Financial Feasibility

[SwedishAdvocate]

Apologies in advance for continuing on a tangent perhaps slightly off topic. Am hoping though, that enough of you will agree that’s it’s for a good enough cause…

My girlfriend /.../ [drives] an AMG /.../.

I periodically mention the Model S as something she should consider but she isn't biting - yet.

Tried the environmental argument?

For example:

"…] we’ve had already in the New York region 10—nine to 10 inches of sea-level rise over the last 100 years […"

Source (includes transcript):

Cynthia Rosenzweig, senior research scientist at NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, where she heads the Climate Impacts Group.

NOVEMBER 1, 2012

A Crisis Foretold: Studies Warned New York Infrastructure Critically Threatened by Climate Change

And more data points in another post here (#122):

Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6 - Page 13

And here (#39):

Racked with indecision... - Page 4

And also; Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth which granted is six years old by now (...and it was perhaps five years since I saw it) but nonetheless, as I remember it, it for example does a pretty good job of explaining the basic connection between the increasing amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and the rising global average temperature.

 

[jerry33]

$10k for a Prius maintenance/warranty over 8 years???

I have spent $10,030.80 for tires and dealer maintenance (and a couple of accessories) over 143,172 miles and ten years on the 2004 Prius. This is far better than the $20,900 I spent on the VW TDI over five years and 95,000 miles for dealer maintenance alone (no tires included in that). The TDI was the most disappointing car I ever had--never again.

No doubt the Tesla will cost more than the Prius, but it will be a bargain compared to the TDI.

 

[loganss]

It's nice to see that I'm not alone when it comes to generating a cost comparison spreadsheet.

Based on several comparison scenarios I played around with I still don't see why some people can say buying a Tesla wouldn't be a better financial choice to a similar performing car.

 

[Zaxxon]

That's the conclusion I've come to, Logan. The S may not be defensible as an economical choice in a vacuum, but when considering other options at $35k and up, it can be quite competitive.

 

[David_Cary]

I got accused of neglecting some of the maintenance because I am only at 6yr/85k but what I didn't make clear is that I am at $400 and I was giving a total of $1000 so $600 more for 2 yrs/40k miles. And sure it could be a lot more. Even going to $2k - it is still way under $10k and doubles the difference from the $7k total difference initially.

 

[Zaxxon]

I got accused of neglecting some of the maintenance because I am only at 6yr/85k but what I didn't make clear is that I am at $400 and I was giving a total of $1000 so $600 more for 2 yrs/40k miles. And sure it could be a lot more. Even going to $2k - it is still way under $10k and doubles the difference from the $7k total difference initially.

You're doing better than I am. $40 for an oil change/misc wiper blades/etc every 5k miles plus $20 for a tire rotation every 10k = $50/5k, $100/10k, $1000 for my 100k. Toss in cabin/engine air filters, radiator flush, etc and my Prius is at maybe $1300 for 100k in a perfect scenario with no unexpected problems. Still way below the $10k that I had in my screencap (which was wrong--Edmunds has it at $8k/125k and I've since adjusted my comparison sheet down to $6k/125k which will be high in my case even so), but I'm not sure how you're at $400/85k unless you're doing your own work or skipping some recommended maintenance.

 

[logan]

My girlfriend is pretty easy on the gas and steering wheel (turns) - doesn't make sense to have an AMG when you drive like that but it was her choice - I'm not going there (again).

I periodically mention the Model S as something she should consider but she isn't biting - yet.

Ah, I gotcha. I always say that if you got the power it should be put to good (and fun) use!

 

[riceuguy]

Is It Cheaper? Probably Not...But Should You Care?

Look, we can argue till the cows come home about the costs versus the Prius, the environmental aspects, and much more. But the bottom line is this: If I went to the Toyota dealer to look at a Prius, and the salemsan pulled me aside and said "hey, for $20k more in TCO, some of it spread over 5 years at 1.49% interest, you can drive a much bigger, much more fun, all-electric car with really cool technology," it would take me about two seconds to say "yes."

