Firmware 5.8

[brianman]

Doubt that's a coincidence. Loaners are also demo cars and the sales folk need to be able to demonstrate the air suspension. I take it as further affirmation that air suspension is coming back.

Can we please be a little more precise with our language? The air suspension was not disabled or removed.

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Holy cow! That was it! My stiffer Sport steering and stronger Standard Regen appear to be back
What a lame bug though...

I know they tend to read the forums, but please pass this on formally to ownership@, gg_.

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Nope, it is not. For those of us are (were) affected, this was very real. And rebooting the screens does bring it back to where it was.
Trust me, @brianman. It was very noticeable. This was not something I imagined. I literally drove the same loop twice. Once before the reboot and once after. Significant​ difference.

Summary: if you have the regen problem in 5.8, reboot your screens and try again.

I didn't say it was imagined. My theory was that it was a weather change situation. The "stuck"/"broken" setting on upgrade is an even better explanation. If true, it definitely shows that many Model S drivers will pass the "Pepsi challenge" if you change their regen settings.

 

[yobigd20]

This is incorrect. I posted a video in the other thread with speeds up to 95 mph and no sign of autolowering[./QUOTE]

The exact point of lowering is 96.5mph. That's because 60mph=96.5kph. They screwed up the unit conversion this is first major release after EU deliveries so this isn't surprising. This exact number is verified by me as well as others here (95mph isn't fast enough to trigger it).

Nope, it is not. For those of us are (were) affected, this was very real. And rebooting the screens does bring it back to where it was.
Trust me, @brianman. It was very noticeable. This was not something I imagined. I literally drove the same loop twice. Once before the reboot and once after. Significant​ difference.

Summary: if you have the regen problem in 5.8, reboot your screens and try again.

This "car" is really a "computer on wheels", so perhaps we should treat it as one. What's the typical technical response for ID10T errors? "Turn it off, and turn it on again." lol

 

[jerry33]

Or better yet, why don't they just force an entire system reboot after every update? This should help clear the vast majority of glitches.

I'm thinking that they do, but it's been said that it sometimes requires two reboots (three if you take into account the hypothesized automatic one). There's really no way that they can tell how many it might need. Also it appears that part of the fix is toggling the settings before the reboot. Yes, a program could be written to toggle every setting reboot toggle every setting and reboot again, but there's more chance for errors in that kind of a program than there is in just doing a final reboot.

Perhaps the correct answer is to have better communication between ownership and programming.

 

[brianman]

This is incorrect. I posted a video in the other thread with speeds up to 95 mph and no sign of autolowering.

The exact point of lowering is 96.5mph. That's because 60mph=96.5kph.

Yes, there's a report of that floating around TMC. That's not my point. My point is that the article said 87mph (as per what I quoted), which is incorrect, as I noted.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I'm having a hard time believing that a reboot or two cured people's regen setting.

When I put my car on low regen, the regen never gets stronger than 30 kW. Unless I missed it (very possible), no one has previously mentioned that their regen was limited to 30 kW. My normal regen setting allows regen to 60 kW.

 

[jerry33]

I'm having a hard time believing that a reboot or two cured people's regen setting.

When a firmware upgrade is done many different EPROMs might be touched. It's not really that surprising that sometimes they don't 100% come up correctly. Although many people have said the Model S is just a computer on wheels, it's not a computer like your desktop or laptop. Instead of just a one or a few CPUs and GPUs there are many ECUs plus CPUs and GPUs. If they don't all come up in the correct sequence or they still retain memory from a previous state, this kind of thing might happen. In fact, I'd say that retaining the memory from a previous state, such as a state that's created during the upgrade process, is the cause of the unintended behaviour. By toggling and rebooting you're flushing the memory and causing the correct code to be reread.

 

[Babylonfive]

As the manufacturer of a J1772 lock, you can imagine that I'm frustrated on this one as well.

First (because I had a recall due to the previous lack of it): at least the 'port unlock' function still works manually.

Next, because I've had a VERY REMOTE relationship with SW support team, I've striven to communicate to them the appropriate set of 'lock/unlock' behaviors for the charge port, and unfortunately they keep messing it up IMHO. Every time I get a chance I send my CS contact a table of intended results based on: 1) pushbutton action on J1772 charging station button and 2) owner-in-range status. I point out the convenience of promiscuous unlock when in owner's in range, and the high-security unlock when out of range (for those with or without a CapturePro).

The high-security mode improvement (?) makes lots of sense, but not when the owner is around! Argh.

David

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but with v5.8 the J1772 adapter never unlocks from the vehicle.

