Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Financing rates

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Increase your credit score? Why ... do you need a credit score if you don't finance anything?

While I feel that Financing is a personal decision and each person makes their choice as to what works for them. What works for one person may, or may not, work for another. But ultimately it's their decision and they'll live with the benefits (or consequences) of such. No one should be criticized for making a decision which differs from one that someone else may make - ultimately it's THEIR decision.

Regarding credit score - Credit scores are used for much more than financing things. For example, your credit score also plays a factor in determining your insurance rates.

But since this thread is titled "Financing Rates" it might be helpful if we keep it on topic for those who are actually looking for Financing Rates...
 
Regarding credit score - Credit scores are used for much more than financing things. For example, your credit score also plays a factor in determining your insurance rates.
Not everywhere. California made that illegal because they didn’t want some people paying lower rates, so you can’t get lower rates by having good credit.
 
Sure, if you otherwise are incompetent at wealth management.

If you pay a financial advisor who advises you to finance a depreciating asset to impress your friends he or she should be fired immediately. The stuff some "experts" pass of as financial advice is incredible. I guess you have to say something bold and unique to attract the people willing to part with their money. The tried and true method of "don't spend more than you make" just doesn't have the same panache to it these days when everyone is looking for some get rich fast scheme.
 
If you pay a financial advisor who advises you to finance a depreciating asset to impress your friends he or she should be fired immediately. The stuff some "experts" pass of as financial advice is incredible. I guess you have to say something bold and unique to attract the people willing to part with their money. The tried and true method of "don't spend more than you make" just doesn't have the same panache to it these days when everyone is looking for some get rich fast scheme.

The problem with simple “tried and true” tropes and rigid rules that include a capital NEVER is that they’re overly simplistic and don’t allow the application of common sense or rational reasoning specific to a situation.

It also perpetuates the myth we foist on poor people that most wealthy people got that way by simply saving all their money like responsible drones and only buying what they can afford.

Average S&P 500 annual return over any rolling 5 year period since 1997 is 6.1%.

Meanwhile an auto loan for 5 years right now will cost me 1.86%.

Sure, netting 4% a year on my $50k or $100k auto outlay isn’t gonna fundamentally change my net worth, but thinking like that, over time, certainly will.
 
The problem with simple “tried and true” tropes and rigid rules that include a capital NEVER is that they’re overly simplistic and don’t allow the application of common sense or rational reasoning specific to a situation.

It also perpetuates the myth we foist on poor people that most wealthy people got that way by simply saving all their money like responsible drones and only buying what they can afford.

Average S&P 500 annual return over any rolling 5 year period since 1997 is 6.1%.

Meanwhile an auto loan for 5 years right now will cost me 1.86%.

Sure, netting 4% a year on my $50k or $100k auto outlay isn’t gonna fundamentally change my net worth, but thinking like that, over time, certainly will.

Yeah, it'll change your net worth alright when the economy collapses next year & you get laid off then can't pay that loan back and lose everything including your health as you stress yourself into an early grave. Instead, you could have just bought an older car for cash which also would depreciate less. You don't take depreciation rate difference between a new car and a 5-year-old car in your 4% "net" number either. You're essentially comparing apples to aardvarks. There are FAR too many factors for that 4% "gain" to be even remotely worth it when you're so heavily leveraged.

Anyone who understands finances doesn't get loans to be buy depreciating assets. It's losing money on both ends and magnifying this total amount on a larger dollar figure than you could afford w/o it.

Investing is FAR less risky if you have no debt and especially no depreciating value debt. The best thing you can do is pay off all debt (a mortgage is alright in some context but should just be treated as a lower priority debt that needs to be paid off ASAP as well w/o getting into the weeds on when it's acceptable) and have zero monthly responsibility other than basic utilities and such. Then your investments take on a whole new meaning.

Like it or not, not buying crap you can't afford and saving what money you have to put towards your debts until you're paid off entirely and then dumping heavily into retirement and other investments is the ideal way to achieve real financial freedom. The rest is just whiz-bang window dressing that means nothing other than a few outliers that get lucky and then try to sell you on it being the right way. Play your cards right and you don't have to make a ton of money to achieve financial freedom. Too many people expose themselves to risk trying to gamble on something they don't have to while the rest just sheepishly leverage away their future on shiny objects and trying to impress people.

It's amazing to me that debt has become so normal that people who challenge the very idea are attacked savagely. If everyone didn't think they "deserved" that $100k car they can't afford in order to show up the Smith's next door we'd have a LOT more financially solvent families today. Instead, just a lot of people driving $100k cars who constantly complain about their finances, being broke and how the "system" is stacked against them.

