Firmware 6.2 - Navigation for non tech package?

[dirkhh]

6.2 2.4.136 now installed on my non-tech S.
I thought us non-techies would be the LAST to get it since we get such little benefit.
Valet Mode is nice but Range Assurance is useless w/o NAV because it figures as the crow flies.
With this update, I feel like a kid who's getting his brother's hand-me-downs.

Wow, that's spectacularly useless.
What were they thinking?

 

[JohnQ]

Wow, that's spectacularly useless.
What were they thinking?

you desperately need a sarcasm tag.

Of course, wikipedia has a bit of information about punctuation for irony and sarcasm. Irony punctuation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From Sarcasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though in the English language there is no standard accepted method to denote irony or sarcasm in written conversation, several forms of punctuation have been proposed. Among the oldest and frequently attested are the percontation point—furthered by Henry Denham in the 1580s—and the irony mark—furthered by Alcanter de Brahm in the 19th century. Both of these marks were represented visually by a ⸮ backwards question mark (unicode U+2E2E). Each of these punctuation marks are primarily used to indicate that a sentence should be understood as ironic, but not necessarily designate sarcasm that is not ironic. By contrast, more recent proposals, such as the snark mark, or the use of a following tilde are specifically intended to denote sarcasm rather than irony.[21] A bracketed exclamation point or question mark as well as scare quotes are also sometimes used to express irony or ironic sarcasm.[22]

 

[dirkhh]

you desperately need a sarcasm tag.

Why? I was serious. Range Assurance with distances based on the geodesic distance is spectacularly useless. That is the exact opposite of "removing range anxiety".

 

[JohnQ]

Why? I was serious. Range Assurance with distances based on the geodesic distance is spectacularly useless. That is the exact opposite of "removing range anxiety".

So do we know that range assurance operates on a non-tech Model S?

 

[arijaycomet]

Why? I was serious. Range Assurance with distances based on the geodesic distance is spectacularly useless. That is the exact opposite of "removing range anxiety".

How do you think it is going to work on cars with tech? Do you realize how much processing power it would take from the ECU of the nav to constantly be tracking distance, mileage, and elevation from current location to the nearest charger? Personally, I -highly- doubt that a car with nav/tech package is going to work any different. I guarantee you (I'd bet my mortgage on it) that ALL cars, even those with tech/nav, are using "as the crow flies" distances from your location to the nearest charge point. This would be the fastest/easiest (and lowest amount of processing power) required to constantly keep tabs on distances.

I'm sure Tesla accounts for this by factoring in some sort of percentage. Meaning, if your car has X rated miles left to empty, and you reach a point of maybe 110% of X, that is when it warns you. Allowing for 10% of "added" consumption when you travel to that charger. It seems like they would have to allow for this, because of too many variables (weather, traffic, HVAC usage, etc) that would prove way too difficult to attempt to calculate on the fly. My two cents on this matter...

 

[dirkhh]

How do you think it is going to work on cars with tech? Do you realize how much processing power it would take from the ECU of the nav to constantly be tracking distance, mileage, and elevation from current location to the nearest charger? Personally, I -highly- doubt that a car with nav/tech package is going to work any different. I guarantee you (I'd bet my mortgage on it) that ALL cars, even those with tech/nav, are using "as the crow flies" distances from your location to the nearest charge point. This would be the fastest/easiest (and lowest amount of processing power) required to constantly keep tabs on distances.

I'm sure Tesla accounts for this by factoring in some sort of percentage. Meaning, if your car has X rated miles left to empty, and you reach a point of maybe 110% of X, that is when it warns you. Allowing for 10% of "added" consumption when you travel to that charger. It seems like they would have to allow for this, because of too many variables (weather, traffic, HVAC usage, etc) that would prove way too difficult to attempt to calculate on the fly. My two cents on this matter...

I would be shocked if that was the case. For almost all cases the vast majority of the route it needs to calculate over time stays the same. So it only needs to start routing from where it is right now to the closest charger and the moment it hits a point that it had in its last calculation it can stop and take the rest from the previous run. This can be done with very little processing overhead.

 

[arijaycomet]

I would be shocked if that was the case. For almost all cases the vast majority of the route it needs to calculate over time stays the same. So it only needs to start routing from where it is right now to the closest charger and the moment it hits a point that it had in its last calculation it can stop and take the rest from the previous run. This can be done with very little processing overhead.

I'll say we can agree to disagree here. I've overloaded my car's processor many times due to 3G connection issues, multiple inputs, etc. I've frozen my 17" display at least 3 times in the 4 months i've owned my car. Given this I'd say it would be very silly for Tesla, knowing the limitations of the memory on the unit, to allow it to add more processing power required. Especially on long trips where it would be calculating distance between me and a supercharger (or any charger) I've never visited before. Attempting to essentially calculate a second route while at the same time having to calculate updates to my existing route, including factors like traffic etc, that would just be too much.

