Fewer AVCON charging stations

[EVnut]

Sometimes the Avcons can be out of commission due to tripped breaker, etc.
Having a "plan B" on a long drive is useful, so it would be unfortunate if we get down to one Avcon per region.

All true. And there are several things to keep in mind:

1. We realize that minimum infrastructure can be inconvenient - those of us who work on the charging infrastructure are all EV drivers too.
2. We realize that we can't make everybody happy.

The volunteer effort to keep current public infrastructure working and constantly updated is no easy task. It takes time, effort and money. We (and when I say "we" please understand that I only play a small role in this) are doing what we can with what we've got.

The short term could be somewhat painful. In the end, it should all be worth it. The most-used charger is always going to be the one at home. Public charging will add convenience and longer range - but still isn't required for EVs to be useful and pleasurable to operate.

 

[dpeilow]

When the Tesla charger is installed, why are the Avcons removed?

 

[TEG]

The above configuration, in particular, has me a wee bit concerned.
I think the smaller interface box tells the Roadster that 40amp draw is OK if you have a NEMA14-50 cable plugged in, but the Avcon EVSE likely has a 40amp breaker, with 32amp max expected draw. So if Roadster owners don't manually change the charge rate to 32amps they could trip the breaker on the Avcon EVSE. So not only are we shrinking the number of available Avcons, we may also be risking disabling the remaining ones. Getting a place to reset the breaker on their public chargers can sometimes take a while as they don't always have that as a very high priority task. ("I don't even know where the breaker is for that thing" is not unexpected). I suppose overdrawing through the EVSE could also risk damaging the EVSE.

 

[TEG]

But word is from those who have them {Avcon adapters} say don't bother buying them.

Why? They don't end up getting used much? They don't work well?

 

[TEG]

When the Tesla charger is installed, why are the Avcons removed?

They aren't always. But in some cases there is no provision to add another breaker and more wiring, so it becomes 'convenient' to rip out the Avcon EVSE and reuse the wiring and breaker it was using.

 

[TEG]

...there are several things to keep in mind:

1. We realize that minimum infrastructure can be inconvenient - those of us who work on the charging infrastructure are all EV drivers too.
2. We realize that we can't make everybody happy.

The volunteer effort to keep current public infrastructure working and constantly updated is no easy task. It takes time, effort and money. We (and when I say "we" please understand that I only play a small role in this) are doing what we can with what we've got.

The short term could be somewhat painful. In the end, it should all be worth it. The most-used charger is always going to be the one at home. Public charging will add convenience and longer range - but still isn't required for EVs to be useful and pleasurable to operate.

Yes, thanks for all you and those others have done.

Just don't forget us Avcon users. Many of the primary charge station maintainers are Rav4EV drivers, so given a choice to yank out a small paddle or Avcon, I bet the Avcon is the loser more often than not.

Have any SPIs been removed and replaced with a Tesla charging station?

 

[EVnut]

Yes, thanks for all you and those others have done.

Just don't forget us Avcon users. Many of the primary charge station maintainers are Rav4EV drivers, so given a choice to yank out a small paddle or Avcon, I bet the Avcon is the loser more often than not.

Please note that it was us Rav4EV drivers who had the Avcons *reinstalled* where they were originally removed for the Tesla chargers in our area. While it is true that most of us drive Rav4EVs, this brings up the point that there *ARE* more Rav4EVs than any other production car on the road. Today we need both inductive and conductive. The deal with inductive cars, is that we cannot use a 220V outlet unless we schlep our 80 pound charger with us. Conductive cars can use an outlet... and an Avcon, etc... with a relatively cheap and lightweight adapter.

Like I said, we are doing our best to be fair to everybody - and in the meantime, we've got NEVs blocking these dang things! We've put plenty of effort into saving the Avcons where we can. What has happend in the past is that the PG&E folks come in and talk to the site owners without discussing anything with us... and the next thing we know, there is a Tesla charger hanging there and maybe the Avcon is removed. We then go back to PG&E and figure out a way to keep most if not all fo the infrastructure that we originally had. In other words - we aren't the ones to complain to! We're the ones on your side - and the side of all EV drivers.

Have any SPIs been removed and replaced with a Tesla charging station?

Of the installations that I've been associated with in my area, NO chargers have been replaced with Tesla chargers. In the woodland installation - all new installation - we put in TWO Avcons, one SPI and on Tesla charger. The decision as to what four chargers to install was all ours (you know - us Rav4EV drivers) and this is what was chosen.

Please believe me when I say that we're not out to screw Avcon drivers. ON the contrary - we're doing everything we can to keep them.

 

[vfx]

...that there *ARE* more Rav4EVs than any other production car on the road.

For about 3 more months...

 

[TEG]

The deal with inductive cars, is that we cannot use a 220V outlet unless we schlep our 80 pound charger with us. Conductive cars can use an outlet... and an Avcon, etc... with a relatively cheap and lightweight adapter.

The RangerEV expects a handshake with the charge station, so it isn't really much more flexible. It can only accept 240V@32amp... No 120V charging. No charging from a standard 240V outlet unless I bring the whole charge station with me. Can you tell me more about this "cheap and lightweight adapter" that I can use to hook up my RangerEV without an Avcon charging station?

 

[dpeilow]

They aren't always. But in some cases there is no provision to add another breaker and more wiring, so it becomes 'convenient' to rip out the Avcon EVSE and reuse the wiring and breaker it was using.

Thought so, but why couldn't an A<->B selector switch be installed to switch between chargers? After all, only one vehicle can be parked in the space at once.

