Firmware 6.2 - Navigation for non tech package?

[eco5280]

There's more speculation on this forum that all over forums combined! Go to the Model 3 section for rampant abuse of logic and reason.

 

[Zarwin]

There's more speculation on this forum that all over forums combined! Go to the Model 3 section for rampant abuse of logic and reason.

Logic and reason take a back seat to the perpetual motion unicorn drive that will power all things and make cookies!

 

[SoTX_WestTX]

For what it's worth, here's the response I received today from Tesla...

Hello Mr. SoTx_WestTx,
Thank you for contacting Tesla Motors Technical Support. Because these new features are so new we still do not have a lot of specifics as to what items will work with and without navigation. Many functions of the new feature will be dependent on the navigation system in which case these features will not be available for cars without the navigation feature. There should however be some features that will still work as long as they are not dependent on navigation which should be available to you. Because we do not yet have all of the specifics I cannot give you specifics on what will be available, more information should become available when we get closer to the release of this software version.

 

[Zarwin]

For what it's worth, here's the response I received today from Tesla...

Hello Mr. SoTx_WestTx,
Thank you for contacting Tesla Motors Technical Support. Because these new features are so new we still do not have a lot of specifics as to what items will work with and without navigation. Many functions of the new feature will be dependent on the navigation system in which case these features will not be available for cars without the navigation feature. There should however be some features that will still work as long as they are not dependent on navigation which should be available to you. Because we do not yet have all of the specifics I cannot give you specifics on what will be available, more information should become available when we get closer to the release of this software version.

They don't know until we get closer to the release? Isn't that in less than a week? I'm guessing if that word salad is accurate that non-tech owners will get basically nothing other than the little side features of the 6.2 update (like back-up lines and defaulting to average on the energy chart).

 

[jvonbokel]

For what it's worth, here's the response I received today from Tesla...

I got the same response, and while it's more of a non-answer than an answer, I'm not optimistic about getting much of anything, let alone Nav, from the 6.2 update.

Edit: My guess is we'll get range assurance and valet mode, but nothing else.

 

[Zarwin]

I got the same response, and while it's more of a non-answer than an answer, I'm not optimistic about getting much of anything, let alone Nav, from the 6.2 update.

Edit: My guess is we'll get range assurance and valet mode, but nothing else.

Do we know exactly how range assurance works yet? If it is constantly calculating the route to the nearest charging location then it may be excluded due to the lack of intelligent routing. If so, non-tech would get valet mode? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mark Petersen]

my guess is that it will work the same way as it display distance to the nearest supercharger in the location menu (simple GPS straight line calculation)
and when the distance to the nearest charger become within f.x. 10% of the current max range it will warn you
as this is to be updated every 10 sec I do not believe that they want to make route calculations as that would cost to much cpu/energy
this will of cause mean that some places the warning may come on too late as you need to drive around a lake or a mountain to reach it

 

[Model 3]

as this is to be updated every 10 sec I do not believe that they want to make route calculations as that would cost to much cpu/energy

I don't think that the car will recalculate the route every 10 seconds. It will just check if the charger is down or occupied, and make a decision about IF it needs to recalculate a new route to an another charger.

 

[ecarfan]

as this is to be updated every 10 sec I do not believe that they want to make route calculations as that would cost to much cpu/energy

And your source for the "every 10 sec" figure is....?

 

[eco5280]

It's from the Model 3 thread where some bonehead said it was going to be skid-steer.

 

[MassModel3]

I believe they (Elon/Tesla) said the Supercharger status updates will come every 30 seconds while driving, so I certainly can't imagine the directional calculations coming any more frequent than that. Even then, if nothing's changed regarding SC status, I don't know why the directional information would even need to be recalculated. As for distance to SCs, if they use "as the crow flies" calculations then it's completely untrustworthy and the whole 'end to range anxiety' thing goes out the window, so I can't imagine they'd do that, either. If it's not trustworthy information for a driver (vs. a crow) then it serves no purpose at all.

 

[golfski]

I received an email, mass email, that indicated Range assurance and Trip Planning were going to be available to me and my Model S. I am guessing its just a mass email that went to all users, but they knew that I owned a model s and they know my configuration, so I am hoping its a good indication.

In terms of fairness, how is it any different for a new buyer who gets Navigation for free because its now part of the base model vs a user that gets a free software update to include navigation? To me it is no different. At some point there are two people that paid the same price and one got more features. Autopilot, Ionizer, Navigation, DRL, etc… Technology is always changing and evolving. I bought my model s at a time when the base model didn't include much. If i were to buy it today, at almost the same price, I would get DRL, Navigation, Parking Sensors, Lane Departure and Speed Limit warning. I am not angry that those people get all that and I didn't for the same price because I have been driving my car for almost a year and new exactly what I was getting. That doesn't mean that I don't want new features.

I think were Tesla will fail in this announcement is that they have indicated this is for the ENTIRE fleet. To me, that means me to. Not the entire fleet that has navigation enabled.

 

[MassModel3]

I think were Tesla will fail in this announcement is that they have indicated this is for the ENTIRE fleet. To me, that means me to. Not the entire fleet that has navigation enabled.

I disagree... [with this one statement] The tweet said that range anxiety would be resolved for the entire fleet of Model S's. The range assurance and trip planning are what takes care of that, neither of which includes turn-by-turn. That's a bonus that the Nav owners get, but it in no way means we non-nav users aren't getting those two features. They're just less integrated into the car without the Nav.

