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Finally 120KW Supercharging!

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Does anyone have a charge log from one of the sets of REST API tools? teslams and the visualization tools would give us excellent data on the shape of the taper. I haven't managed to find an excuse to drive by a supercharger... On the way home today... hmmm... that would be a 50 mile detour...

I logged a road trip in late July back when all superchargers were 90 kW:
1,100 mile road trip to Las Vegas and back with a REST datalogger

I've got another road trip planned in about a month and I'll try to log that one as well to get some 120 kW data.
 
OK, I'm not very patient, I guess. So I detoured via Woodburn on the way home. Arrived with 2 miles rated range left. Yeah, I know....
Ramp up to rated range of about 35 miles, peaking at about 102kW (320V/320A). Way better than anything I've seen before on 4.5.
So my guess is the improvement is even more on the 60 than on the 85. We get about 40% more, the 85 about 33% more.
At about 45 miles rated range, about 10 minutes into the charge the thermal management of the battery kicked in with a loud buzz. Quite impressive...
So far I'm very happy. Let's see how the taper compares vs. 4.5. I'm now at about 40% SOC and charging with 78kW. 75 miles added in about 14 minutes. Nice.
 
OK, I'm not very patient, I guess. So I detoured via Woodburn on the way home. Arrived with 2 miles rated range left. Yeah, I know....
Ramp up to rated range of about 35 miles, peaking at about 102kW (320V/320A). Way better than anything I've seen before on 4.5.
So my guess is the improvement is even more on the 60 than on the 85. We get about 40% more, the 85 about 33% more.
At about 45 miles rated range, about 10 minutes into the charge the thermal management of the battery kicked in with a loud buzz. Quite impressive...
So far I'm very happy. Let's see how the taper compares vs. 4.5. I'm now at about 40% SOC and charging with 78kW. 75 miles added in about 14 minutes. Nice.

A blue 85 drove up a few minutes ago. At almost 40% SOC it peaked at about 116kW (368V/318A)...
In the meantime I got 130 miles added in half an hour. Certainly not what Tesla claims on the web site. But still quite impressive.
 
A blue 85 drove up a few minutes ago. At almost 40% SOC it peaked at about 116kW (368V/318A)...
In the meantime I got 130 miles added in half an hour. Certainly not what Tesla claims on the web site. But still quite impressive.

Your numbers are actually pretty close to what the Tesla web site claims. The graph shows 80% in 40 minutes. For a 60, 80% of 200 miles is 160 miles. You got 130 miles in 30 minutes. If you get 30 more miles in the next 10 minutes, that is the 160 or 80% in 40 minutes, right on.
 
Your numbers are actually pretty close to what the Tesla web site claims. The graph shows 80% in 40 minutes. For a 60, 80% of 200 miles is 160 miles. You got 130 miles in 30 minutes. If you get 30 more miles in the next 10 minutes, that is the 160 or 80% in 40 minutes, right on.
Sorry. I don't know why, but I get into EXACTLY this argument rather frequently. Here is what the Tesla website says. It says many other things, too, but this is most likely the FIRST thing that anyone interested in supercharging will find. And no, I'm getting no where near that. And that's my point.
And no, nowhere does it point out that this is "with an 85kWh battery, from completely empty, under ideal conditions". It simply says "Charge in minutes, for free" and then 30 minute charge, 200 miles of range.
Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 6.09.41 PM.png
 
OK, I'm not very patient, I guess. So I detoured via Woodburn on the way home. Arrived with 2 miles rated range left. Yeah, I know....
Ramp up to rated range of about 35 miles, peaking at about 102kW (320V/320A). Way better than anything I've seen before on 4.5.
So my guess is the improvement is even more on the 60 than on the 85. We get about 40% more, the 85 about 33% more.
At about 45 miles rated range, about 10 minutes into the charge the thermal management of the battery kicked in with a loud buzz. Quite impressive...
So far I'm very happy. Let's see how the taper compares vs. 4.5. I'm now at about 40% SOC and charging with 78kW. 75 miles added in about 14 minutes. Nice.
I take it back. Both parts of it.
  • It's about 33% improvement of peak power for either battery - I got close to 70kW on 4.5; I misremembered that number.
  • But more importantly, the real improvement is nowhere near that:
Here are two reasonably comparable graphs - top one is a supercharge in Centralia on 4.5 a couple of months ago, up to 81%SOC, the second one is from today on 4.8 in Woodburn, for comparison purposes I also unplugged at 81%.
The one thing that is different is the starting SOC was 33% in Centralia and 8% today in Woodburn.
  • At 35% SOC: 68kW vs. 87kW
  • At 50% SOC: 67kW vs. 68kW
  • At 65% SOC: 48kW vs. 49kW
  • At 80% SOC: 33kW vs. 36kW
  • Total time from 35% to 80%: 34min vs. 31min
So with all the measurement uncertainty I'd say it's basically identical once you hit 50%, It may be up to a third faster before then, but on a reasonably typical 35->80% charge you only gain about 10% of time.
Actually, I have the data from a different Centralia visit (funnily the same day as the upper chart - just on the way back home) where I arrived with 20% SOC. On that charge power at 35% was identical to the number above (68kW) and it took 7 min from 20% to 35%.
So if I combine the data from the two visits to Centralia (that doesn't seem completely invalid), I get:
  • Total time from 20% to 80%: 41min vs. 37 min
So for 20%->80% still only about a 10% or 4 minute improvement :crying:

Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 6.21.04 PM.png

Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 6.16.43 PM.png
 
And no, nowhere does it point out that this is "with an 85kWh battery, from completely empty, under ideal conditions". It simply says "Charge in minutes, for free" and then 30 minute charge, 200 miles of range.