Previously, when I unplug the charge point, the J1772 would always just come right out with it.

Now, it stays locked to the car, and the only way to unlock it is to go to the console and manually push the unlock charge port button.

The thing that I don't know what the behavior of this pre-v5.8 if you didn't have your key fob with you. I just assumed that the adapter would always stay locked to the car unless you have the key fob within range.

Regardless of that previous behavior, now the adapter is always locked and only can be unlocked via the console screen. It doesn't matter if you have the key fob within range. The door handles extend so I know the car detects the key fob. Even manually unlocking the car with the key fob doesn't release the adapter. You always have to use the console screen now which I find slightly annoying. I have to unplug the car, open the door, lean in, push the charge point button, then get out and pull the adapter out.

I'd prefer the adapter to stay locked to the car, but it should unlock when I am within range.

As it seems natural the unplug the car first (instead of unlocking from the console screen) I wonder if they made this change so that people would stop leaving their adapters attached to the charging station plug.

Again, this is a behavior that should be configurable in a menu - not Tesla dictating its behavior to us. It's annoying.

 

[dirkhh]

I didn't say it was imagined. My theory was that it was a weather change situation. The "stuck"/"broken" setting on upgrade is an even better explanation. If true, it definitely shows that many Model S drivers will pass the "Pepsi challenge" if you change their regen settings.

Well, in the section I quoted you agreed with another poster who said it was "mass hysteria" which seems to imply that you thought it wasn't real.
And yes, if you change one of my favorite aspects of my car... I will notice.
I actually sent email to ownership pointing this out, hoping that a) they will start recommending this to others who complain (weird as it may sound, I'm reasonable certain that there are Tesla drivers who don't read this forum three times a day or more) and b) talk to engineering about making sure that there is a final reboot in the upgrade process so these things don't happen anymore.

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I'm having a hard time believing that a reboot or two cured people's regen setting.

When I put my car on low regen, the regen never gets stronger than 30 kW. Unless I missed it (very possible), no one has previously mentioned that their regen was limited to 30 kW. My normal regen setting allows regen to 60 kW.

My regen definitely was stronger than 'low'. And equally definitely weaker than 'standard'.
So no, I don't think it was stuck in 'low'. I believe that some data table that is used to control the standard regen got corrupted during the upgrade and was re-initialized in a reboot.
As a software developer I can imagine some invalid pointer being written through somewhere in the process... and that could corrupt the parameter table for some of us and not for others. And it could corrupt other settings (like the steering wheel issue) for others.
No one wants to think that memory access errors are in the firmware, but assuming there aren't any is simply foolish. Even with the best tools and the best testing.

 

[dsmith2189]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but with v5.8 the J1772 adapter never unlocks from the vehicle.

Previously, when I unplug the charge point, the J1772 would always just come right out with it.

Now, it stays locked to the car, and the only way to unlock it is to go to the console and manually push the unlock charge port button.

The thing that I don't know what the behavior of this pre-v5.8 if you didn't have your key fob with you. I just assumed that the adapter would always stay locked to the car unless you have the key fob within range.

Regardless of that previous behavior, now the adapter is always locked and only can be unlocked via the console screen. It doesn't matter if you have the key fob within range. The door handles extend so I know the car detects the key fob. Even manually unlocking the car with the key fob doesn't release the adapter. You always have to use the console screen now which I find slightly annoying. I have to unplug the car, open the door, lean in, push the charge point button, then get out and pull the adapter out.

I'd prefer the adapter to stay locked to the car, but it should unlock when I am within range.

As it seems natural the unplug the car first (instead of unlocking from the console screen) I wonder if they made this change so that people would stop leaving their adapters attached to the charging station plug.

Again, this is a behavior that should be configurable in a menu - not Tesla dictating its behavior to us. It's annoying.

while I agree that they changed the locking behavior to stay locked more securely, I disagree that it never unlocks from the vehicle. I have only had to manually unlock from the screen once since I upgraded to 5.6/5.8. the trick for me is that the car has to be unlocked before I try to unplug the J1772. sometimes when it doesn't unlock the adapter the first time I pull it out. I put the J1772 plug back into the adapter for a moment and then take it back out. then I see the ring change color and I hear the click I can pull the J1772 adapter out.

 

[jomo25]

while I agree that they changed the locking behavior to stay locked more securely, I disagree that it never unlocks from the vehicle. I have only had to manually unlock from the screen once since I upgraded to 5.6/5.8. the trick for me is that the car has to be unlocked before I try to unplug the J1772. sometimes when it doesn't unlock the adapter the first time I pull it out. I put the J1772 plug back into the adapter for a moment and then take it back out. then I see the ring change color and I hear the click I can pull the J1772 adapter out.

