to the owners manual on the specifications web page, so it is more than reasonable to assume the manual is representative of the car you are owning.

The owners manual has a bunch of "if equipped" statements so not sure how that matters.