Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion

[AmpedRealtor]

I have no problem with the overall look of the new UI. But I'm completely baffled as to why a car icon and the odometer take precedent over a range display. This is still an EV, afterall, and range is the number one question that is on our minds. Accordingly, the range display needs to be front and center.

If someone really wants to see brake light feedback on the dash then they should be willing to pull up the car status app on the side. There is no reason to make this the default for everyone.

I can't even tell when that emoji car's brake lights are on anyway. My car is MC Red and the two reds completely blend. I have to squint and peer into the instrument cluster to be able to notice the 1-pixel thick brake light coming on. This is a step backward, in my opinion, and is a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Max*]

I can't even tell when that emoji car's brake lights are on anyway. My car is MC Red and the two reds completely blend. I have to squint and peer into the instrument cluster to be able to notice the 1-pixel thick brake light coming on. This is a step backward, in my opinion, and is a solution looking for a problem.

I have to agree here. My car is the new blue, and even then it's hard to differentiate if they're on or off from a quick glance. If it's more than a quick glance, I can easily tell.

 

[perkiset]

I think you go to far in your statement that "range is the number one question that is on OUR minds." You cannot speak for all Model S drivers. Speaking for myself, I only think about range if I am planning on driving over 200 miles. More than 95% of the time my Model S trips are less than 200 miles and I really don't think about range.
I am fine with the range indicator being moved to the lower left of the driver's display.

Well said. In fact, when I am worried about (or even interested in) range I put the full energy app on low end of the 17" and toggle between mile-averages and usage trajectory to make sure that I've got myself sorted out. I don't really rely on the rated range on the speedo at all because it's overly optimistic.

 

[SteveS0353]

I can't even tell when that emoji car's brake lights are on anyway. My car is MC Red and the two reds completely blend. I have to squint and peer into the instrument cluster to be able to notice the 1-pixel thick brake light coming on. This is a step backward, in my opinion, and is a solution looking for a problem.

I have to agree here. My car is the new blue, and even then it's hard to differentiate if they're on or off from a quick glance. If it's more than a quick glance, I can easily tell.

With my dark blue car, I had a hard time seeing the brake lights on the model car in the center of the speedometer / power meter at night until I realized that the model car is detailed enough that the brake light strip above the rear window is modeled, and does light up when the brake lights are on.

My car is in for service today for a hardware issue, and I have a P85D loaner with all of the AP goodies including the new V7.0 firmware. I used autosteer on the freeway coming home from dropping off my "classic" at the service center. All at once, both terrifying and amazing!

I like the GUI less on the AP car than my "classic" P85+ since the speedometer / power meter is not front and center on the driver's dashboard. The missing information is significant, but there is a bunch of new information (lane markers, cars in front and to the sides, blind spot coverage, speed limit signs, ...).

I'm not all that upset about the GUI changes in the "classic"; I'm sure I'll adapt, and I suppose it was inevitable, but I'm also feeling a bit left behind with this update :frown:.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I suppose it was inevitable, but I'm also feeling a bit left behind with this update :frown:.

^^ this

 

[huntjo]

I don't think they really intend the little toy car to have a "purpose" as some of you are trying to attribute it. Showing the brake lights is just an Easter egg. The location of the car there is just so there is continuity between autopilot mode and manual. For classic cars we just get the same UI for continuity across the fleet. Not because it's going to do something new for you

 

[smac]

If they do that, they miss a lot of good data. Personally I love that Tesla doesn't feel the need to nanny its customers.

Really?! so if you were responding EMS scraping the remains of the passengers off the road from a head on caused by AP that would be OK ?

What would you say to the family, "I'm sorry your husband is dead, but on the plus side we got some good data".


Get it working in the low risk cases first and broaden the reach of the system as you gain knowledge. It's a safety critical system at the end of the day.

 

[Max*]

It's a safety critical system at the end of the day.

It's not. It's a convenience feature.

 

[RDoc]

I was surprised they didn't geo-fence roads that AP could be used on, to go at least someway to making it only usable as intended, and remove any training/knowledge requirement from the end user.

