Finding it hard to remain passionate about Tesla

[Muhammad]

Hey guys

I guess this post will be a half rant, half counseling session.

A little backstory: I purchased my first Tesla back when Tesla only made one car. The "sales" staff made a huge point at the time not to sell cars, but to act more like museum curators, explaining the technology and showing people around which made for the best car purchase experience I had ever been a part of. And while the car had flaws Tesla service would always go out of their way to pick up and drop off your car to you, give you a loaner, and ensure the process was as customer friendly as possible. Elon Musk was a humble visionary at the time, and it was easy to root for the company amidst the immense misinformation and naivety surrounding electric cars.

Fast forward to today and Tesla to me stands for everything antithetical to what I mentioned above. Good luck getting in contact with service. Tesla will screw over customers as much and as often as they can get away with it and I feel people are passionate about the company because they haven't had to experience this themselves. My 2015 car, despite only being supercharged on longer trips has been horribly throttled. FSD has been over promised time and time again. Tesla's recent successes and outrageously loyal fanbase seems to only reinforce the idea that Tesla can keep screwing customers over and keep getting away with it. Their CEO is childish and yet seems to be 100% supported in every dumb thing he says or does.

The only strong positive are the cars. I guess I am secretly waiting for another company to come with an electric car with the range, UI, and charging infrastructure Tesla has at a comparable price. Maybe I'll be waiting a long time but until then I don't see myself upgrading to the latest and greatest Tesla as I had envisioned. I would never believe I would be saying this 3 years ago when I was a strong advocate for the company and willing to wait in line for the model 3 (only to pay a higher price and have horrible quality control issues and UI bugs for a year). At this point, I wish the company would change its culture but I am not holding my breath. Until then, I am no longer passionate about the brand and have more disdain than admiration.

I miss the Tesla of past...

 

[qingshan]

I've only had one since December but I used to stop and look at them at the Brea and Fashion Island Malls - you are quite right, a change.

 

[MX_2017DE]

I think one fine day Tesla will also have an eye on service.
Actually they just want to grow and sell cars - likely to new customers.
Probably 95% (wild estimation) of customers have no issues with their cars or don't care about it.
But they should not forget the remaining 5%.

In a couple of years, Tesla might see revenue in business with existing customers.
I have several ideas what could simply improve business or make owners happy and even create revenue.

Just 2-3 examples
- Why not hand out service of non critical parts to 3rd party companies?
Brake fluid, pads, door handles, wishbone changes, wheel alignment, etc.
This is all the same, no matter what brand you drive.
Teslas own SC would have more time then for critical issues, e.g. around MCU or battery packs.
- Why not offer a (used) battery pack upgrade for older S+X75/85/90 models to get rid of the charging throttle?
Tesla could sell refurbished battery packs and earn $3k - 4k for each upgrade of 10-15 kWh.
Now they simply switch to the same size for free and people have to wait 'endlessly' at the chargers.
- Why not hire service professionals from (ICE) competitors?
Many of them will lay off experienced people due to "corona" or a dying ICE business.

Current "competition" is no alternative for me.
I think we have to be patient with Tesla until they get "the right" service manager.
Until then you hopefully have the right model and a bit of luck to get few damages.

 

[InternetDude]

Well said! I was also an owner from 2015, but after a series of stupid things Tesla has done I decided I just can't support them anymore. I traded my first 2015 Tesla earlier this year on a Lexus. I even bought a second Model S in 2018 but I now dislike being associated with the company so it will have to go too. Not totally sure yet what will replace it, but 100% it won't be another Tesla.

Teslas the cars are a blast to drive but with Tesla the company there are so many compromises... they wear you down over the years...

 

[Big Toys]

I think one fine day Tesla will also have an eye on service.
Actually they just want to grow and sell cars - likely to new customers.
Probably 95% (wild estimation) of customers have no issues with their cars or don't care about it.
But they should not forget the remaining 5%.

In a couple of years, Tesla might see revenue in business with existing customers.
I have several ideas what could simply improve business or make owners happy and even create revenue.

