Finally going solar. I have a question about Enphase microinverters and Powerwall compatibility

[jrmnet]

I pulled the trigger on solar, and barely got into CA NEM 2.0.

The proposal I was given consists of the following:

• Panels: Q.PEAK DUO BLK ML-G10+ 405 (17x)
• MicroInverters: IQ8M-72-2-US [240V] (17x)

From looking in the Apple app store, there is an app called "Enphase Enlighten". Is that the app that is used to monitor the panels and inverters?

I decided not to go with Powerwalls at this time, but may do so in the future. I was told that Enphase microinverters (and Tesla microinverters) are compatible with Tesla Powerwalls. Is that correct?

When I do decide to get Powerwalls, do I then need the Enphase and the Tesla app to monitor the system, or would I be able to everything from the Tesla app?

 

[holeydonut]

I pulled the trigger on solar, and barely got into CA NEM 2.0.

The proposal I was given consists of the following:

• Panels: Q.PEAK DUO BLK ML-G10+ 405 (17x)
• MicroInverters: IQ8M-72-2-US [240V] (17x)

From looking in the Apple app store, there is an app called "Enphase Enlighten". Is that the app that is used to monitor the panels and inverters?

I decided not to go with Powerwalls at this time, but may do so in the future. I was told that Enphase microinverters (and Tesla microinverters) are compatible with Tesla Powerwalls. Is that correct?

When I do decide to get Powerwalls, do I then need the Enphase and the Tesla app to monitor the system, or would I be able to everything from the Tesla app?

Yes, there are two Enphase apps.
1) Toolkit to actually provision/configure the system
2) Enlighten to see cool charts and graphs and stuff

Are you installing these yourself? Your installer should be able to set up this for you.

I have Enphase micros (IQ7) coupled to the Powerwalls. The Tesla system uses a current transducer (CT) to measure the combined AC generation of the Enphase microinverters. This allows the Tesla system to control the battery charging and also measure site solar generation.

The only caveat I've noticed is that the Tesla system reports more solar generation than the Enphase system. Not sure if it's a configuration issue with the CTs, but I don't really trust Tesla's reported generation since it doesn't jive with what ends up going past the PG&E meter.

I usually use Enphase to observe the kWh produced by the rooftop array.

 

[jrmnet]

Yes, there are two Enphase apps.
1) Toolkit to actually provision/configure the system
2) Enlighten to see cool charts and graphs and stuff

Are you installing these yourself? Your installer should be able to set up this for you.

I have Enphase micros (IQ7) coupled to the Powerwalls. The Tesla system uses a current transducer (CT) to measure the combined AC generation of the Enphase microinverters. This allows the Tesla system to control the battery charging and also measure site solar generation.

The only caveat I've noticed is that the Tesla system reports more solar generation than the Enphase system. Not sure if it's a configuration issue with the CTs, but I don't really trust Tesla's reported generation since it doesn't jive with what ends up going past the PG&E meter.

I usually use Enphase to observe the kWh produced by the rooftop array.

Thanks for the insight.

I am working with an installer to get the system in along with my HPWC.

It will probably be a month or so before they get to the permit step, I figured I would just ask here about the app in the meantime.
Originally I was set on getting Powerwalls, but after seeing the price differential I decided to hold off for now.

I hope that eventually Tesla supports V2H. I'd like to be able to use the Tesla car battery power the house (instead of needing Powerwalls) for the 3 or 4 days where power goes out for part of the day.

 

[holeydonut]

Thanks for the insight.

I am working with an installer to get the system in along with my HPWC.

It will probably be a month or so before they get to the permit step, I figured I would just ask here about the app in the meantime.
Originally I was set on getting Powerwalls, but after seeing the price differential I decided to hold off for now.

I hope that eventually Tesla supports V2H. I'd like to be able to use the Tesla car battery power the house (instead of needing Powerwalls) for the 3 or 4 days where power goes out for part of the day.

TBH, if you want V2H or V2G you should just keep your whole system Enphase. Their new IQ8 ecosystem includes V2H already. Enphase acquired Clipper Creek a while back to get this competency and my understanding is that all the features described here are available right now.

https://enphase.com/download/bidirectional-ev-charger-white-paper

They even allow participation in a demand response program so this all works in parallel to the Grid

The only feature that isn't available at this time (and I figure will never be available period) is to somehow use your EV to recharge your on-prem Enphase Encharge batteries.