Earlier I suggested including extended warranties in the costs not because I've ever bought one, but because I fully plan to buy one for the Tesla since it's completely new technology in a new model for a new company and between that and the maintenance program the only cost you could potentially have is tires. For a fair comparison then, you'd want to factor in that cost for the Prius. But again, who really cares...it's a Tesla versus a Prius. Watch the movie "Horrible Bosses" (or just watch the scene here: Horrible Bosses-Police Questioning(drag racing) - YouTube). Nothing against Prius, as it's a great car that started an entire movement, but it's just a different kind of driving experience!

 

[derekt75]

Other factors to consider/adjust for:
1. Tires - my friend's AMG gets 20-25K on a set of rear tires and cost $700 a pair. This compares to $800 for a full set of 4 tires on my Toyota truck and they last 80K. I suspect the Model S will be similar to the AMG.
...

I absolutely agree that tires need to go into the equation. I've got the 21" wheels, so I'm budgeting $2000 per 15k miles in tires. The 19" tires might be more like $1500 per 20k miles? Either way, it's going to cost a lot more than you'd pay on a Corolla or Prius ($300 every 50k miles?).

 

[dsm363]

I absolutely agree that tires need to go into the equation. I've got the 21" wheels, so I'm budgeting $2000 per 15k miles in tires. The 19" tires might be more like $1500 per 20k miles? Either way, it's going to cost a lot more than you'd pay on a Corolla or Prius ($300 every 50k miles?).

Assuming the 21" tires last 15,000 miles which I think they should then tirerack.com has them for $1,152.00 but you'd have to add shipping and installation so maybe closer to $1,400 (total with ground shipping was almost $1,220) but you're right, definitely more than a Prius.

They have the Goodyear Eagle RS-A2 19" tires for Tesla at $580 for 4 tires. Looks like the 19" tires should last a minumum of 20,000 miles. One review there said

Initial Review, 19,500 Miles on Tires
June 13, 2011
Performance of these tires was average. I pretty aggressively, but even so I was shocked when my local Infiniti dealer told me my front tires were at the wear-bars at 19,500 miles. I saw (below) where someone claimed to have gotten 61,000 miles out of the set. I was approximately 1/3 of that. I replaced the Goodyears with a set of Kumhos at about $250 less. Even the Goodyear dealer where I had the the tires installed said this particular Goodyear tire does not have a mileage warranty for a reason. I was very disappointed that they only lasted 20,000 miles. I am hopeful that the Kumhos will do better.

 

[Zaxxon]

Look, we can argue till the cows come home about the costs versus the Prius, the environmental aspects, and much more. But the bottom line is this: If I went to the Toyota dealer to look at a Prius, and the salemsan pulled me aside and said "hey, for $20k more in TCO, some of it spread over 5 years at 1.49% interest, you can drive a much bigger, much more fun, all-electric car with really cool technology," it would take me about two seconds to say "yes."

True--in my case at least, I wasn't expecting / looking for the Tesla to prove less expensive than the Prius. I'm just looking to quantify the cost differential so that I can make an informed purchase decision (*cough* sales pitch to my spouse). 'Honey, over 8 years this shiny S is $10k (or whatever the # may be) more than a Prius' is much more effective than 'Honey, can I spend $75k on a Tesla instead of $35k on a Prius?'

Earlier I suggested including extended warranties in the costs not because I've ever bought one, but because I fully plan to buy one for the Tesla since it's completely new technology in a new model for a new company and between that and the maintenance program the only cost you could potentially have is tires. For a fair comparison then, you'd want to factor in that cost for the Prius. But again, who really cares...it's a Tesla versus a Prius. Watch the movie "Horrible Bosses" (or just watch the scene here: Horrible Bosses-Police Questioning(drag racing) - YouTube). Nothing against Prius, as it's a great car that started an entire movement, but it's just a different kind of driving experience!

I've been avoiding including extended warranties for the other cars because I feel that I need one with the Tesla (because it's not 'proven' to the same degree as a Toyota or Honda, for example, and because the downside of a major break can be much more expensive than on other cars). While I fully believe that the Tesla can/will prove as reliable as promised, I'm not willing/able to back that belief up with my wallet. So I need the warranty.