Seriously, I use the J1772 every night to charge. I haven't noticed even a bit of difference with 5.8 (.22) from 4.5. Granted, I don't do much besides plug it in and take it out. But that is working identically to previously. Perhaps another thing that needs a couple reboots to fix...

 

[phat78boy]

Well, in the section I quoted you agreed with another poster who said it was "mass hysteria" which seems to imply that you thought it wasn't real.
And yes, if you change one of my favorite aspects of my car... I will notice.
I actually sent email to ownership pointing this out, hoping that a) they will start recommending this to others who complain (weird as it may sound, I'm reasonable certain that there are Tesla drivers who don't read this forum three times a day or more) and b) talk to engineering about making sure that there is a final reboot in the upgrade process so these things don't happen anymore.

Yes, I immediately noticed the changes. I was more upset with the my pedal than the air suspension. I emailed and called to voice my opinion and my local service department even confirmed they were seeing the same thing. While the engineers were saying nothing changed, many people were experiencing change.

I emailed my local service tech and asked him to try it on the vehicle's at his shop. If it works for him as well, I asked him to bubble this feedback up to the engineers.

 

[dirkhh]

Yes, I immediately noticed the changes. I was more upset with the my pedal than the air suspension. I emailed and called to voice my opinion and my local service department even confirmed they were seeing the same thing. While the engineers were saying nothing changed, many people were experiencing change.

I emailed my local service tech and asked him to try it on the vehicle's at his shop. If it works for him as well, I asked him to bubble this feedback up to the engineers.

Please also send email to [email protected]
The more people who experienced this they hear from, the more likely they will realize it's not a few crack heads making things up

 

[phat78boy]

Please also send email to [email protected]
The more people who experienced this they hear from, the more likely they will realize it's not a few crack heads making things up

Done.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Done:

I have Model S VIN 3552 and upgraded from firmware version 4.5 to 5.8 last week.

Wanted to report a bug with the upgrade process so that you can deal with other customer inquiries accordingly and get this addressed with future updates: I have had Regen set to Standard and Steering set to Sport for a long time. When the upgrade to 5.8 happened, the driver settings still reflected these selections as above but, the actual regen that I experienced (even in warm weather) appeared to decrease substantially and the steering also appeared to have gone softer.

I assumed first that these changes were done on purpose in 5.8 but, that they simply weren't included in the release notes.

Turned out that the settings UI was not actually reflecting what the car was doing after the upgrade! I toggled the selections back and forth and rebooted the touchscreen and only then did the stronger regen and stiffer steering feel return.

Please log a bug with engineering accordingly so that this can be avoided in future upgrades.

 

[brianman]

Well, in the section I quoted you agreed with another poster who said it was "mass hysteria" which seems to imply that you thought it wasn't real.

What I was referring to was "something changed in the matrix, OMG they ninja'd something else in 5.8" mass hysteria. The immediate jump to this conclusion lately has gotten a bit out of hand, IMO.

"In the before time" (before 5.8) when something "seemed different" in one's car, the thread title would be something like "My car's doing something weird today. When I ..."

These days it's "OMG they changed it, those bastards, I want a refund."


In the overall scheme, I find it very frustrating from a TMC member perspective. From a Tesla perspective, I see it as generally a good thing because it means they are moving past the "early adopter" phase to the "normal consumer" phase (where everything is a problem and the company is evil and ...). Perhaps you'll know they've really made it when we start seeing posts about how Bush and Microsoft collaborated to corrupt Tesla firmware.

 

[ACDriveMotor]

Brian, unfortunately that is probably only going to get worse as ownership broadens beyond the pioneering types. Newer owners, like myself, don't yet have much history with TMC to bolster our confidence through the little speed bumps. That should attenuate over time. The mission to bring EV to a broader market will bring new owner expectations, some reasonable and some not.

 

[Al Sherman]

Brian, unfortunately that is probably only going to get worse as ownership broadens beyond the pioneering types..

True and I think BMan knows this. I think I understand what he's saying. I don't feel he's complaining about this. I think he's just making an observation. I don't think there's any judgement. I lurked here for years before I contributed. In the "olden days" the conversation was more of a conversation. Not as many ultimatums and fist pounding, even after the MS was released. Again, I don't think there's judgement involved. I think he's just observing a shift. For better, or worse, or both.

Although we did have that somewhat humorous phase when lots of early adopters still just had reservations that I call: The Deal Breaker Phase. Remember Bman?

 

[brianman]

unfortunately that is probably only going to get worse as ownership broadens beyond the pioneering types.

