Final Decision: Is Going from AWD to P Worth $9,946-$12,946?

[tvad]

Jeebus, do you grind on all your daily decisions like this?

It’s just a car.

Man up and make a decision.

 

[candyfordays]

Jeebus, do you grind on all your daily decisions like this?

Yes.

 

[Sutton 3P]

Eating the depreciation on a one-month-old car to upgrade to one that's a little bit quicker off the line, is fine if you are loaded and don't know what else to do with your money.

I wouldn't call 30% faster "a little bit quicker". C'mon, it's clear he needs this car.

 

[Knightshade]

I wouldn't call 30% faster "a little bit quicker".

30% quicker?

The AWD is 4.0 (when measured the same way as the P).

30% quicker would mean the P does 2.8... which it certainly doesn't.

20% is a lot nearer correct.

If you want extra math you then have to consider what % of your driving is 0-60 (because north of 60 the difference almost entirely vanishes).

For some folks that's like 99% of their driving, so even 20% might make a huge day to day difference.

For me it's maybe I dunno 5% of my driving? The other 95% is highway driving at speeds where there's little to no difference between the cars, so 20% quicker 5% of the time is...not much...

 

[skrtskrt]

The bottom line is.. yes you should get it. You know deep down you want to. You gotta scratch that itch!!

Dont be that guy that sees a Model 3 Performance in the streets and say to yourself “Damn, I should’ve gotten the performance! Look at those brake calipers ”. Honestly it’s worth it imo and I dont even track my car. Its just makes everything more fun when I go out and do errands. I always stomp on the pedal at stoplights and stop signs 0-speed limit and it never gets old.

 

[daniel]

I accelerate hard whenever the opportunity presents. The Roadster's acceleration (around 4 seconds to 60) was a real rush. But even my LR RWD is so quick it leaves all the other cars behind. And now that my electricity is free, there's no reason to conserve energy. By 2:00 p.m. my solar panels shut down because the Powerwalls are full and there's nowhere for the energy to go except when the A/C comes on.

But you know what? I don't miss the slightly quicker acceleration of the Roadster. The difference between 4 and 5.1 (?) is hardly noticeable. Here's something else curious: When the Model S appeared in trim lines that were quicker than my Roadster I felt bad that mine was no longer the quickest car. The Roadster was supposed to be a quick car, but then was no longer the quickest. Now that I've got a car that's not supposed to be the quickest, I feel no envy at all towards people who have the quicker trim lines. It's much more important to me that my car is comfortable, has a great sound system, has EAP, and runs on free, zero-carbon solar energy.

 

[trm2]

I'd love to see a breakdown of ages by those saying to do the trade vs those that say don't.







PS. Yes, I am north of 50 and think it would be a terrible idea to take that kind of hit on a one month old car. WARNING: Harsh sentence coming up. If you have more money than brains, upgrade, more brains than money, don't.

 

[Apprunner]

I accelerate hard whenever the opportunity presents. The Roadster's acceleration (around 4 seconds to 60) was a real rush. But even my LR RWD is so quick it leaves all the other cars behind. And now that my electricity is free, there's no reason to conserve energy. By 2:00 p.m. my solar panels shut down because the Powerwalls are full and there's nowhere for the energy to go except when the A/C comes on.

But you know what? I don't miss the slightly quicker acceleration of the Roadster. The difference between 4 and 5.1 (?) is hardly noticeable. Here's something else curious: When the Model S appeared in trim lines that were quicker than my Roadster I felt bad that mine was no longer the quickest car. The Roadster was supposed to be a quick car, but then was no longer the quickest. Now that I've got a car that's not supposed to be the quickest, I feel no envy at all towards people who have the quicker trim lines. It's much more important to me that my car is comfortable, has a great sound system, has EAP, and runs on free, zero-carbon solar energy.

If i lived in Hawaii, i'd get the LR RWD...there is just no place to speed there. If you live in So-cal, the Performance is worth every penny...so many places to drive your car (as long as its not in rush hour). I felt there is a pretty noticeable speed difference between ~4 sec vs. ~3 seconds. I also appreciate the better handling package as so-cal roads are pretty nice. If the OP can afford to buy it without financial burden, the Performance version is a much better car.

 

[zyzz]

definitely not worth it and Tesla agrees which is why they've been continually lowering price to meet demand. I would contest the existence of LR AWDs with performance speed but save for the hardware upgrades further indicates that Tesla understands it may be overpriced

 

[Knightshade]

I also appreciate the better handling package as so-cal roads are pretty nice.

If he's considering a P3D- the handling is exactly the same as the car he has now (except arguably the benefits of track mode if you choose to use it on public roads)

If he's looking at the P3D+ it's all of 0.39 inches lower- but nobody's really demonstrated any appreciable difference between that and stock from a performance handling sense... (just from a "much more likely to kill your wheels on potholes" sense)[/QUOTE]

 

[Sutton 3P]

30% quicker?