Re: Derek's tires comment. Sheesh--are the 19"ers really that expensive? I've never owned a car with > 17" wheels, and assumed that the 19" all-weather tires would be more expensive than my Camry's tires, but incrementally so and not 16 times as expensive ($1500/15k vs $300/50k). Guess I need to do some research on that.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like Tire Rack has the 19"s for $580/set of 4. I'm not up on the terminology for expected life--what's the expected mileage of these?

 

[riceuguy]

True--in my case at least, I wasn't expecting / looking for the Tesla to prove less expensive than the Prius. I'm just looking to quantify the cost differential so that I can make an informed purchase decision (*cough* sales pitch to my spouse). 'Honey, over 8 years this shiny S is $10k (or whatever the # may be) more than a Prius' is much more effective than 'Honey, can I spend $75k on a Tesla instead of $35k on a Prius?'

I never expected my wife to OK the Tesla, but when she saw the ear to ear grin from the time I got in to the time we got out for the test drive, she's been pushing me to get it. She says she's never seen me that happy--not even our wedding day, which then makes her sad and a bit upset. But I think she figures it's better than some alternative bad decisions people make for their mid-life crises.

 

[dsm363]

I never expected my wife to OK the Tesla, but when she saw the ear to ear grin from the time I got in to the time we got out for the test drive, she's been pushing me to get it. She says she's never seen me that happy--not even our wedding day, which then makes her sad and a bit upset. But I think she figures it's better than some alternative bad decisions people make for their mid-life crises.

If you got the approval and the finances work, go for it. There will be a lot of cars in the Austin region so get togethers will be planned too.

 

[derekt75]

...
Re: Derek's tires comment. Sheesh--are the 19"ers really that expensive? I've never owned a car with > 17" wheels, and assumed that the 19" all-weather tires would be more expensive than my Camry's tires, but incrementally so and not 16 times as expensive ($1500/15k vs $300/50k). Guess I need to do some research on that.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like Tire Rack has the 19"s for $580/set of 4. I'm not up on the terminology for expected life--what's the expected mileage of these?

Ironically, the more you pay for tires, generally the faster they wear out.
I tend to look only at the ultra high performance or max performance types of tires, but that's clearly a poor assumption for many of the 19" folks.
The high performance all seasons are likely to last longer than my expectations for max performance tires. The lack of a treadlife warranty is generally an indicator of 30k or fewer expected miles.

 

[Brian H]

...a lot more than you'd pay on a Corolla or Prius ($300 every 50k miles?).

That's because the Prius specializes in very soft, gentle acceleration. Easy on the tires!

 

[David_Cary]

You're doing better than I am. $40 for an oil change/misc wiper blades/etc every 5k miles plus $20 for a tire rotation every 10k = $50/5k, $100/10k, $1000 for my 100k. Toss in cabin/engine air filters, radiator flush, etc and my Prius is at maybe $1300 for 100k in a perfect scenario with no unexpected problems. Still way below the $10k that I had in my screencap (which was wrong--Edmunds has it at $8k/125k and I've since adjusted my comparison sheet down to $6k/125k which will be high in my case even so), but I'm not sure how you're at $400/85k unless you're doing your own work or skipping some recommended maintenance.

Good point. I've neglected some things. The cabin air filter is such a ripoff that I just cut a cheaper one and do it myself. All oil changes are done at the shop. I don't rotate tires - but does anyone expect that the Tesla maintenance will include tire rotation so I figured that doesn't count - it is part of the tire expense.

I've never done a radiator flush - I'm not sure in my climate that is really an issue with a new car. Honda does not have a scheduled requirement.

I have done a CVT oil change and I did do that myself - I forgot about that one. That is the extent of the 60k extra. It would be about $150 to have it done.

This discussion got me to look at my schedule and I have never changed the brake fluid and it is recommended at 3 years ... Oops. I'll get on that one.

We all know that recommended maintenance is mostly a manufacturer gift to the dealers. A good proportion of it is completely unnecessary. Oil changes every 5k in a modern car - crazy. And honestly wasteful and environmentally damaging.

 

[jerry33]

Good point. does anyone expect that the Tesla maintenance will include tire rotation so I figured that doesn't count - it is part of the tire expense.

I expect them to do it. "Everything but tires" should mean everything but purchasing the tires.