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wiztecy
Active Member
Heartbreaking picture 
I hate to say it, but I did see this coming sooner or later with this company and not surprised when I first saw this thead. They tried to make themselves and others believe they were experts at something that's highly specialized, needs serious respect, precautions, and dedication to detail, when with all reality, they were not even close at all being specialized or an expert whatsoever at all with this. They made themselves believe that working on UPS / Battery backup systems and consulting with a couple of people who had limited knowledge on the design gave them somehow the expertise to work on this stuff, and with that, a disaster occurred. I'm certain they were warned more than once by true experts on the 'thin ice' they were treading on.
There are a few people on this forum whom I give confidence with working on PEM, batteries and the technology the Roadster is built with. Gruber was not and is not one of them. It takes a mature, lack of ego and open mindset to understand the huge responsibility you're taking on with this type of work to do is safely and successfully. You can't be taking shortcuts, taking your eye off the ball at any time with this at all. Period.
Gruber has always in my mind given me a "shady" feeling from what I've experienced and seen here on TMC. I'm sure there are others who've had the same impression.
I hate to say it, but I did see this coming sooner or later with this company and not surprised when I first saw this thead. They tried to make themselves and others believe they were experts at something that's highly specialized, needs serious respect, precautions, and dedication to detail, when with all reality, they were not even close at all being specialized or an expert whatsoever at all with this. They made themselves believe that working on UPS / Battery backup systems and consulting with a couple of people who had limited knowledge on the design gave them somehow the expertise to work on this stuff, and with that, a disaster occurred. I'm certain they were warned more than once by true experts on the 'thin ice' they were treading on.
There are a few people on this forum whom I give confidence with working on PEM, batteries and the technology the Roadster is built with. Gruber was not and is not one of them. It takes a mature, lack of ego and open mindset to understand the huge responsibility you're taking on with this type of work to do is safely and successfully. You can't be taking shortcuts, taking your eye off the ball at any time with this at all. Period.
Gruber has always in my mind given me a "shady" feeling from what I've experienced and seen here on TMC. I'm sure there are others who've had the same impression.
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ElectricLove
Member
The loss of the T-Zero is the worst part for sure... I believe the count of Roadsters may have been 5. I know there were 2 total of the Electric Green 2.5 Roadsters in the "fleet" but not sure if both were there, one was not typically housed there.
Very sad day for sure!
Very sad day for sure!
ElectricLove
Member
VIN 114 was my personal car and had nothing to do with Gruber. Also, it should be noted, I haven't worked there for a year. VIN 114 is safe and sound!
A bit weird that the case of the ESS and everything else melted but the cells are still recognisable.
DaveD
EVs Kick Gas!
I was just recently attending some routine, corporate fire awareness training and it occurred to me this building could have definitely benefited from fire separation - especially in separating areas of storage from areas where high-risk battery work was being carried in. I would assume that could have given time to transport the stored cars out from the building.
Storing precious near-one-of-kind vehicles inside an open area automotive/battery workshop?
Storing precious near-one-of-kind vehicles inside an open area automotive/battery workshop?
The set up looked not unlike my local SC, so maybe there are lessons for all of us here.
wiztecy
Active Member
However your Tesla did all the battery experiments away from any historic cars, in safe rooms, to determine what the safe voltage threshold is for recovering a battery pack and where danger occurs. Nor are SC technicians trained to work on taking apart and recovering the ESS. The SC sends back the packs to HQ for this very reason. Your SC is NOT doing some home grown testing and recovery procedures with Lithium batteries around other cars or people, so that's quite a bit different and not really an apples to apples comparison. Truth is many people's garages are like the SC's. A typical fire can be extinguished rather quickly, a lithium ion is a run-away fire and needs special training and methods to put it out safely, especially when someone induces the short unexpectedly. If you don't have the proper setup, work should never be performed inside a building. If you don't have the proper knowledge, engineering background, expertise and especially the mindset it takes to work on the ESS, please don't do it.
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Does anyone know if customer PEMs that were in for an upgrade were stored in that building or stored in the other building?
Tex EV
Member
Hate to bring it up, but does any type of insurance cover that loss? I see parallels to an unlicensed electrician trying a new wire splice technique he saw on YouTube which results in your house burning down 2 weeks later. Insurance wouldn't pay you a dime.
wiztecy
Active Member
Was thinking the same thing, that and battery enclosures. If any of that was there I'd hate to be in those customer's shoes. It may turn out that as stated above, the insurance will not cover the replacement leaving the customer flip their own bill for a brand new PEM or battery enclosure. So those couple thousands of dollars the customer believed they saved by not going to Tesla just turned into an unexpected repair and replacement bill in the tens of thousands.
A good note if you're going that route to save money, an independent shop (especially with borderline experience) is to ask them about the what-if's, what if my parts get stolen or destroyed. What type of insurance do you have and can I see proof that I will be covered. If customers were so unfortunate, which I hope none were, they now have to wait to see how this all unfolds. And if the insurance does not cover it, then they need to go the lawyer route which nobody likes but its the only route to fair resolution.
wiztecy
Active Member
Another news link:
Lithium batteries fuel fire at Phoenix manufacturing building
"Phoenix Fire Department says factory that makes Tesla car batteries is on fire. VERY toxic smoke from burning lithium."
^That type of wording in the article gives Tesla a bad name by association.^
And a link from Teslarati:
Historic "Tzero" that inspired Musk to create Tesla's Roadster burned down in a fire
"A fire at Gruber Motors has left one of the last Tzeros on the planet in ashes after an allegedly experimental procedure being performed on a Roadster battery caused a fire."
I was very fortunate to see the TZero (#2) when it was displayed at the Staff of Life in Santa Cruz on I believe EV / Earth Day. Was such a beautiful car and was like no other. Really wish it never traded hands.
Lithium batteries fuel fire at Phoenix manufacturing building
"Phoenix Fire Department says factory that makes Tesla car batteries is on fire. VERY toxic smoke from burning lithium."
^That type of wording in the article gives Tesla a bad name by association.^
And a link from Teslarati:
Historic "Tzero" that inspired Musk to create Tesla's Roadster burned down in a fire
"A fire at Gruber Motors has left one of the last Tzeros on the planet in ashes after an allegedly experimental procedure being performed on a Roadster battery caused a fire."
I was very fortunate to see the TZero (#2) when it was displayed at the Staff of Life in Santa Cruz on I believe EV / Earth Day. Was such a beautiful car and was like no other. Really wish it never traded hands.
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hockeythug
Active Member
InsideEV's coverage of the event also has a picture of how the shop looked at a luncheon a few hours prior to the fire.
Here's the article - Electric Car History Lost In Fire: Tzero and Tesla Roadsters Burn Away
Here's the article - Electric Car History Lost In Fire: Tzero and Tesla Roadsters Burn Away
wiztecy
Active Member
If you had any work done to your Roadster by Gruber, I for sure would ask Tesla to take a look at it to ensure it was performed properly. Its better to be safe and I'm sure Tesla would be ok with looking at it.
Gruber obviously wanted to do things their own way when recovering this ESS in an experimental fashion and not follow proper procedures and thresholds that are well known and should have never been crossed. Experts who are properly qualified and trained in this area know to never ride thin along that line, and typically add some cushion in there for safety reasons.
Gruber obviously wanted to do things their own way when recovering this ESS in an experimental fashion and not follow proper procedures and thresholds that are well known and should have never been crossed. Experts who are properly qualified and trained in this area know to never ride thin along that line, and typically add some cushion in there for safety reasons.
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