 

[TEG]

Yes, that thought occurred to me as well. Perhaps there is no easy/cheap consumer friendly switch at those current/voltage levels? EVnut: do you have any comment on this idea?

 

[dpeilow]

This would work: Proteus - Products - 100A 2P GRP ENCLOSED (IP65) CHANGEOVER SWITCH

£300 for 100A
£225 for 63A
£65 for 32A

 

[doug]

I guess I'll ask my question again. Do we know how many Avcon users are out there? (Not how many different types of vehicles might use the connectors, I mean actual drivers using the charging stations.) Maybe EVnut knows?

 

[TEG]

Nobody knows for sure. And really we are talking about California here primarily. The rest of the country is probably just a handful.

I would guess on the order of one or two thousand total.

Being that my only EV right now is Avcon based I have a personal interest in seeing as many Avcons as possible preserved. On the other hand, most of the Avcon based EVs could be considered "short range", so Avcons far from urban areas are not likely to see much use. The Roadster (on the other hand) has a much longer range so it has more opportunity to take advantage of Roadster chargers at more distant locations.

Also, the number of Roadsters is growing, and the number of Avcon based vehicles is slowly shrinking. So, yeah, the writing is on the wall...

One of the only remaining places to do battery services on RangerEVs is in Sacramento, so a series of Avcons between SF Peninsula and Sacramento could come in handy for me someday. Personally I have never driven my truck outside of the immediate bay area so far.

LA of course has a lot of Avcon infrastructure and many RangerEVs on the road there.

 

[vfx]

...so avcons far from urban areas are not likely to see much use. The roadster ... Has a much longer range so it has more opportunity to take advantage of roadster chargers at more distant locations.

???!!!



.

 

[EVnut]

For about 3 more months...

Yup. And that's why public Tesla stations are starting to make sense...

Can you tell me more about this "cheap and lightweight adapter" that I can use to hook up my RangerEV without an Avcon charging station?

I meant a cheap and lightweight Avcon charging station. This is the one I used on my Ranger. By comparison of the other chargers I've used, this is convenient, light weight and cheap. And plugs into any 240V/30A source.

more here: Portable Avcon

Thought so, but why couldn't an A<->B selector switch be installed to switch between chargers? After all, only one vehicle can be parked in the space at once.

It can be, and we've done it. It just means buying MORE expensive chargers (that by default are now used half as often) and finding a way to mount them, etc. It can be done, and has been done, yes.

I guess I'll ask my question again. Do we know how many Avcon users are out there? (Not how many different types of vehicles might use the connectors, I mean actual drivers using the charging stations.) Maybe EVnut knows?

Very hard to track that down since so many home-builts have used it. It is likely in the thousands in CA.

What we *need* is a standard conductive that can then be adapted to anything else. At least with conductive we *can* adapt. Not possible with inductive. I won't be sorry to see it go.

 

[vfx]

... This is the one I used on my Ranger. By comparison of the other chargers I've used, this is convenient, light weight and cheap. And plugs into any 240V/30A source.

So can the 240 plug be *snipped* off and a Tesla -or more correctly, a J connector put on that end?

Or is it not that simple?

 

[dpeilow]

Thought so, but why couldn't an A<->B selector switch be installed to switch between chargers? After all, only one vehicle can be parked in the space at once.

It can be, and we've done it. It just means buying MORE expensive chargers (that by default are now used half as often) and finding a way to mount them, etc. It can be done, and has been done, yes.

I see what you mean, but I meant specifically in the situation where you have the existing charger being taken out and the new (Tesla?) one to be installed. The only real expense is the switch.

If the signals are the same, they're both Clipper Creek and the station is limited to 32A because of upstream wiring, could you put the switch on the vehicle side of the charger and just add on a Tesla cable in addition to the Avcon cable - thus saving an entire charger?

 

[TEG]

So can the 240 plug be *snipped* off and a Tesla -or more correctly, a J connector put on that end?
Or is it not that simple?

There are pilot/safety interlock signals to consider. A Roadster doesn't want to charge unless it thinks a real Tesla charge cable is plugged in (but I gather it can be fooled).

Also a Tesla charge station is not likely to offer a charge unless it thinks a Tesla car is plugged in. It isn't totally clear (to me at least) if my RangerEV is capable of generating the proper signaling to trigger a Tesla charging station to activate for me. So even if I had an adapter it might not work so easily.

Some have suggested that J1772-2009 will offer some level of backwards compatibility with J1772-1996, so I think there is more likelihood that some sort of Avcon <-> J1771/Yazaki will be offered.

Lets put it this way - is there any way to charge a RangerEV from a Tesla charge station today?

We have seen multiple cases where Tesla cars have plugged into Avcon chargers using adapters... So shouldn't the reverse be "fair"? If it was easy for me to get an adapter to plug my Avcon cable into a Tesla charge station, then in that case it would be all systems go to replace them. At the moment, as far as I can tell, we have one way compatability. Teslas can charge at Tesla charge stations or Avcon charge stations, but Avcon vehicles cannot charge at Tesla charge stations.

 

[TEG]

I meant a cheap and lightweight Avcon charging station. This is the one I used on my Ranger. By comparison of the other chargers I've used, this is convenient, light weight and cheap. And plugs into any 240V/30A source.
more here: Portable Avcon

How much does that cost? Where can I buy it?

(Also, when you say "any 240V/30A" source I think you mean any 240V with 40-50amp breaker that can be adapted to NEMA14-50.)