Firmware 6.0 (beta version discussion)

[chickensevil]

Why?
i would actually like them to take the opposite route.
Tesla sometimes claim they want to be a game changer. Then why not be that completely? Publicize the sw plans. Target dates, target features etc. Then as the plans change, communicate the changes.
this can be extended to even more things. Publicly communicate production figures in real time, model x and 3 dev progress, etc, etc. THAT would make them a real game changer...

You guys have apparently never played an MMO... There is an interesting dynamic and fine line between how much information you can and should give out before a release is made. This is basically like an MMO for the update releases (Heck I am sure some day they will release an update that you will have to pay for the expansion pack... I.e a new car... In order to use those particular features). That being said, the fastest development time is releasing big updates all at once vs small updates in a shorter interval. The reason that's true is the amount of separate working versions you have to maintain. If they made their version numbering more clear then it would make a bit more sense... But basically the major releases should have all the good stuff. When they are done with that package it should be pushed out through the appropriate QC chains, testing, etc... As soon as they push out for testing to the core design team has already moved on and is working on the next update. So let's say version 1 is in testing, the Dev team is now cracking away at version 2. Any changes made to version 1 they have to duplicate that change into version 2 at the same time... This makes it the simplest for hot fixes and patches...

Contrast that with a rapid release cycle of every month... Let's say you have a Dev time for a new feature of one month an internal test time of one month, an alpha (friends and family) test of one month, a beta of one month, and then it goes gold. By the time the product goes gold the core Dev team would actually be 5 versions ahead... This means when a critical problem is detected in any one of the previous 4 versions they have to stop everything and roll those fixes forward... This hurts the amount of time they get to focus on new stuff because they have to spend so much time rolling hot fixes forward.

At least that has been my experience with dealing with it. Right this moment the Dev team is dealing with AT LEAST three different versions... 5.12, 6.0, and 6.1. A critical bug detected in 5.12 would have to be hotfixed into 5.13... Think fire issue with the suspension change.... That would be a critical hotfix. Now you might have to roll that change forward across two working versions and that takes time... How much time depends on the complexity of the fix and how much it interferes with NEW code that you are working on implementing.

So no... I don't think they should speed up the release cycle. I think they should slow it down... 6 month cycles should be more than fast enough. Which... If you have been keeping tabs, 5.9 came out with a bunch of cool features around March... This release is coming in Sept... So we are looking a major updates in that cycling... They should be fine keeping it that way. If you want MORE features slipped in there they will need more people... Given the nature of these updates not really costing us anything (where ARE they getting funding for this?) I don't know how much you can expect them to do.

 

[flashflood]

I don't think they'd censor anything else like this. Isn't that kind of the advantage of these forums to discuss at will things like this freely?

This is a bit of a gray area. Commentary about Tesla -- the company, the cars, the stock -- should indeed flow freely here, within the bounds of general human decency; and it does. But keeping up a post containing information that could only be obtained by violating an NDA puts the TMC forum in the position of aiding and abetting an unethical act. And unlike, say, the Snowden situation -- in which a criminal act could nevertheless be justified as necessary for the public good -- there is no real justification here other than our own curiosity. That said, this being the Internet, once something like this gets out, there's no taking it back. Deleting the offending post here would not delete the information from the world, it would just be a symbolic act of solidarity with Tesla -- though perhaps at the risk of irritating some TMC members. I'm glad I didn't have to make the mod call on this one.

 

[brianman]

I find this post unsatisfying. Quoting a bunch of stuff and providing no new value is something I've seen moderators chastise people for before...quite recently in fact. Perhaps we need moderator moderators.

My mistake. The word I meant was disappointing.

Very amusing; but you're far too smart to have missed the subtle, yet major, point I was making.

I guess you're wrong. All I see is a different standard applied to mods than was being applied by mods. Apparently I'm the only one that noticed or cares. Not the first time, nor will it be the last. But it's kind of like voting in that you can't complain about the eventual outcome if you don't speak up as things are going sideways.

 

[flashflood]

I guess you're wrong. All I see is a different standard applied to mods than was being applied by mods. Apparently I'm the only one that noticed or cares. Not the first time, nor will it be the last. But it's kind of like voting in that you can't complain about the eventual outcome if you don't speak up as things are going sideways.

I interpreted Nigel's post not as a criticism of anyone's else desires, but rather as a data-driven way of demonstrating that a bunch of actual Tesla owners have very different priorities. Everyone has a reason for wanting specific things, and everyone is different -- so there's no pleasing all of us at once.