The AWD is 4.0 (when measured the same way as the P).

30% quicker would mean the P does 2.8... which it certainly doesn't.

20% is a lot nearer correct.

If you want extra math you then have to consider what % of your driving is 0-60 (because north of 60 the difference almost entirely vanishes).

For some folks that's like 99% of their driving, so even 20% might make a huge day to day difference.

For me it's maybe I dunno 5% of my driving? The other 95% is highway driving at speeds where there's little to no difference between the cars, so 20% quicker 5% of the time is...not much...

If you take user measured numbers of 4.0 for AWD then you should also accept the measured number of ~3.0 for P3D. 4.0*.7 = 2.8 as you claim but 4.0*.8 = 3.2. So actually both numbers are equally far for the correct value of 25% in this case.

That's some weird math with regards to what speed you're driving most of the time (which is apparently 100 mph ). What you should actually look at is where most of your acceleration happens, and even if you're driving at 100 mph on average almost all of the acceleration is happening in a range where the P3D is significantly faster. If you live near a city or have to deal with any kind of traffic (or drive near the actual speed limit) then acceleration above 70 mph has pretty much no relevance to you. If you live in the sticks, then acceleration has little value beyond entertainment.

nobody's really demonstrated any appreciable difference between that and stock from a performance handling sense

You can demonstrate it to yourself by reading the tire specs.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

measured number of ~3.0 for P3D

Source? I have a P3D+ and with everything removed from the car and my 155 pounds in it, it's about 3.17s (VBOX), not including rollout time. 3 seconds is absolutely unattainable without removing weight or going downhill. No matter how light your aftermarket wheels (unless you make them non-stock diameter). 3.1s is about as good as it gets and you have to be light. And probably doing it while it is super hot at high elevation will net you some tiny gains as well.

 

[yerEVan]

30% quicker?

The AWD is 4.0 (when measured the same way as the P).

30% quicker would mean the P does 2.8... which it certainly doesn't.

20% is a lot nearer correct.

If you want extra math you then have to consider what % of your driving is 0-60 (because north of 60 the difference almost entirely vanishes).

For some folks that's like 99% of their driving, so even 20% might make a huge day to day difference.

For me it's maybe I dunno 5% of my driving? The other 95% is highway driving at speeds where there's little to no difference between the cars, so 20% quicker 5% of the time is...not much...

I lent my buddy my vbox, and he has an AWD, non-P, and his 1ft rollout speed was sub 4 seconds actually. i think 3.89ish. couple of feet downward slope, so not much.

 

[yerEVan]

Source? I have a P3D+ and with everything removed from the car and my 155 pounds in it, it's about 3.17, without rollout. 3 seconds is absolutely unattainable without removing weight or going downhill. No matter how light your aftermarket wheels (unless you make them non-stock diameter). 3.1 is about as good as it gets and you have to be light. And probably doing it while it is super hot at high elevation will net you some tiny gains as well.

i had 3.15 (P3D-) without removing anything from the car (tuxmats, etc), with 1Ft rollout. But i agree, i don't think you can get sub 3, unless maybe you remove the back seats, tires, and battery.

 

[airbil]

If $$$ is an issue do NOT do it.
If it’s not; DO it.
Chance of a lifetime to own/drive a #SuperCar. YOLO

 

[Knightshade]

If you take user measured numbers of 4.0

4.0 is the actual professional magazine test number, not just "rando on the internet" number.

2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor First Test Review - MotorTrend

This 4,062-pound Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor hit 60 mph in just 4.0 seconds and passed the quarter-mile finish line in 12.5 seconds at 113.1 mph

4.4 is the Tesla published number because Tesla is deceptively using different measurements for their P models compared to every other model they sell.

P 0-60 includes 1 foot rollout. Non-P numbers don't.

Everybody else on earth (car mags, and every other car maker) doesn't lie like that. They use the same measure for all their models numbers.

That's some weird math with regards to what speed you're driving most of the time (which is apparently 100 mph )

Not sure where you get that from....

The P is ~0.8-0.9 quicker to 60.... at the end of the 1/4 mile, nearly double that speed, the P is... still about the same amount quicker. And with a trap speed within ~2 mph.

This suggests that after 60 the cars are virtually a dead heat (and there's more data showing that as well- the P being very very very slightly faster after 60- versus below 60 where it's 20%+ faster).

. What you should actually look at is where most of your acceleration happens

That's at highway speed.

Where the 2 cars are virtually identical.

, and even if you're driving at 100 mph on average almost all of the acceleration is happening in a range where the P3D is significantly faster.

Nope, sure isn't.

If you live near a city or have to deal with any kind of traffic (or drive near the actual speed limit) then acceleration above 70 mph has pretty much no relevance to you. If you live in the sticks, then acceleration has little value beyond entertainment.

