Female engineer sues Tesla, describing a culture of 'pervasive harassment

[bonnie]

What was your point then? That we should ignore instances of women being hired over men because more men are hired over women?

The point is that arguing of instances where a woman is hired over what you perceive as a 'more qualified man' is a non-argument. It happens. And there are plenty of instances where a particular male engineer is hired over what others perceive as a more qualified man. Or men hired over women. And people arguing that one was more qualified than the other might not be aware of other skills being brought to the table. Or a bad reference check. Or whatever.

A diverse team results in better products. THAT was my point.

 

[DillyBop]

Her suit was filed last year... so, if anyone is being opportunist, it's The Guardian.

Based on my own experience in Silicon Valley tech/IT, the experiences of people I know, and my wife's experience as an engineer in both SV tech and the defense industry, I wouldn't doubt this woman's story for a second and, sadly, I don't find it the slightest bit surprising. It's also troubling that people seem to want to compartmentalize this problem and treat it as though it's a Silicon Valley problem when it's not... it's a larger societal one that crosses regions and industries.

1 - i stand corrected

2 - i agree with you completely. the problem is everywhere of course. but isn't the problem WORSE in Silicon Valley because of the predominance of men there?

 

[bonnie]

I'd like to also point out that the very best defense against discrimination in the work place was my fellow male engineers. (Like @stevezzzz and countless others, who I always knew had my back )

If I spoke up that things were unfair, I would have been considered just a whiny woman. Or 'that time of month'. (Yep, heard that.) But when a male colleague spoke up, it did two things: It built team loyalty AND people took the complaint more seriously (sadly).)

Vendor calls me 'Princess'? My colleagues mocked him. Someone ignores me in a meeting and talks over me? My colleagues would deliberately ask me what I just said and give me the air time.

The best example was when I was in a meeting with a client with about 10 other people. All male. I was the 2nd most senior person in the room and furthest from the door. The client looked around the room, handed me a stack of papers, and said 'here, we need copies for everyone.'

So sure, that could happen to anyone. Maybe it wasn't because I was female. In any case, I took the papers and headed out to the copier - it was a CLIENT with a checkbook. Not going to confront.

I'm at the copier, mumbling away. And the next thing I knew, Randy, a VP at the company and the more senior person in that meeting was taking the papers out of my hands, saying he'd finish the copying and to get back in there. He sent a great message that day by letting the client know I was needed in the meeting, not copying reports - and it left me feeling supported / respected by the company and my colleagues.

Management is ultimately responsible. In the case I just gave, I had a great manager. And we're still friends, all these years later.

 

[ohmman]

i agree with you completely. the problem is everywhere of course. but isn't the problem WORSE in Silicon Valley because of the predominance of men there?

It's possible it's worse in Silicon Valley because of the tech industry, which has been male dominated for some time. But there are plenty of industries that are male dominated, so it's probably hard to determine whether it's worse in Detroit or Silicon Valley or Wall Street. Safe enough to just say it's bad everywhere.

 

[Off Shore]

The aerospace industry, has swung the complete opposite way. Female engineers are now frequently hired over better qualified male applicants. They are promoted more frequently with less qualifications. They get more opportunities and get far more recognition for their accomplishments than their male counterparts.

Yeah, and Democrats regularly eat Republican's babies. You have some data to back up those claims, of course?

 

[Owner]

Based on my own experience in Silicon Valley tech/IT, the experiences of people I know, and my wife's experience as an engineer in both SV tech and the defense industry, I wouldn't doubt this woman's story for a second and, sadly, I don't find it the slightest bit surprising. It's also troubling that people seem to want to compartmentalize this problem and treat it as though it's a Silicon Valley problem when it's not... it's a larger societal one that crosses regions and industries.

I completely agree with you. Sexism is alive, well and often subtle. HR in most places in Silicon Valley including Uber don't do anything about it. Probably bigger more established older companies have a better handle on the blatant stuff.