Edit: sorry need to add... I think the below is not currently available in California. At least not in the exact way it's drawn up. The reason is that the EV can be charged by the grid, so the system cannot be use to power the home if the grid were still connected. But I think if the grid/gateway is opened and the system goes into stand-alone mode, the EV can be used to power home loads even if the EV were grid-charged.

IMO, I wish @h2ofun would sell his Powerwall system and go with Enphase so we can see this in action hehe.

 

[jjrandorin]

(and Tesla microinverters)

There are no Tesla microinverters

I hope that eventually Tesla supports V2H.

Its my belief that the chances of that happening for people who dont have powerwalls already (and all the permitting and such that entails ) is virtually zero. In other words, tesla has not had any interest in that in the past, and has ZERO business reason to do so now for people who dont already have powerwalls.

Dont plan on that happening. You will be looking at some other brand EV to get that, if you dont have powerwalls, and you will also be looking at an install + equipment that is not just a regular EVSE.

 

[jrmnet]

TBH, if you want V2H or V2G you should just keep your whole system Enphase. Their new IQ8 ecosystem includes V2H already. Enphase acquired Clipper Creek a while back to get this competency and my understanding is that all the features described here are available right now.

https://enphase.com/download/bidirectional-ev-charger-white-paper

They even allow participation in a demand response program so this all works in parallel to the Grid

The only feature that isn't available at this time (and I figure will never be available period) is to somehow use your EV to recharge your on-prem Enphase Encharge batteries.

Edit: sorry need to add... I think the below is not currently available in California. At least not in the exact way it's drawn up. The reason is that the EV can be charged by the grid, so the system cannot be use to power the home if the grid were still connected. But I think if the grid/gateway is opened and the system goes into stand-alone mode, the EV can be used to power home loads even if the EV were grid-charged.

View attachment 929679

IMO, I wish @h2ofun would sell his Powerwall system and go with Enphase so we can see this in action hehe.

It is my understanding that the car manufacturer still needs to support bi-directional charging as well. Therefore if your car is a Tesla, you still need to wait for this to work, correct (even if you had a Clipper charger)?

 

[holeydonut]

It is my understanding that the car manufacturer still needs to support bi-directional charging as well. Therefore if your car is a Tesla, you still need to wait for this to work, correct (even if you had a Clipper charger)?

Eeehhhh that may be the wrinkle that I can't discuss since this is a Tesla forum heh. but yeah, the Enphase fellow said:

... works with any EV that is bidirectional, including Nissan, Ford and GM (upcoming vehicles). But not Tesla.

I think @sunwarriors has a full Enphase system too. I don't know if he got the bidirectional EVSE.

 

[BGbreeder]

Enlighten is the right app. We have Enphase plus Powerwalls. No issues. The reported power from the Tesla app initially didn't match either the meter or the Enphase, but several replacement CTs later, it is within 1%. Good enough for me. Tesla's app "sees" the Enphase output via CTs on the solar output(s). It all works.

I think that a robust V2H/V2G is far enough in the future, that I would just kick that a down the road until it is a working reality, with rules and regulations to match.

All the best,

BG

 

[sunwarriors]

Biggest thing with Enphase is they have generator support live now and V2X is 2024. The idea from what I've seen is you will still need to buy their own special EVSE charger which can charge the EV or pull power from the EV. There is a pretty video/demo on their website. It's still early days for that, but it's on their roadmap and I assume it will happen, just not today. Enphase has been known to be late (like every other company), but their IQ8 has been in the batteries for years before being available for solar panels.

Enphase is LFP battery chemistry if you care. Tesla PW3 might move to LFP from leaks. I don't see why they don't due to better cost/safer (higher operating temps, no need for any active cooling, more quiet, etc etc).

I think if you own Teslas or multiple Tesla EVs, staying in the Tesla family has it's benefits as well.

Enphase demonstrates bidirectional EV charger

Enphase's new bidirectional EV charger enables vehicle-to-home and vehicle-to-grid applications, and can be integrated with its home energy systems.

www.pv-magazine.com

Enphase Bidirectional EV Charger | Enphase

enphase.com

If this is ever released, I may look into buying that piece if the $$ isn't too crazy.