Just 2-3 examples
- Why not hand out service of non critical parts to 3rd party companies?
Brake fluid, pads, door handles, wishbone changes, wheel alignment, etc.
This is all the same, no matter what brand you drive.
Teslas own SC would have more time then for critical issues, e.g. around MCU or battery packs.
- Why not offer a (used) battery pack upgrade for older S+X75/85/90 models to get rid of the charging throttle?
Tesla could sell refurbished battery packs and earn $3k - 4k for each upgrade of 10-15 kWh.
Now they simply switch to the same size for free and people have to wait 'endlessly' at the chargers.
- Why not hire service professionals from (ICE) competitors?
Many of them will lay off experienced people due to "corona" or a dying ICE business.

Current "competition" is no alternative for me.
I think we have to be patient with Tesla until they get "the right" service manager.
Until then you hopefully have the right model and a bit of luck to get few damages.

Tesla recent ranked dead last on some car survey. You can't earn that distinction polling TMC members, so I suspect the problem is more widespread than your estimations.

 

[TMThree]

Remember when Apple was the underdog? You either die young, or you grow up and become the villan.

 

[jimmym1981]

At the now age of 39 and worked in technology for 20 years, I’ve followed Tesla since day 1 even spending every spare penny I had on their stock when I “felt the dream” they were going for.

Now, that dream is still there, making the most amazing electrical car in the world...the downside, the technology and power is amazing, but the rest of the car and “Tesla” is becoming heartbreaking. Money over customer, technology over QA, and so forth.

I really hope they change their tone with service and build because competition is truly on the horizon. This isn’t 2008 anymore, its 2020, and believe it or not, they will slowly dig their grave when the “next best” electric car comes out.

 

[totoro722]

Tesla recent ranked dead last on some car survey. You can't earn that distinction polling TMC members, so I suspect the problem is more widespread than your estimations.

If I recall correctly, that was Consumer Reports who listed them last for initial quality. The interesting part of that was that Tesla came in first in their customer satisfaction survey. One would think those could not go together. Something is keeping people enthusiastic about their Tesla cars despite the well-known problems.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Have you spent any time really checking out the Porsche Taycan? The electrify America network isn't as substantial as the Tesla network, but it's not tiny either. It might just work fine especially for someone used to how things were back in 2015.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

If I recall correctly, that was Consumer Reports who listed them last for initial quality. The interesting part of that was that Tesla came in first in their customer satisfaction survey. One would think those could not go together. Something is keeping people enthusiastic about their Tesla cars despite the well-known problems.

No, it was the JD power survey.

It's often mocked because they include any little problem including people confused about how something works. Obviously with a Tesla a lot of things work differently so its going to take time.

Now I'm not defending Tesla in saying this as I do think their initial quality stinks. It's just that it's not exactly a respected survey.

 

[Evee]

its sad but true.. the company is growing so fast they cant take care of us or everyone like they used to

 

[Uncle Paul]

High expections most always result in disappointment.

The current cars are fantastic.

The cars Tesla sells today are far advanced and even less expensive than what they sold in 2015. They are faster, smoother, quieter, greater range, better computers, improved displays, better seats, faster charging...more advanced in so many ways. Their pricing has come way down. People were paying +$140,000 for their cars 5 years ago, and had to wait over a year to get delivery. Very few service centers were available and coast to coast supercharging was only a dream.

They had no mobile rangers, almost no available collision repair parts and owners sometimes needed to leave their cars in repair shops for months and months awaiting replacement parts when something would need replacement.

Batteries had higher failure rates than now, cooling was not as efficient, traction motors seemed to be failing frequently and lots of complaints about motor and rear transmission noises.

Today they have to process 20X cars through delivery. No longer have the luxury of coddling all these eager buyers. Gotta get the cars built, delivered and on the road at a far faster pace.

5 years ago they had no Gigafactory churning out millions of battery cells. They had no in house Autopilot, no capacity for collision services, no OTA updates etc. Tires were wearing out after relatively short mileage. No air suspensions were available. No tow packages and people were waiting forever to get their desired 3rd row seating configurations delivered.