Agreed, the current autopilot has the very nasty characteristic on secondary roads that it works perfectly until you come up to an intersection, at which point it completely fails and will run into phone poles, stone walls, off the road, etc.

 

[smac]

It's not. It's a convenience feature.

When used appropriately.

 

[Max*]

Agreed, the current autopilot has the very nasty characteristic on secondary roads that it works perfectly until you come up to an intersection, at which point it completely fails and will run into phone poles, stone walls, off the road, etc.

Especially if the intersection curves.

- - - Updated - - -

When used appropriately.

Maybe we're having a semantics issue. AP is not a life-critical system. It's a convenience feature, used properly or not.

Now, if you're trying to say that this convenience feature can cause death if used improperly, then yes, I agree with that.

 

[RDoc]

Mine does NOT do this.

I seem to have a bug in my system. When I'm in autopilot on the highway, everything working great, and use the turn signal for changing lanes, I get a red warning to "take over control immediately, the car is departing the lane", or words to that effect.

Well, duh - it's departing the lane because the autopilot itself steered the car over to the next lane. This clears itself almost immediately with no intervention on my part and the lane change terminates properly but seems a bit sub-optimal.

My wife and I have been playing with this a bit more. Most of the time the car does not emit the warning, even when driven over the same stretch of highway, but we've both seen it occasionally. Neither of us can see anything different about when it emits the warning and not. In all cases, straight or nearly so highway, moderate traffic, good lane markers, no direct sun on the camera. I've deliberately driven into the sun and hit the directional and the car changed lanes with no drama.

 

[Dr. Pete]

Downloaded v 7.0 and now I can't even get the dashboard to work! I can't get any display on the left side of the dashboard. I held down the left scroll wheel and got two choices: a blank and a clock, but scrolling the scroll wheel did nothing. The left display remains blank.
I held down the right scroll wheel and got several choices, but again, scrolling did nothing, and the miles/energy display on the right dashboard display didn't move.
I rebooted the dashboard and repeated the above. No change.
All you dudes who just love V. 7.0, please tell me what I'm doing wrong!

By the way: P85D, P67502, built in last week of December, 2014, so should have all the hardware.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Really?! so if you were responding EMS scraping the remains of the passengers off the road from a head on caused by AP that would be OK ?

What would you say to the family, "I'm sorry your husband is dead, but on the plus side we got some good data".


Get it working in the low risk cases first and broaden the reach of the system as you gain knowledge. It's a safety critical system at the end of the day.

Not gonna bite.

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Agreed, the current autopilot has the very nasty characteristic on secondary roads that it works perfectly until you come up to an intersection, at which point it completely fails and will run into phone poles, stone walls, off the road, etc.

Imagine that, it doesn't work well yet in places they TOLD YOU NOT TO USE IT. I don't get it, do we need geofences and nanny features to protect normal cars from say, being driven on shoulders or sidewalks? If you violate the suggested operating parameters of a system, that's on you kids.

 

[smac]

Especially if the intersection curves.

- - - Updated - - -



Maybe we're having a semantics issue. AP is not a life-critical system. It's a convenience feature, used properly or not.

Now, if you're trying to say that this convenience feature can cause death if used improperly, then yes, I agree with that.

Maybe we're having a semantics issue. AP is not a life-critical system. It's a convenience feature, used properly or not.

Now, if you're trying to say that this convenience feature can cause death if used improperly, then yes, I agree with that.

Indeed that is what I'm saying. Tesla (IMHO) should use all means necessary to eliminate any possibility of improper use being the case and causing death or injury to other road users (even though legally the driver is technically still in control). Geo-fencing is an obvious answer to prevent improper use. I'm quite staggered seeing that clip that people actually think it is OK on the basis of data gathering to use it outside it's design intent.

Let's not forget we are < 1 day into wide scale release, I hope we don't see video of any more serious incidents.

It hasn't been rolled out to Europe where BMW et al. do have such GPS safety mechanisms built into the cars with similar functionality (is this the regulatory hurdle? )

If getting data is the goal (which I have no problem with), then get paid and commercially insured drivers that realise the limitations/implications of the system driving around to gather it, not Joe Public that has just seen a yellow alarm clock on the screen, and thought they fancied themselves as test pilots.