 

[FredTMC]

I received an email, mass email, that indicated Range assurance and Trip Planning were going to be available to me and my Model S. I am guessing its just a mass email that went to all users, but they knew that I owned a model s and they know my configuration, so I am hoping its a good indication.

In terms of fairness, how is it any different for a new buyer who gets Navigation for free because its now part of the base model vs a user that gets a free software update to include navigation? To me it is no different. At some point there are two people that paid the same price and one got more features. Autopilot, Ionizer, Navigation, DRL, etc… Technology is always changing and evolving. I bought my model s at a time when the base model didn't include much. If i were to buy it today, at almost the same price, I would get DRL, Navigation, Parking Sensors, Lane Departure and Speed Limit warning. I am not angry that those people get all that and I didn't for the same price because I have been driving my car for almost a year and new exactly what I was getting. That doesn't mean that I don't want new features.

I think were Tesla will fail in this announcement is that they have indicated this is for the ENTIRE fleet. To me, that means me to. Not the entire fleet that has navigation enabled.

Yep. Ditto for me. I have the same impression.

 

[NigelM]

I disagree... [with this one statement] The tweet said that range anxiety would be resolved for the entire fleet of Model S's. The range assurance and trip planning are what takes care of that, neither of which includes turn-by-turn. That's a bonus that the Nav owners get, but it in no way means we non-nav users aren't getting those two features. They're just less integrated into the car without the Nav.

I think this will be more or less the case; Trip Planner and Trip Overview won't be available if you don't have Navigation enabled on your car. To what extent the Navigation can be post-purchase activated, I don't know.

 

[Alysashley79]

Well, factory Navigation systems typically add $1,500-2,500 to a vehicle, so when I shelled out $4k for the tech package that was a huge consideration for me. I wouldn't have spent $4k to get a power liftgate, DRL, and automatic handles. If (and it's a big if, I think others are correct that non-tech will get a static map showing the route but not anything like navigation) people that didn't buy nav basically got nav for free, I think I'd consider that an affront to what I paid. You're entitled to your opinion, but careful when telling others how to think or feel.

i didn't tell anyone how to feel...I was simply making a statement based on 3 pages of opinions made by those with tech. I could argue this..I paid $3750 for tech when I got my car...you only paid a few hundred $ more and got autopilot...like I said originally there is a lot more to the tech pkg than NAV. This is tesla..everything about this car is overpriced!

MY opinion is that with these cars being like a gigantic iPhone that basically changes in a heartbeat with newer technology coming out that many people with newer cars don't see vs my 16 month old car (which I LOVE btw) my main console is older and isn't as crystal clear because of the resolution of the cars being delivered today etc.

someone else posted sited that if you ordered a new car today that it would come standard with NAV this is no different than when you bought your car. The price of tech is still the same and NAV isn't included in the tech price.

 

[golfski]

I disagree... [with this one statement] The tweet said that range anxiety would be resolved for the entire fleet of Model S's. The range assurance and trip planning are what takes care of that, neither of which includes turn-by-turn. That's a bonus that the Nav owners get, but it in no way means we non-nav users aren't getting those two features. They're just less integrated into the car without the Nav.

But the Trip Planner and Range Assurance only work if they know the destination and the route you are trying to take, correct? The current Maps application only gives you distance based on how the crow flies. I am not saying that I expect to get turn-by-turn instructions read to me, the headsup display or anything like that. But I do think for those two features to work they need to know the route you are taking (traffic, speed, elevation, etc..) otherwise they are useless at predicting accurately if you will get to the destination with enough charge.

 

[FredTMC]

But the Trip Planner and Range Assurance only work if they know the destination and the route you are trying to take, correct? The current Maps application only gives you distance based on how the crow flies. I am not saying that I expect to get turn-by-turn instructions read to me, the headsup display or anything like that. But I do think for those two features to work they need to know the route you are taking (traffic, speed, elevation, etc..) otherwise they are useless at predicting accurately if you will get to the destination with enough charge.

yep. That's the rub... Route planning.

Since all new cars have Nav, I wonder what if any hardware is different to provide Nav routing compared to existing cars without Nav

 

[golfski]

yep. That's the rub... Route planning.

Since all new cars have Nav, I wonder what if any hardware is different to provide Nav routing compared to existing cars without Nav

I think non-tech cars have to have capability in the Google Maps display and don't understand why it would be a hardware limitation for that aspect. For the Navigon to work in the heads-up display, that I believe is because there is no storage/RAM in the center screen for that data to reside (offline) - which is why the upgrade to Nav requires a whole new center screen. I have to think if the Maps application can render traffic and pins and do business searches in the current non-tech cars, it should be able to get a route from the server (Google Maps or Tesla) to then render that route on the screen. I don't need turn by turn directions read to me, but it would be nice to have a list of directions - similar to doing a route plan on maps.google.com and it lists the directions step by step.

I have sent a note to the company's email but haven't gotten any answer back.

 

[paco3791]

I think non-tech cars have to have capability in the Google Maps display and don't understand why it would be a hardware limitation for that aspect. For the Navigon to work in the heads-up display, that I believe is because there is no storage/RAM in the center screen for that data to reside (offline) - which is why the upgrade to Nav requires a whole new center screen. I have to think if the Maps application can render traffic and pins and do business searches in the current non-tech cars, it should be able to get a route from the server (Google Maps or Tesla) to then render that route on the screen. I don't need turn by turn directions read to me, but it would be nice to have a list of directions - similar to doing a route plan on maps.google.com and it lists the directions step by step.

I have sent a note to the company's email but haven't gotten any answer back.

+1 this is my hope as well. we will have to wait and see about reality.