People need to stop obsessing over the flaws they can see upon close inspection and rejoice in the success Tesla is having in advancing the conversion of so many people away from destructive gassers to the much cleaner and quieter electric transportation.

Not to say that Tesla customers would be better off with great personalized service and unlimited telephone coddling plus perfectly fitted body panels and show quality paint, but only focusing on those items, and ignoring all the greatness that is Tesla is perhaps missing the main point of what they have achieved.

Currently Tesla is the most valuable auto manufacturer on the planet. Perhaps they are doing somethings right after all.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The only strong positive are the cars

Tesla is a company with a lot going for it, but this came at a cost to other things.

If you try to grow any company rapidly you're going to have parts of it that clearly lag behind. I completely agree with you that they screwed over a lot of customers with battery gate.

They also do such a terrible job at customer service that it's becoming pretty popular on TMC to completely roast them for it. I personally like joking about support coming down to a twitter lottery since some serious issues weren't taken care of until someone tweeted Elon. It used to be that people on TMC knew who at Tesla to contact if they had a serious service/support issue, but that simply doesn't exist anymore. There doesn't seem to be anyone at Tesla in charge of anything except Elon.

So what does it have going for it.

It has two plants in the US, one in China, and is going to open one in Germany. That means they're way more global than they used to be. All the improvements made in China, Germany, and other places will reflect in vehicles in the US.

Software - No one has the top to bottom Software stack that Tesla has. They basically own the entire UX experience with them. If they ever got really serious about service/support they could do a tremendous job of it. They simply don't choose to.

Battery technology, and more importantly Battery cost - Pretty soon they'll have the million mile battery

ADAS Hardware - Sure it's not self driving yet, but they own their own assisted driving technology and can change it at will.

Energy Storage/Generation - They're an energy solution provider

A complete lock down on the entire birth to grave of a Tesla vehicles. This comes at a cost to the consumer because they never really own the car as they lack control over of it or the right to repair it.

Supercharger network along with destination charging - No one has anything close to the scale of it, the cost of it, or the ease of use.

As an owner you don't really benefit all that much from all of these, but make no mistake; Tesla has a lot going for it in terms of valuation and potential.

 

[eyedrop]

You’d think they would add more service centers, superchargers, and weather stripping after getting all those piles of investors cash.

But instead we get sold bleeding edge beta software/hardware. There is a laser focus on technology, and that’s the Tesla way.

I personally prefer a more refined and mature car/company.

I’m waiting for EQS or next gen Model S. Right now I’m in a boring thus flawless commuter Chevy Bolt for the time being, and I’m loving not having to think about the car anymore. So simple and less stress.

 

[Muhammad]

A lot of posters are making the argument that Tesla can't "coddle" or devote too many resources to service while they are ever expanding. I understand that, and I have been willing to give the company many passes in the past, but at some point gross negligence is simply that.

Lets leave the poor service and sales out of the equation for a moment though. Tesla doesn't stand to lose money by attempting to quiet criticism by people like Rich Rebuilds (even Fred was chastised for supposed negativity). Communicating issues related to supercharger throttling, upcoming AP features, and quality control are all arguably things Tesla could do a better job at if they tried. Yet they don't.

The thing that scares me is that the problem at Tesla is no longer a temporary one based on extraneous circumstances. Its a fundamental problem with their culture and how they want to run their brand.

I used to be dismissive of the complaints of others, like when P85D owners were mislead on HP. I said then "what's the big deal?" However I now know what the big deal is. Honestly, transparency, and customer service are simply not ideals Tesla even aspires to live up to.

 

[ucmndd]

I miss the Tesla of past...

Me too, but that company was losing a few $billion a quarter.

I’ll begrudgingly accept a profitable and sustainable Tesla if it means they’re around for another many years to help drive innovation in the industry (not to mention service and maintain my car and back the warranty).

Many of us have been through many iterations of growing pains with this company. I agree the current service situation is probably the most dire and needs to be fixed. However, while I miss it, we’re certainly never returning to the day of “museum curators” when they could fawn over every customer, regardless of the cost.

EDIT: fully agree on some of the company culture issues you raise and the general oppositional treatment of customers and tinkerers.