 

[brooklynrab]

Like Ampdrealtor and other "classic", pre-autopilot MS owners, I feel the new interface represents a step backwards in ease of use and aesthetics, while offering no positive utility to my Tesla experience, and treats us sub-50K vin owners as an after-thought (I think Elon as much as acknowledged this when he promised that 7.1 would address the concerns of "classic" owners). Therefore, I will not be updating to 7.0, and hopefully 7.1 is more worthwhile. 7.0 is Windows 8 for me, all the way.
If I had an autopilot-equipped MS, the cost-benefit of an upgrade would undoubtably be reversed and I would likely feel differently, so congrats to all you post 50K vin MS owners. No reason to call each other names.

 

[Max*]

Indeed that is what I'm saying. Tesla (IMHO) should use all means necessary to eliminate any possibility of improper use being the case and causing death or injury to other road users (even though legally the driver is technically still in control). Geo-fencing is an obvious answer to prevent improper use. I'm quite staggered seeing that clip that people actually think it is OK on the basis of data gathering to use it outside it's design intent.

Let's not forget we are < 1 day into wide scale release, I hope we don't see video of any more serious incidents.

It hasn't been rolled out to Europe where BMW et al. do have such GPS safety mechanisms built into the cars with similar functionality (is this the regulatory hurdle? )

If getting data is the goal (which I have no problem with), then get paid and commercially insured drivers that realise the limitations/implications of the system driving around to gather it, not Joe Public that has just seen a yellow alarm clock on the screen, and thought they fancied themselves as test pilots.

If you have that mindset
-The car should be limited to 85mph. Because obviously there are no speed limits above 85mph. And ideally, if they got the speed reading thing 100% accurately, the car should be limited to the speed limit. Not 1mph/kph higher than that.
-The car should not let you drive without taking a breathalyzer test
-The car should not let you drive without being buckled in, all seats
-The car should not let you accelerate more than 80kw, anything higher is unsafe
-The car should lock the nav while driving
-The car should turn off the 17" display completely, don't want you to get distracted.
etc.

No, we don't live in a nanny-state (well we kinda do, but that's not the point here). And until Level 4 autonomous comes out, I want to be able to control what/where/when the Tesla does.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Indeed that is what I'm saying. Tesla (IMHO) should use all means necessary to eliminate any possibility of improper use being the case and causing death or injury to other road users (even though legally the driver is technically still in control). Geo-fencing is an obvious answer to prevent improper use. I'm quite staggered seeing that clip that people actually think it is OK on the basis of data gathering to use it outside it's design intent.

Let's not forget we are < 1 day into wide scale release, I hope we don't see video of any more serious incidents.

It hasn't been rolled out to Europe where BMW et al. do have such GPS safety mechanisms built into the cars with similar functionality (is this the regulatory hurdle? )

If getting data is the goal (which I have no problem with), then get paid and commercially insured drivers that realise the limitations/implications of the system driving around to gather it, not Joe Public that has just seen a yellow alarm clock on the screen, and thought they fancied themselves as test pilots.

Without engaging the liability issue, they can gather plenty of data with AP disabled. They can run the AP in the background and compare what the driver and algorithm would do.

 

[smac]

Not gonna bite.
Imagine that, it doesn't work well yet in places they TOLD YOU NOT TO USE IT. I don't get it, do we need geofences and nanny features to protect normal cars from say, being driven on shoulders or sidewalks? If you violate the suggested operating parameters of a system, that's on you kids.

My table saw has warnings it might cut off my fingers, yet it still it has a guard.


Your argument for non-nannying should equally apply there no?

Quite simply workplace injuries/deaths are a fraction of what they were before health and safety legislation kicked in to prevent inadvertent operator error. That too many called nannying, but the effects have been remarkable.

 

[Max*]

My table saw has warnings it might cut off my fingers, yet it still it has a guard.

You can take the guard off. If Tesla implements a geo-fence, I can't turn it off. Big difference.

Now if you want an "advanced user" (some people here would call it "idiot mode"), where I can bypass the geofence, then by all means.