Totally agree. Remember to tip your moderators, it's going to get bumpy.

 

[huntjo]

What I was referring to was "something changed in the matrix, OMG they ninja'd something else in 5.8" mass hysteria. The immediate jump to this conclusion lately has gotten a bit out of hand, IMO.

"In the before time" (before 5.8) when something "seemed different" in one's car, the thread title would be something like "My car's doing something weird today. When I ..."

These days it's "OMG they changed it, those bastards, I want a refund."


In the overall scheme, I find it very frustrating from a TMC member perspective. From a Tesla perspective, I see it as generally a good thing because it means they are moving past the "early adopter" phase to the "normal consumer" phase (where everything is a problem and the company is evil and ...). Perhaps you'll know they've really made it when we start seeing posts about how Bush and Microsoft collaborated to corrupt Tesla firmware.

This actually makes me feel a tiny bit better.
I was just lamenting the fact that my favorite fanboy site had been taken over by crybabies and prima donnas. But the fact that they are here is actually a sign that Tesla is moving into the mainstream. After all, the entitlement/ me first movement is hardly specific to TMC. It's sweeping across America, and likely other countries. I blame 24 hr news networks and the the internet age. It's the perfect blend of instant feedback and lack of personal face to face discussion. Inflammatory statements can be made without consequence. Anonymity can be used to decieve and mislead. Nobody has to listen to the other guy's explanation. Tone and emotion cannot be conveyed, so misunderstanding is common. Then people get offended when you point out that theyre over-reacting to intentionally hyped fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
I installed 5.8 on the weekend that everyone was panicking about the stealth change. I did it because I bought an upgradeable product that gets better the longer I own it. I understand the theoretical handling changes of a higher ride height, but I also understand that Tesla is not going to sell many cars if they handle poorly, so I choose to believe there will be further changes that either restores the pre-existing lower at speed behavior, or else an improved feature.

 

[dirkhh]

Totally agree. Remember to tip your moderators, it's going to get bumpy.

So yes, absolutely, tip your moderators.
But I think the bumpiness comes much more from old timers reacting negatively and aggressively against anyone who says anything that is even mildly critical or could be construed to be such.
I am super excited about Tesla, I love my car, I'm extremely used to dealing with pre-release software (though I usually don't pay $80k for a computer running pre-release software). As an open source person I am used to an open and confrontational style. If something is broken I will say "This Is Broken". I will not say "Tesla is perfect, Elon will never make a mistake, I will kiss the ground that He is walking on". And that seems to be the cause of much more bumpiness than the people who say "hey, this was broken in the upgrade". Because, guess what, IT WAS BROKEN IN THE UPGRADE. And guess what, software that upgrades and then doesn't work right isn't sufficiently tested and mature to be released without decent release notes (the ones they give us a joke) and without clear messaging that this is pre-release software.
I react extremely negatively to being treated like an idiot. Whether by Tesla or by other posters here. I have been a software developer for 30 years and have been on the leading edge of open source for over 20. Tesla is treating us at the same time as beta testers (without being open about that) and as consumers of consumer electronics (with the opacity of their releases). That combination does not sit well with me.
That doesn't mean that I don't like the product or the company. That means that I absolutely love both and constantly promote them, but I do so with an eye on intellectual honesty and a desire for a more open development model.

Moderators, after collecting my tip, please feel free to move this into a better thread - I feel this is getting off-topic for a 5.8 discussion

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I was just lamenting the fact that my favorite fanboy site had been taken over by crybabies and prima donnas.

(emphasis mine) - yeah, that's what this sometimes feels like. And I was hoping more for a site for Tesla enthusiasts discussing their favorite piece of technology - not for a fanboy site shouting down anything that could be construed as being negative.

After all, the entitlement/ me first movement is hardly specific to TMC. It's sweeping across America, and likely other countries. I blame 24 hr news networks and the the internet age. It's the perfect blend of instant feedback and lack of personal face to face discussion. Inflammatory statements can be made without consequence.

You are confusing me. So you think that people pointing out issues are cry babies and they do so anonymously here? I don't perceive this as anonymous at all - and I'll be happy to share my identity with anyone interested (and yes, a quick check shows that the first six hits for "dirkhh" on Google are me and the very first one has my full name).

Anonymity can be used to decieve and mislead. Nobody has to listen to the other guy's explanation. Tone and emotion cannot be conveyed, so misunderstanding is common. Then people get offended when you point out that theyre over-reacting to intentionally hyped fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

People also get offended if they report an issue and one of the first responses is "it's your mistake, you're making it up, get used to it".