Uhh... Scroll down on the same page:

Rate of charge.png


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So with all the measurement uncertainty I'd say it's basically identical once you hit 50%.

Agreed. I found the same thing (with less scientific data points).

Based on this, I don't think they enabled the reduced tapering graph yet - only the 120kW Supercharging.

But once you hit 50% it makes almost no difference for a single car. (It should still help with dual cars though to more quickly get to the state where the charge is shared).
 
Uhh... Scroll down on the same page:
Let me ask you a question. Which part of this sentence did you not understand?
Here is what the Tesla website says. It says many other things, too, but this is most likely the FIRST thing that anyone interested in supercharging will find.
The way the graph I posted is presented, top of the page, entirely unqualified, no little asterix, no further explanation, plain and simple. 30 minutes. 200 miles.
Yes, they have the green percentage page, about two page scrolls further down, and the people who actually are looking for details and are willing to do the math (because down there it's 40 and 75 minutes, no more 30 minutes, and it's percentage with no correlation to miles) can figure it out.

But I bet you a 100 dollars. You show this page to a dozen regular people who are curious about this supercharging thing, most of them will come out of reading this thinking "cool, I can get 200 mile range in 30 minutes". And you can't. Not on an S60, and not on an 85, either, given the aggressive taper.

Why are so many people here absolutely allergic to any type of any statement that isn't RA RA TESLA IS AWESOME. Bu-Yeah!

What is on their page is GROSSLY MISLEADING and FACTUALLY WRONG.

I love the car. I'd buy it again in a heart beat (and given what I've learned about the supercharging, I'd buy an 85 - actually, I think if they more clearly stated this, they'd sell MORE 85s...). I have helped sell four 85s to others so far. That does not make me blind to the fact that Tesla is playing fast and loose with numbers. This is just one of the many examples. Look at the "cost of ownership" calculator. Look at Elon's latest card trick with the ratios of car fires. There is no need for that crap, the car is phenomenal and has no competition in the market. That's why this makes me angry. As an owner and a shareholder.

Sorry I'm taking it out on you, deonb. Seriously. Sorry. Reading your post again I'm almost certain you really just thought I missed the second graph.

But some times this is getting really tiresome in this forum. Admittedly, the Teslamotors.com forum is even worse, but that doesn't make this type of willful ignorance here any better.
Agreed. I found the same thing (with less scientific data points).
Hey, I write these visualization tools, I might as well use them to make my point :)
Based on this, I don't think they enabled the reduced tapering graph yet - only the 120kW Supercharging.

But once you hit 50% it makes almost no difference for a single car. (It should still help with dual cars though to more quickly get to the state where the charge is shared).
Cool, so here we 100% agree. This will make a nice difference when you are sharing a charger. But I had honestly hoped that my 20%->80% time would drop more.
 
West Coast > East Coast :tongue:
I'm confused by this reply. Last I checked, WA is on the west coast.

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I have a 60 (duh) where the old supercharging was nice, but really lame compared to the 85. And I of course have extensive data of my supercharging with my 60 on 4.5. So I'm really curious about people who have "before and after" data. And I hope to add my own data soon.
If only there was a thread about supercharging on 60 kWh vehicles...
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20697-Supercharging-on-60kWh

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Sorry. I don't know why, but I get into EXACTLY this argument rather frequently. Here is what the Tesla website says. It says many other things, too, but this is most likely the FIRST thing that anyone interested in supercharging will find. And no, I'm getting no where near that. And that's my point.
And no, nowhere does it point out that this is "with an 85kWh battery, from completely empty, under ideal conditions". It simply says "Charge in minutes, for free" and then 30 minute charge, 200 miles of range.
In "yet another" thread that branched into the joint discussion of "supercharging" and "60 kWh" this was discussed previously. I replied with (among some other words) a request that the issue be raised about the "presentation" of the webpage on the teslamotors.com site and that recommendation still stands.

I tried finding the post but I don't have useful "search for posts by me containing the words __ and __ and __" apparently available. Bing fails, Google fails, TMC search fails. So I give up. TEG will find it someday and include a cute picture of a Roadster in a tutu or something, but I've grown bored already of trying to find the post.

Hope this helps.
 
In "yet another" thread that branched into the joint discussion of "supercharging" and "60 kWh" this was discussed previously. I replied with (among some other words) a request that the issue be raised about the "presentation" of the webpage on the teslamotors.com site and that recommendation still stands.
I did. No response.
Hope this helps.
Your posts always do :)
 
A blue 85 drove up a few minutes ago. At almost 40% SOC it peaked at about 116kW (368V/318A)...
In the meantime I got 130 miles added in half an hour. Certainly not what Tesla claims on the web site. But still quite impressive.

Wait a minute. I just drove an Oly>SFO>Oly this weekend. I hit every supercharger on the I5 and the best I got was 89.7kW. And this was me having the car on "fumes". When did the Oregon superchargers get updated to 120? I'm on v5.8 so that can't be the issue.
 
Wait a minute. I just drove an Oly>SFO>Oly this weekend. I hit every supercharger on the I5 and the best I got was 89.7kW. And this was me having the car on "fumes". When did the Oregon superchargers get updated to 120? I'm on v5.8 so that can't be the issue.

I honestly don't know. But with my S60 getting >100kW and the gentleman with the 85 getting about 117kW Woodburn clearly has been updated. I thought Springfield and Grants Pass were 120kW from the get go...
So I wonder why you topped out at 90kW.
 
No response or no useful response? If you got a useless/form-letter response, bummer. If you got no response at all, send the email again. If the 2nd email gets no response for over two weeks, then send it again and Cc Jerome.
No response. Nothing. Not even an automated reply.
I'll resend.
I sent an email to Jerome on a different topic three weeks ago and had a response in 24h. He's quite impressive.