With this stupid fixed monthly fee from the utilities, if we get a massive EV and a generator, maybe I can go off grid and cut electric power at least from the utility. Don't really want/plan to buy more ESS though.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

There are two Enlighten apps, one has orange icon as is for homeowner and provides basic monitoring ability and the other is gray icon and is enlighten manager. You get free access to enlighten manager if you self install or are an installer, but it gives detail level monitoring per panel (graphs of panel current, voltage and power). My installer didn’t commission the system upon leaving, so I commissioned my system myself as self installed and got access to enlighten manager. I believe you can pay 200 bucks to get access to enlighten manager. Enlighten manager also gives you access to the toolkit.
But yes powerwall will work with virtually any inverter. Powerwall will uses frequency to curtail inverter output in off grid mode, pw2+ only system my use canbus to curtail. Enphase has a few soft curtail profiles to use, but tesla needs to lower the frequency on their system.
I have 63x IQ7+ inverters and powerwall.
IQ8 inverters can do grid forming, but that only works with enphases system.

 

[skepticcyclist]

I have a similar setup. You can monitor with both APPs or just the Tesla APP. Only the Tesla APP will allow you to control the battery. And only the Enphase APP will allow you to shut off solar production. If you go with an Enphase or LG battery then you will control everything with the Enphase APP

If you do get a Powerwall you will control all your time of use settings and battery settings exclusively through the Tesla APP

Here’s my solar production for APPs today. BTW Very low production today due to a marine layer that did not burn off at all today.

 

[skepticcyclist]

The only caveat I've noticed is that the Tesla system reports more solar generation than the Enphase system.

I have the opposite results. My enphase APP shows more production than the gateway.

 

[Watts_Up]

I pulled the trigger on solar, and barely got into CA NEM 2.0.

The proposal I was given consists of the following:

• Panels: Q.PEAK DUO BLK ML-G10+ 405 (17x)
• MicroInverters: IQ8M-72-2-US [240V] (17x)

From looking in the Apple app store, there is an app called "Enphase Enlighten". Is that the app that is used to monitor the panels and inverters?

I decided not to go with Powerwalls at this time, but may do so in the future. I was told that Enphase microinverters (and Tesla microinverters) are compatible with Tesla Powerwalls. Is that correct?

When I do decide to get Powerwalls, do I then need the Enphase and the Tesla app to monitor the system, or would I be able to everything from the Tesla app?

Could someone explain to me of the advantage of using MicroInverters versus
a SCC (Solar Charger Controller) with MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) solar system.

From what I can see, you need one MicroInverter for each solar panel, which is quite expensive.
Also the output of a MicroInverter is AC, so you need an AC/DC inverter to charge a battery.

I was thinking that MicroInverters were recommended when there was trees providing shade.
Also MicroInverters are simpler to use for Grid Ready systems without battery.

So in the case of a Solar system, without shade from trees, an using Powerwalls,
would you recommend using MicroInverters versus SCC MPPT ?

 

[sunwarriors]

Could someone explain to me of the advantage of using MicroInverters versus
a SCC (Solar Charger Controller) with MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) solar system.

From what I can see, you need one MicroInverter for each solar panel, which is quite expensive.
Also the output of a MicroInverter is AC, so you need an AC/DC inverter to charge a battery.

I was thinking that MicroInverters were recommended when there was trees providing shade.
Also MicroInverters are simpler to use for Grid Ready systems without battery.

So in the case of a Solar system, without shade from trees, an using Powerwalls,
would you recommend using MicroInverters versus SCC MPPT ?

I keep seeing posts that microinverters are expensive, but is/was it really? When I started my research, I specifically demanded microinverters after getting some quotes with single inverters due to wantng less single points of failure (you can read about the various posts here about 1 main inverter being off line here for months), but the quotes were at most, $2k more I think vs. a large Solar Edge string inverter. For a solar project with batteries (for me) where the cost to play is $40k-$50k, that seems negligible.

Warranty also was longer for micros when I got stuff quoted so unlike commercial projects with thousands of panels, I don't think it's smart to not use micros for small residential projects where most folks have such a small number of panels to begin with.

Outputting to AC is an advantage as well from what I've read (safety) so you aren't bringing higher DC down to the house. The AC/DC conversion lost is also not as big as a factor for me (what DC battery makers harp) since you either have enough sun to charge up batteries to 100 or you don't.

 

[skepticcyclist]

Could someone explain to me of the advantage of using MicroInverters versus
a SCC (Solar Charger Controller) with MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) solar system.

Depends. For some who may be maxed out on what their inverter can handle, is easy to just add existing panels with microinverters without having to upgrade an existing inverter.

Also the output of a MicroInverter is AC, so you need an AC/DC inverter to charge a battery.

Tesla powerwall already has the inverter/rectifier built in. An enphase system has a built in rectifier as well.