But really we both must admit we just don't really know. Perhaps someone should email Tesla tech support to ask/find out. I volunteer you ... haha!!!

 

[ged]

I hadn't thought about that... but I guess it makes sense. You really have no need to plot a route through a network of chargers that you don't have access to. It'd still be nice if it at least let you route through "destination" chargers (HPWCs).

Still, since I took the trip before and charged a 3 chargers along the way (not destination chargers), it would be nice if the Nav could incorporate those... even if it has to pop up a warning saying those chargers are non-tesla chargers and should be verified before departing.

Sadly, my spreadsheet which I shall re-title "The Tesla Range Anxiety Spreadsheet" from henceforth, is not going anywhere. :redface:

 

[PaulusdB]

How do you think it is going to work on cars with tech? Do you realize how much processing power it would take from the ECU of the nav to constantly be tracking distance, mileage, and elevation from current location to the nearest charger? Personally, I -highly- doubt that a car with nav/tech package is going to work any different. I guarantee you (I'd bet my mortgage on it) that ALL cars, even those with tech/nav, are using "as the crow flies" distances from your location to the nearest charge point. This would be the fastest/easiest (and lowest amount of processing power) required to constantly keep tabs on distances.

You've explained correctly why cloud-/server-based sat nav is the way to go, like e.g.. Waze.
How Tesla Motors got stuck this long in last century's nav technology is beyond me.

 

[dirkhh]

You've explained correctly why cloud-/server-based sat nav is the way to go, like e.g.. Waze.
How Tesla Motors got stuck this long in last century's nav technology is beyond me.

Problem is... what do you do if you have no connection? You HAVE to have in-vehicle processing and maps. There are large areas in the US (not so much in Europe, but definitely in parts of Australia) where you won't have data connectivity...

 

[PaulusdB]

You're right, that's why Waze caches map and routing information when losing internet connection.
Average customer satisfaction will rise when only Model S drivers without data connectivity would have to resort to sticking a device (TomTom or even Navigon) next to their center console.

 

[dirkhh]

You're right, that's why Waze caches map and routing information when losing internet connection.

Phantastic. And if I want to start a trip in a place with no connectivity I do... what?

Average customer satisfaction will rise when only Model S drivers without data connectivity would have to resort to sticking a device (TomTom or even Navigon) next to their center console.

I'm not doubting that Waze integration would be an amazing improvement. I am saying you can't have "cloud only" navigation in a car.

 

[PaulusdB]

When lost without data connectivity, you likely have so little routing options that these instruments can suffice:

 

[PaulusdB]

Of course some kind of fall back is needed. Like the already included Navigon solution.

 

[paco3791]

So do we know that range assurance operates on a non-tech Model S?

Yes, notification showed up when I got below 20 rated miles on my way home yesterday. I was only 4-5 miles form my house so ... not super useful. No way to designate a "home location" in non-tech cars that I'm aware of, although the adaptive preconditioning beta is supposed to figure that out on it's own. I'm a little surprised that range assurance can't do the same thing based on where you do your charging on a regular basis even if it isn't specifically designated. Also the notification showed up again this morning after I had charged to 90% over night, "supremely useless" indeed.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I want a way to toggle this feature off completely.

 

[SoTX_WestTX]

... "supremely useless" indeed.

I don't know, the greyed out driver profile icon I have now would take the top spot on my list (above the plain white backup lines). :smile: Am I missing how to use this or is it the digital equivalent of dummy buttons on cars when you don't get the features that correspond to that space?

 

[youlikeadajuice]

I don't know, the greyed out driver profile icon I have now would take the top spot on my list (above the plain white backup lines). Am I missing how to use this or is it the digital equivalent of dummy buttons on cars when you don't get the features that correspond to that space?

That's "valet mode". You can turn it on while parked.

 

[SoTX_WestTX]

I read that in the notes and could have sworn I was parked while I was in my garage and trying to push it. I'll have to try it again today.

EDIT: Yep, totally works. Sorry White Back Up Lines, you've returned to the #1 spot on the list.

 

[jvonbokel]

V6.2 (2.4.124) arrived on my non-tech standard audio car today. I am VIN P039xx.

Features we get include:

Range Assurance, Valet Mode, Improved Search Results in Maps, and Faster Instrument Cluster Wakeup Time from Energy Saving Mode.

There was no mention of the new audio codec in the release notes, but music quality dramatically improved in my car.

Installed 6.2 on my non-tech last night. For completeness, here are a couple photos of the release notes.

 

[Hometheatremaven]

Range assurance on a non-tech car? Well yes, the release notes say we have it. But distances to chargers without turn-by-turn navigation are as the crow flies. The car has no idea of your route to the Chargers. Until Elon converts our non-techs into aero cars, IMHO range assurance on non-techs is no assurance.