 

[chickensevil]

I interpreted Nigel's post not as a criticism of anyone's else desires, but rather as a data-driven way of demonstrating that a bunch of actual Tesla owners have very different priorities. Everyone has a reason for wanting specific things, and everyone is different -- so there's no pleasing all of us at once.

I'm pretty sure it was emphasing that everyone hypes these up so much that all we get is "this is disappointing..." Or "I am disappointed"

I for one am happy that we keep getting cool features regardless of what they prioritize. Some things are indeed cooler to me than others but whatever we get I will be happy because it isn't something I am directly paying for. I got much more heated over incremental updates during my MMO days because at least that was a product I was continually paying for and could just stop at any time... It just isn't the same with the car. I bought it with the features it had in mind and that was the driving force... Anything else is a bonus.

 

[NigelM]

I interpreted Nigel's post not as a criticism of anyone's else desires, but rather as a data-driven way of demonstrating that a bunch of actual Tesla owners have very different priorities. Everyone has a reason for wanting specific things, and everyone is different -- so there's no pleasing all of us at once.

You win! Thanks for posting that, maybe I was too subtle but as I stated before I'm not going to get my favorite things either and there's no way Tesla is going to make everyone happy (especially when I realized the length of our collective wish list). As a very good friend pointed out to me many years ago:

"Success is getting what you want, happiness is wanting what you get."

 

[artsci]

I'm pretty sure it was emphasing that everyone hypes these up so much that all we get is "this is disappointing..." Or "I am disappointed"

I for one am happy that we keep getting cool features regardless of what they prioritize. Some things are indeed cooler to me than others but whatever we get I will be happy because it isn't something I am directly paying for. I got much more heated over incremental updates during my MMO days because at least that was a product I was continually paying for and could just stop at any time... It just isn't the same with the car. I bought it with the features it had in mind and that was the driving force... Anything else is a bonus.

+1 -- I'm with you all the way on this.

 

[bonnie]

My mistake. The word I meant was disappointing.

I guess you're wrong. All I see is a different standard applied to mods than was being applied by mods. Apparently I'm the only one that noticed or cares. Not the first time, nor will it be the last. But it's kind of like voting in that you can't complain about the eventual outcome if you don't speak up as things are going sideways.

Maybe it's not that you're the only one who noticed or cared. Perhaps it is that you're the only one who took it that way. Everyone else seemed to interpret it another way, brianman, different than you did. Including me.

You say there was no new value - when in fact, compiling the list was the value -- just like any data analysis exercise, looking at information in a different way gives different insights. And the point was clear to everyone else, it appears. There are a lot of people who feel a lot of different features are the most important ... and are disappointed that they are not seeing those features in this release.

I really don't think the point Nigel was making was all that subtle. And I know you're smart. So I can only assume something else is going on that is bothering you.

As far as your point about different standards for moderators ... oh yeah, we have a different standard. You, for instance, can use 'ffs' in a post without doug coming down on your head. I cannot. Because he expects the moderators to hold to a higher standard than the other posters here. It's frustrating at times. But yes, we do have a different standard that we're held to. All the mods know it. We can't use language that you can use. We are expected to maintain our cool when everyone else is losing it. Different standard, you are indeed correct.

In general, anytime anyone feels that a moderator is abusing their powers, send a note to doug. He takes it seriously. He gets all reports and investigates all. So you're not without recourse if you think someone has been unfair to you.

 

[Kraken]

Everyone is feeling like 6.0 is short of what we expect for something that took so long, but maybe it actually was Massive as hyped by Elon and others.... But We instead received 65% of it in 5.9 - 5.12, and we will receive the last 10% in 6.1

those all came out between the announcement of 6.0 and the yet to be released 6.0. For all we know, there is a feature in iOS 8 that was essential for the last couple of things in 6.0, so they released the rest of the features, and they held off on the last few things that made it officially 6.0

my question is what benefitted he cross country trippers the most, if they did happen to have 6.0. What benefitted the guys at the track a month ago?

 

[brianman]

In general, anytime anyone feels that a moderator is abusing their powers, send a note to doug. He takes it seriously. He gets all reports and investigates all. So you're not without recourse if you think someone has been unfair to you.

To be clear, that's not what I was saying here.

My point was that "quoting and saying little or nothing" is either good or bad. I've seen moderators chastise posters for doing that as bad in the (recent) past. That implies it's bad. Seeing a moderator do it implies it's good. I don't like mixed signals like this. It's just generally bad and is a slippery slope that leads to hurt feelings and just generally bad juju.