 

[Vitold]

Office politics affect both men, women and inbetween. I think in this case she was disliked because she decided to go against the grain (complained about QC while others kept quiet) - not because she was a woman. If proven that managers ignored her valid concerns (and punished her for it) they should get reprimanded not because they ignored a woman but because they were not good managers. Hostile work environment should also be addressed, again, not just because she was a woman.

 

[Az_Rael]

The best example was when I was in a meeting with a client with about 10 other people. All male. I was the 2nd most senior person in the room and furthest from the door. The client looked around the room, handed me a stack of papers, and said 'here, we need copies for everyone.'

I had a similar experience once as a younger engineer. We had a small meeting room where we did design weight reviews. The first one I attended, I arrived early and sat on one side of the table. The weights lead arrived and asked me to change seats. I figured there must be some seat assignments I wasnt aware of, so the next time I made sure to sit in a different seat. That time the weights lead walked in late to a standing room only meeting. He looked around the room then pointed at me (across the room), and said "you, move" so he could sit at the table. I didn't want to make a scene, so I got up and let him have the chair.

I was the only female in the room so make of that what you will (its hard to say why he chose me out of everyone in the room), but it was nice when everyone else in the room was shocked he had done that, then several proceeded to offer me a seat.

 

[bonnie]

I was the only female in the room so make of that what you will (its hard to say why he chose me out of everyone in the room), but it was nice when everyone else in the room was shocked he had done that, then several proceeded to offer me a seat.

That makes me smile. It's nice when you know your colleagues have your back.

 

[CuriousG]

I also don't buy the claim of pervasive harassment because of examples given in the article - such as cat calling or 30-40 man and her at one meeting. I do get that she is not happy and that's what prompted the lawsuit.

I think it's plausible. Have you seen the Tesla parking lot? They're animals!

 

[Pezpunk]

1 - i stand corrected

2 - i agree with you completely. the problem is everywhere of course. but isn't the problem WORSE in Silicon Valley because of the predominance of men there?

it's not regional. it's more about the field than the location. i'm in the DC area tech industry, and i've witnessed first hand the indignities and discrimination women endure. sometimes these things have been overt, but more often the discrimination was subtle or even probably unconscious on the part of the guy doing it. for example, i had a boss who in every meeting would pick a person to be the designated note taker, and he always picked one of the woman engineers to do it. i'm sure they loved being the stenographer for all our brilliant male thoughts.

there was another guy who would make it a point to critique one of our woman engineer's outfit every day. i mean usually he said nice things, but day after day of uninvited analysis of what this woman is wearing, even if it's a compliment, is demeaning. she applied for this job to write code, not have her attractiveness assessed out loud on a daily basis.

one of the biggest problems is that it's almost impossible to point out or correct irksome behavior. even if a woman tries to write a note privately, as non-confrontationally as possible, asking politely and trying hard to explain why the behavior bothers her, and how she realizes it wasn't done maliciously etc, the guy will almost always over-react and start a vendetta and start trash-talking her behind her back, and so on. i'm speaking from specific examples i've witnessed. it's really tough for a woman to try to tell a man something he's doing bothers her, without that guy blowing up on her, even if she's bent over backwards to try to protect his feelings.

i'm a software engineer and i work mostly on DoD contracts. i've worked with some truly brilliant minds, both male and female. but even brilliant people can be blind to how they are trampling on others, or be unable to step outside themselves to see it from the other side.

 

[Vitold]

it's not regional. it's more about the field than the location. i'm in the DC area tech industry, and i've witnessed first hand the indignities and discrimination women endure. sometimes these things have been overt, but more often the discrimination was subtle or even probably unconscious on the part of the guy doing it. for example, i had a boss who in every meeting would pick a person to be the designated note taker, and he always picked one of the woman engineers to do it. i'm sure they loved being the stenographer for all our brilliant male thoughts.