Then again, our economy would implode overnight if it wasn't for uneducated people using financing "deals" to buy products they can't afford and get into debt so lending institutions can also remain profitable. I should just keep quiet and let the foolish continue parting with their money but I was there when I was younger too. Nobody taught me anything about money (we were quite poor so I can see why it wasn't much of a topic) and I wasted a LOT of my early years spending foolishly on crap I didn't need thinking I was enjoying the American dream.

So yeah, it's overly simplistic what I say but that's just because I have about 5-seconds to capture someone's attention and at least plant the seed that maybe there's better ways to consider financial topics than what they believe to be normal. If you get deep into the details it's overwhelming why you would want to heed this advice. Soon as these government handouts expire and the unemployed and underemployed who are living paycheck to paycheck can't make their monthly obligations and start having their cars and homes taken away they'll wish they hadn't been so foolish on the front end.

Nobody who is debt-free wishes they had got into more debt to "make" more money as the world around them is crumbling. Yet the streets are littered with people who thought your method of "netting" out a couple of percent here and there was worthy of leveraging their financial future over. It was one thing to give this advice years ago when it seemed like things would never get bad again even though (recent) history has proven otherwise. It's quite another when the world is on the edge of a cliff financially and telling people to keep leveraging for that couple of percent net that ends up being a loss if you fully compare apples to apples anyway. It's not sound financial advice.

But hey, this thread was all about saving a couple of tenths on that loan cost so let's get back on truck. lol
 
Like it or not, not buying crap you can't afford and saving what money you have to put towards your debts until you're paid off entirely and then dumping heavily into retirement and other investments is the ideal way to achieve real financial freedom.

Since your whole post was basically saying a version of this sentence over and over, I’ll choose this one as representative and respond to it rather than go point by point.

I’ll start by acknowledging that buying a brand new car is nearly always a poor financial decision. But that doesn’t change the fact that many of us buy them, and we don’t all drive 2004 Toyota Camrys in the name of uncompromising financial freedom. This argument is uninteresting to me so let’s put it aside.

Let’s take the situation I’m actually talking about. I’ve decided to buy a car for $50,000. The decision is made. The price doesn’t actually matter, nor does whether it’s new or used, nor does how much it depreciates over my ownership.

I can afford the car. In fact, I can even pay cash for it if I want. I have stable employment and ample savings. I can A) choose to finance the car through EECU (see my post on the last page, check me out keeping this on topic ;) )for less than 2% interest for five years and put the $50k into my retirement savings, where it is practically guaranteed to earn more than 2% per year for the next five years, or B) I can pay cash.

I’d choose A (well, under most any non-2020 pandemic conditions I would. Right now my answer is likely “none of the above ;) ). The small risk is worth the reward to me, and either way I’m not ending up in financial ruin. You’ve made it clear you’d definitely choose B. Fine by me. But your absolutes and insistence that it is NEVER ok, reasonable, or financially sound to choose A is fundamentalist silliness.

Debt is a tool. There’s no reason to be scared of a tool. Use it correctly and it’s a valuable tool for wealth management. This is what wealthy people actually do.
 
Last edited:
"Never Finance a Depreciating asset"

This holds true if you have low credit score and can't secure a low interest rate.
The majority of cars are NOT an investment. Its a tool. Be it a expensive tool or a cheap one all depends on a persons financial situation. If you drive it for 200k + miles with minimal repairs/maintenance then its a worth while expense along with having fun.
 
"Never Finance a Depreciating asset"

This holds true if you have low credit score and can't secure a low interest rate.

Credit score has zero relevance to my point. Financing a depreciating asset means you're paying money to a lender to buy something that is also losing value. You're burning the candle at both ends for... what? To have something that strangers say "look at that guy, he must be successful" when reality most people are so financially uneducated they'd rather just hate someone because they drive a nice car and assume they had it given to them. It just doesn't make sense and most people aren't in a financial position to do such things and those that are got there because they likely know better. The outliers on either side aren't really relevant to this conversation.

The majority of cars are NOT an investment. Its a tool. Be it a expensive tool or a cheap one all depends on a persons financial situation. If you drive it for 200k + miles with minimal repairs/maintenance then its a worth while expense along with having fun.

Yeah, because lots of people who buy a brand new car keep it for 200k to help spread out that depreciation. Even if that were the case, that car is going to have a VERY low % of it's initial purchase price remaining in terms of value so would you rather have a $100k that's now nearly worthless or a $40k car that's nearly worthless.