- - - Updated - - -

I interpreted Nigel's post not as a criticism of anyone's else desires, but rather as a data-driven way of demonstrating that a bunch of actual Tesla owners have very different priorities. Everyone has a reason for wanting specific things, and everyone is different -- so there's no pleasing all of us at once.

That was one interpretation. I had at least 4 interpretations of Nigel's intent in that post. I didn't feel comfortable commenting on any of them because I wasn't really sure which he was saying and I didn't want to step out of bounds by guessing the wrong one.

Ambiguity is sometimes a bad thing. Here it was, IMO.

 

[bonnie]

To be clear, that's not what I was saying here.

My point was that "quoting and saying little or nothing" is either good or bad. I've seen moderators chastise posters for doing that as bad in the (recent) past. That implies it's bad. Seeing a moderator do it implies it's good. I don't like mixed signals like this. It's just generally bad and is a slippery slope that leads to hurt feelings and just generally bad juju.

I've chastised for that, but perhaps you've missed the point before. When people are providing a link and little to no context for the link, then yes, I've asked that they provide a summary or something so that people know what it's about before having to click. The other mods are pretty consistent on that, too.

Sorry you still cannot see that Nigel's actual message was in the arrangement of the various quotes he put together & that no further comment was necessary. The arrangement said it all.

At this point, it's probably not worth discussing further.

 

[omarsultan]

Nigel certainly can defend himself. However, I understand his comment perfectly and it reflects what he and a few others have been saying in previous posts on this thread.

^^^ THAT

 

[rlang59]

Everyone is feeling like 6.0 is short of what we expect for something that took so long, but maybe it actually was Massive as hyped by Elon and others.... But We instead received 65% of it in 5.9 - 5.12, and we will receive the last 10% in 6.1

those all came out between the announcement of 6.0 and the yet to be released 6.0. For all we know, there is a feature in iOS 8 that was essential for the last couple of things in 6.0, so they released the rest of the features, and they held off on the last few things that made it officially 6.0

my question is what benefitted he cross country trippers the most, if they did happen to have 6.0. What benefitted the guys at the track a month ago?

I hope they increase their support for Android, which has been lacking, and not tie features to needing an iPhone.

 

[Kraken]

I hope they increase their support for Android, which has been lacking, and not tie features to needing an iPhone.

I agree. I'm an android user (with an iPad). The difference in support is clear. That being said, I do think that if they had reason to wait for some feature from one or both, they would.

 

[FlasherZ]

I have my priority list too. Some match, some don't. Tesla has a lot of factors to balance -- their vision, customers' visionary requests, customers' incremental requests, engineering resources, the balance between S/X/3, etc. I, like others, am happy to see my car gain features and functionality.

 

[Gear]

I hope they increase their support for Android, which has been lacking, and not tie features to needing an iPhone.

I wish they'd provide some support for Windows Phone at all.

 

[apacheguy]

I have my priority list too. Some match, some don't. Tesla has a lot of factors to balance -- their vision, customers' visionary requests, customers' incremental requests, engineering resources, the balance between S/X/3, etc. I, like others, am happy to see my car gain features and functionality.

I'm very pleased to see functionality offered. However, when Tesla brings up features that never get released, well that's not very responsible IMO. Case in point, valet mode. Elon mentioned that valet mode had already been coded and just wasn't exposed to the user but would be released soon. That was over a year ago. Maybe it will be in 6.0, who knows? But it kinda sucks for the people that were anticipating it sooner based on expectations set by Tesla. I don't particularly care for valet mode, but I could just as easily write about something else if you aren't convinced.

 

[matbl]

To get back to discussion of the actual leaked pictures. There's one interesting thing that I haven't seen discussed. The first picture says "Update succeeded..." which only happens right after an update, right? If that's the case and the EXIF data from the pictures wasn't tampered with, the picture is from a very recent beta which would mean it's more or less the final one if it's supposed to be released in a couple of weeks. Or?

 

[Gear]

To get back to discussion of the actual leaked pictures. There's one interesting thing that I haven't seen discussed. The first picture says "Update succeeded..." which only happens right after an update, right? If that's the case and the EXIF data from the pictures wasn't tampered with, the picture is from a very recent beta which would mean it's more or less the final one if it's supposed to be released in a couple of weeks. Or?

I'm away from my car at the moment, but I suspect it says that anytime you bring up the info screen, no?

 

[galangg]

I hope they increase their support for Android, which has been lacking, and not tie features to needing an iPhone.

I agree.I got rid of my iPhone, and I don't intend to go back.