Someone had to do it. It appears you consider note taking as a demeaning task. What happened when a woman objected to note taking?

one of the biggest problems is that it's almost impossible to point out or correct irksome behavior. even if a woman tries to write a note privately, as non-confrontationally as possible, asking politely and trying hard to explain why the behavior bothers her, and how she realizes it wasn't done maliciously etc, the guy will almost always over-react and start a vendetta and start trash-talking her behind her back, and so on. i'm speaking from specific examples i've witnessed. it's really tough for a woman to try to tell a man something he's doing bothers her, without that guy blowing up on her, even if she's bent over backwards to try to protect his feelings.

Yeah, some people don't even know they are being obnoxious. However, given the first statement you are maybe avoiding confrontation and if you have not perhaps outcome would have been different (probably it's best to handle it through HR)

signed
Dr. Phil

 

[Pezpunk]

i just thought of another one. i was in a meeting with a former telecom CEO, my boss (a woman and owner of a defense contracting firm), and several others. My boss was the only female. the telecom CEO was explaining some aspect of logistics and overseas data rates, or something. he wasn't dumbing it down for anyone or using childish analogies, until my boss asked a question. he then looked at her, and said, "well, here, this will help you understand. it's like when you go shopping for shoes..." i don't remember what came after that because i was too busy giving a giant "can you believe this guy" spock eyebrow to my boss for the rest of the meeting.

 

[Az_Rael]

Someone had to do it

Yes, someone has to take notes at meetings. It's just weird when only one gender is picked for the task and it isn't shared amongst everyone.

 

[Pezpunk]

Someone had to do it. It appears you consider note taking as a demeaning task. What happened when a woman objected to note taking?

it becomes demeaning when it is a woman chosen 100% of the time. and of course a woman in the tech industry has to choose her battles carefully, so probably wouldn't choose that particular indignity unless it was a "last straw" type of situation.

 

[Tam]

Subpar Quality Control seems to be an acceptable culture as pointed out by the lawsuit.

It sounds like if you want promotion or to keep your job, you need not to ask too many questions on behalf of your customers but you need to keep ignoring the flaws and just going along with your team.

Those flaws will eventually be discovered by customers who got new deliveries and will be known by the public. Then, that will be the time for the team to change, but not before.

"...there were inadequacies in the quality testing of cars, and that she raised issues about the flaws she observed, which supervisors and male engineers had missed.

Although she came up with a solution, men were granted positions above her, her lawyers wrote. She and other female engineers were denied promotions even though they were “equally or more qualified” than the men, according to the complaint."

 

[Vitold]

it becomes demeaning when it is a woman chosen 100% of the time. and of course a woman in the tech industry has to choose her battles carefully, so probably wouldn't choose that particular indignity unless it was a "last straw" type of situation. this is pretty obvious stuff to anyone who's seen or experienced it, and yet i'm sure you have no idea what i'm talking about.

Touche.

 

[Pezpunk]

Yeah, some people don't even know they are being obnoxious. However, given the first statement you are maybe avoiding confrontation and if you have not perhaps outcome would have been different (probably it's best to handle it through HR)

signed
Dr. Phil

if you go through HR, then the dude says "why didn't you TELL me you didn't like [behavior x]! i would have stopped!"

 

[SteveG3]

haven't seen anyone post this bit from San Jose Mercury News

"Until somebody stands up, nothing is going to change,” Vandermeyden told the Guardian in her first comments about the lawsuit she filed last year. “I’m an advocate of Tesla. I really do believe they are doing great things. That said, I can’t turn a blind eye if there’s something fundamentally wrong going on.” "

I'm cautiously optimistic that Tesla will handle this in a way that shows it values treating all with equal respect and appreciation.

 

[davidc18]

Did you catch the part where she pointed out QC issues with cars coming off the line and nothing was done? Fits with what gets reported here regarding the lack of QC coming out of the factory.