I was thinking that MicroInverters were recommended when there was trees providing shade.
Also MicroInverters are simpler to use for Grid Ready systems without battery.

The new IQ8+ provides sunlight backup without the need of a battery. It will provide enough solar to power the critical loads of your house without sending any additional to the grid or to a battery.

 

[Vines]

I pulled the trigger on solar, and barely got into CA NEM 2.0.

The proposal I was given consists of the following:

• Panels: Q.PEAK DUO BLK ML-G10+ 405 (17x)
• MicroInverters: IQ8M-72-2-US [240V] (17x)

From looking in the Apple app store, there is an app called "Enphase Enlighten". Is that the app that is used to monitor the panels and inverters?

I decided not to go with Powerwalls at this time, but may do so in the future. I was told that Enphase microinverters (and Tesla microinverters) are compatible with Tesla Powerwalls. Is that correct?

When I do decide to get Powerwalls, do I then need the Enphase and the Tesla app to monitor the system, or would I be able to everything from the Tesla app?

Personally, I would not pair the IQ8M with that large of a panel. The microinverter is only able to output 325w of power continuously and the panel has a PTC of about 370w. I have used this exact panel on my neighbors roof and used an IQ8A instead for this exact reason. This will output 349w and so is a better match for this size module. Its probably not a significant issue though, just a bit more losses, depending on your azimuth. If you have a non-ideal orientation you may never notice the lack.

I agree with what others said regarding V2X, don't count on it as it is too bleeding edge to really be deployed practically.

Could someone explain to me of the advantage of using MicroInverters versus
a SCC (Solar Charger Controller) with MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) solar system.

From what I can see, you need one MicroInverter for each solar panel, which is quite expensive.
Also the output of a MicroInverter is AC, so you need an AC/DC inverter to charge a battery.

I was thinking that MicroInverters were recommended when there was trees providing shade.
Also MicroInverters are simpler to use for Grid Ready systems without battery.

So in the case of a Solar system, without shade from trees, an using Powerwalls,
would you recommend using MicroInverters versus SCC MPPT ?

Most installations here need module-level rapid shutdown, so this requires mid-circuit interrupters (MCI) placed between the panels anyway if you have a string inverter. With microinverters, you do not need any box on your wall outside, and you do not need any special rapid shutdown hardware to accomplish module-level rapid shut down.

 

[cali8484]

Eeehhhh that may be the wrinkle that I can't discuss since this is a Tesla forum heh. but yeah, the Enphase fellow said:

... works with any EV that is bidirectional, including Nissan, Ford and GM (upcoming vehicles). But not Tesla.

Can your Enphase fellow provide documentation?
Seriously doubt it will work with a Ford available today. The only Ford with bidirectional charging is the F150 Lightning and it does not use standards based CCS protocol and Ford has already said it doesn't work with any third-party bidirectional chargers.

 

[wwu123]

The new IQ8+ provides sunlight backup without the need of a battery. It will provide enough solar to power the critical loads of your house without sending any additional to the grid or to a battery.

It can, but I believe you also need to install Enphase's equivalent of the Tesla Gateway to manage isolation from the grid, which also makes your system ready for batteries in the future. A friend got quoted about $10K to have that gateway installed, on a solar install that itself was only $10-15K total - that's $10K without any batteries, to get sunlight backup. That installer also said it basically doesn't work, and advised against it - my digging around suggested maybe it's because there's no way to manage loads to ensure they stay below the available solar output, so if your loads are too high, the whole thing probably just shuts down....

I'm interested in the concept, as I have older M215 micro's, that they've supposedly made compatible with this - but not for $10K...

 

[skepticcyclist]

It can, but I believe you also need to install Enphase's equivalent of the Tesla Gateway to manage isolation from the grid, which also makes your system ready for batteries in the future. A friend got quoted about $10K to have that gateway installed, on a solar install that itself was only $10-15K total - that's $10K without any batteries, to get sunlight backup. That installer also said it basically doesn't work, and advised against it - my digging around suggested maybe it's because there's no way to manage loads to ensure they stay below the available solar output, so if your loads are too high, the whole thing probably just shuts down....

I'm interested in the concept, as I have older M215 micro's, that they've supposedly made compatible with this - but not for $10K...

You can also add a very small backup battery to avoid most of those issues

 

[Krash]

…I was thinking that MicroInverters were recommended when there was trees providing shade…

Also when shaded by snow. Nice to have the option to leave panels partially covered.