The reality is that most buy a new car for a few years. They buy a new car and then lose 50% of whatever that purchase price is which becomes a realized loss when they trade it in or sell it likely to buy their next new car. Let's create a scenario based on loose numbers to help visualize what I'm talking about (not that these loan terms are 72mos even though I state that the term of ownership is 4-5 years but this is the same across all comparisons so it's apples to apples. The amount you'd decrease annual hit spreading it across 200k is nominal plus nobody is really going to do that):

1) New car purchase price $100k financed for an above average (read: decent) rate of 3% over a term of 72mos (I assume that's how long people are financing these things for.. the total cost is even worse though the longer you go).
Total Loan Amount $107,300.00
Sale Tax $7,000.00
Upfront Payment $0.00

Total of 72 Loan Payments
$117,380.26
Total Loan Interest $10,080.26
Total Cost (price, interest, tax, fees) $117,380.26

That's $17,000 in loan costs and sales tax, rounded down. On top of that, the same car will be worth roughly 50% after 4-5 years meaning that the same $100k car is now worth $50k which equals a total loss of $50k plus the $17k in the previous sentence for a total loss of $67k in only 4-5 years. That's somewhere around $15k per year of ownership that you lose due to depreciation and loan costs plus tax. That's a real world figure of what cost of ownership is. Another way to look at it is to take your annual salary after tax (read: take home) and deduct $15k right off top. I don't care what you make and what your obligations... that's noticeable.

Up next....

2) You buy a car for whatever cash you have on you. You have ZERO payment. Each month and you can put any and all excess money side to buy something better later. For most, this will be a beater (read: gas car) that is perfectly serviceable but has zero in the way of creature comforts. It's not spectacular and it won't impress any of your friends or neighbors. Your loan costs will be zero and your loss due to depreciation will also be next to zero and, if you play your cars right, you can probably even make money. This method allows you to keep putting money away (whatever you budgeted for a monthly payment is a great starting place) to buy something better paying cash. Do this long enough and you can basically pay cash for a brand new $100k car if that's what you want. Most likely, during this period, this exercise will help teach you the value and you likely won't want to pay cash for a $100k car even though you can technically afford it based on some of the figures from #1 above. That's actually the goal. This is the most ideal if your ultimate goal is to not worry about money ever again. You'll get there rapidly if this is your focus. This is the option I would recommend for anyone in their 20's who is just setting out on life and wants to make life MUCH easier in the long run by being smart with their finances.

Lastly, a nice blend of the two above which will get you 90% of the experience with something like 25% of the cost required. To me, this is the best option because it maximizes value while taking a limited hit to your ownership experience....

3) Find a nice used car for around $40k or so and then shop for a great interest rate (ideally, cash but for purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the buyer doesn't have $40k cash sitting around) and buy a car that's already taken the bulk of it's depreciation hit from the previous owner. You'll pay less than half as much in tax and the depreciation rate is not only significantly lower but it's based on a starting point of less than half which will amount to far less loss. A similar example is below for purposes of this exercise (not that I even bumped the interest rate up to account for used car loans having slightly higher interest rates):
Total Loan Amount $43,100.00
Sale Tax $2,800.00
Upfront Payment $0.00

Total of 72 Loan Payments
$47,846.37
Total Loan Interest $4,746.37
Total Cost (price, interest, tax, fees) $47,846.37

Your loan costs and sales tax in this scenario is a scant $8k (rounded up) versus $17k (rounded down) from #1 above. That's a real savings of $9k total which is NOT an insignificant sum of money. Your annual cost is more like $2k compared to $15k. Tell me what you can do with an extra $13k every single year towards investments or paying off debt. That's a flat dollar amount and not some hypothetical amount that could actually lose money which is what people are selling with this 2% "net" BS that could actually cost you everything.

If you do #2 above for long enough you'll be able to do #3 w/o even needing a loan. Then, when you do that enough you'll be able to do #1 paying cash if you still insist on owning a new car after a decade or two or learning the value of a dollar which isn't likely because your life goals will extend WELL beyond that of something a stupid as a car.


So, if you insist on buying a Tesla, a good used one makes FAR more financial sense than a brand new one. If you are just going to buy a brand new one because you like impressing everyone who sees it then don't come in here trying to fabricate #'s that make it seem like it's a smart financial decision when it's not and you can't cook the #'s to say it is. Just own that you like losing $15k per year of your after tax income to impress strangers. That's really all you're doing because the minute gain in day to day ownership experience in no way justifies this cost delta.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: LN1_Casey