I live in the sticks I suppose... but it's 15-25 minutes to several (for NC) major cities including the state capitol.

Leaving my house I touch nothing but one-lane-each-way roads for about 4 miles.... then about 20-40 minutes of interstate highway depending where I'm going.

If where I'm going is work, once I exit the highway I go all of 1 block from exit ramp to a stoplight where I turn left, then left again a couple hundred feet later into work.

So basically in a typical day I could notice the difference between an AWD and a P for:

About 3-4 seconds turning onto the one-way-each-way road going between house and interstate.. (if there happens to be no traffic when I turn left onto that road)

and

About 3-4 seconds on the highway on-ramp (again assuming no traffic)

and... that's about it. I guess same deal coming back...

So about 12-16 seconds of the hour plus of driving I do in a typical day. If there's 0 traffic and I wish to floor it those few times I can do so from anything much under highway speed.

And there's literally -0- times in the entire trip- either direction- I'd ever be stopped a a light next to another car to "race" for the folks who're fans of that.


Certainly weekends and trips present some opportunities to really accelerate from low speeds... but day to day? Nope.

The quicker than 95% of cars 4 seconds of the AWD is great- but it's EAP that makes the car awesome day to day since it takes 90% of the stress of the drive away.



I don't know the OPs situation... but I do know how rarely _I_ would get anything out of a P versus my AWD (which is why I've mentioned elsewhere even if they did ever offer a software P unlock to AWD owners it'd have to be cheaper-than-is-likely for me to be interested)

 

[Mikey122687]

Just do it man

When I got mine, I had to go out and sell my Kidney but it's totally worth it!

 

[Apprunner]

If he's considering a P3D- the handling is exactly the same as the car he has now (except arguably the benefits of track mode if you choose to use it on public roads)

If he's looking at the P3D+ it's all of 0.39 inches lower- but nobody's really demonstrated any appreciable difference between that and stock from a performance handling sense... (just from a "much more likely to kill your wheels on potholes" sense)

[/QUOTE]

It comes with the PS4s which are far better than the stock 18s. I test drove both...stock the Performance pack makes a big difference on grip.

 

[Sutton 3P]

This suggests that after 60 the cars are virtually a dead heat (and there's more data showing that as well- the P being very very very slightly faster after 60- versus below 60 where it's 20%+ faster). ...

That's at highway speed.

Where the 2 cars are virtually identical.

Have a look here and you can see the difference in HP is about 100 (450 vs 350) at 60 mph (7k rpm). I'm not knocking AWD, which is clearly a very fast car, and I realize that some people may have no need or interest in having a faster car. That doesn't mean the difference is insignificant.

I can tell you the only time I need acceleration above 70 mph is when I'm trying to pass someone who is already speeding (this should apply to most states). Most of the time when I'm passing people I'm on a highway with a speed limit between 50 and 65 mph and the people I'm passing are going at or under the speed limit. There are no roads in NY state that I'm aware of with a speed limit above 65 mph. Maybe it's different in NC?

 

[Knightshade]

Have a look here and you can see the difference in HP is about 100 (450 vs 350) at 60 mph (7k rpm).

Have a look at the actual acceleration times and trap speeds in a 1/4 mile run and you'll see how worthless fixed-point dyno numbers are for EVs

Again consider the difference in times to get to 60 is about 0.8-0.9 seconds between the cars.

And the P gets to the end of the 1/4 mile (nearly double that speed) roughly... 0.8-.9 seconds sooner than the AWD.

That extra acceleration is almost entirely front-loaded in the 0-60

(see also the fact the trap speeds are so close- which is usually an excellent proxy for net power)

I can tell you the only time I need acceleration above 70 mph is when I'm trying to pass someone who is already speeding (this should apply to most states). Most of the time when I'm passing people I'm on a highway with a speed limit between 50 and 65 mph and the people I'm passing are going at or under the speed limit. There are no roads in NY state that I'm aware of with a speed limit above 65 mph. Maybe it's different in NC?

Quite a lot of 70 mph highways here.... which means realistically most folks are going 75-85.

But if you review my description of my drive, the only time I need acceleration from 0 is...virtually never, and never in any way where 4 vs 3.2 would matter as I'd be the only car doing it either way.

It comes with the PS4s which are far better than the stock 18s. I test drove both...stock the Performance pack makes a big difference on grip.

In terms of acceleration? Nope. Not even the P is traction limited- in fact the lighter 18s make the car (very slightly) quicker than with those boat-anchor 20" wheels.

Certainly I'd expect the PS4s (in any size) to brake and corner under power better than the MXM4s- but that's tires not car- and easily swapped while retaining the lighter, more durable, 18" wheels.

Even if I'd gone P it would've been a P3D- to avoid the 20s, which are all show and no go.