 

[AMPd]

High expections most always result in disappointment.

The current cars are fantastic.

The cars Tesla sells today are far advanced and even less expensive than what they sold in 2015. They are faster, smoother, quieter, greater range, better computers, improved displays, better seats, faster charging...more advanced in so many ways. Their pricing has come way down. People were paying +$140,000 for their cars 5 years ago, and had to wait over a year to get delivery. Very few service centers were available and coast to coast supercharging was only a dream.

They had no mobile rangers, almost no available collision repair parts and owners sometimes needed to leave their cars in repair shops for months and months awaiting replacement parts when something would need replacement.

Batteries had higher failure rates than now, cooling was not as efficient, traction motors seemed to be failing frequently and lots of complaints about motor and rear transmission noises.

Today they have to process 20X cars through delivery. No longer have the luxury of coddling all these eager buyers. Gotta get the cars built, delivered and on the road at a far faster pace.

5 years ago they had no Gigafactory churning out millions of battery cells. They had no in house Autopilot, no capacity for collision services, no OTA updates etc. Tires were wearing out after relatively short mileage. No air suspensions were available. No tow packages and people were waiting forever to get their desired 3rd row seating configurations delivered.

People need to stop obsessing over the flaws they can see upon close inspection and rejoice in the success Tesla is having in advancing the conversion of so many people away from destructive gassers to the much cleaner and quieter electric transportation.

Not to say that Tesla customers would be better off with great personalized service and unlimited telephone coddling plus perfectly fitted body panels and show quality paint, but only focusing on those items, and ignoring all the greatness that is Tesla is perhaps missing the main point of what they have achieved.

Currently Tesla is the most valuable auto manufacturer on the planet. Perhaps they are doing somethings right after all.

Customer: Tesla service is really bad and needs improvement.
You: yes but they are the most valuable car maker so it’s all good!

 

[ngng]

No, it was the JD power survey.

It's often mocked because they include any little problem including people confused about how something works. Obviously with a Tesla a lot of things work differently so its going to take time.

Now I'm not defending Tesla in saying this as I do think their initial quality stinks. It's just that it's not exactly a respected survey.

 

[Krazaak]

I think Tesla has a lot they need to fix still, but I think the transition from the Tesla of the past to a slightly fixed Tesla of today was inevitable. Their long term goal wasn't so sell niche EVs for exorbitant prices it was to drive the mass adoption of EVs. You can't run a company in the red forever.

They're not even at 4 consecutive quarters of profitability yet and they're just coming off one factory build, in the middle of another and planning the next. I'm not surprised things are rocky right now and I believe they need to make sure they don't lose focus on improving initial quality and customer satisfaction, but I also don't think they're that bad on either.

I recognize they're definitely not Lexus level service and quality, but my local SC at least exceeds my experience with either local BMW dealership. Of course, people do have different SC experiences based on location, which is one of those problems on the list, but I'd be careful labeling those that have consistent good experience as fanboys; some of us actually have very good service experiences.

Honestly, I don't know if Tesla's business model is sustainable as is. Designing, manufacturing, selling and servicing made sense when they were low volume, but you can see the strain as they increase volume. From subpar service locations to the used purchase experience that went from high quality refurbished CPO to a bit of a gamble of used car quality.

I don't know if the answer is Tesla partnering with other companies for certain functions like used car sales or just restructuring sales/service into a self-sufficient organization that handles final QA, transportation repairs and service.

 

[XLR82XS]

If I recall correctly, that was Consumer Reports who listed them last for initial quality. The interesting part of that was that Tesla came in first in their customer satisfaction survey. One would think those could not go together. Something is keeping people enthusiastic about their Tesla cars despite the well-known problems.

I received 2 surveys in the mail from 2 different companies for my Model 3's. I reported honestly when asked about how many times the car required service in the first 30/60/90 days. The 2020 was in for service for axle clicking but aside from that I've had no other major issues. I'm not sure how it gets reported once the deadline is reached but it must effect the quality numbers when all said and done especially if 300,000 people all report some level of repair be it minor or major. Do the survey companies use any type of service issue by report or by level or repair do make a final report about quality?