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Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion

hissymissy

Member
Aug 25, 2015
8
0
CA
Tegra processors that Tesla uses, are great at very fast calculations, but are terrible at handling large complex images in memory.
This is why you see the round 6.2 speedo is so responsive, while the maps are jerky. Even the navigon map on the left is jerky, and thats a really small bitmap.

From what it looks like, Tesla has gone to great lengths to eliminate bitmaps, and replace them with vector graphics.
If that makes the display near real time reactive, and extremely dynamic, I think thats a big win.

Think of it this way, using a mouse on a computer feels very natural. But even a 10ms delay (typical to high latency remote sessions), say on citrix or rdp etc. causes the user to press the keys much more deliberately and firmly. Studies have shown that even a 10ms delay can increase muscle fatigue in your fingers by 400%. Not to mention the additional processing your brain has to account for. This is why speech recognition is far away from replacing a keyboard and mouse, since there is the 'computer think time' involved. It is the difference between 'moving the mouse' versus 'asking the computer to move the mouse for you'.

We should not underestimate the importance of a very dynamic and responsive UI.
And these static pictures do not convey that at all - so - for that reason alone we should probably reserve our judgement and trust Tesla to do the right thing.
 

OddB

Member
Feb 17, 2014
94
3
Norway
Let's see. Nice. Core functionality. Nope, not the same thing. I don't mind looking over to the center console to see the time like every other car I've ever had.
To get rid of the four small digits in the lower right corner must be purely a design decition . There is space enough. .. Even for a two digit termometer on the left side.
 

Footbag

Member
Jun 29, 2013
527
152
Edmonton, Canada
Additionally, the one on the bottom provides no indication that the doors are locked. It's already been said in a couple threads that people worry about random strangers trying to open their doors when the car stops or you are first getting in (all 4 doors unlock instead of just driver door). This will probably add to their fears if this is the way 7.0 looks when released.

The lock icon has moved to the 17" screen (top left), and apparently gains the ability to now lock/unlock the doors with a single click. Nice little improvement IMHO.
 

alin3

Member
Apr 27, 2015
52
4
Chicago, IL
First off, I'm a new Tesla owner. So, forgive my noobiness. But, I'm kind of amazed at some of the reactions in this thread I've been following keenly, not because of concerns over the UI design, but, rather, eagerness for further implementation of Autopilot.

But, as someone who for 30 years has driven cars with a FIXED design dashboard and perfectly content with a tachometer, speedometer, and oil temp, it's amazing to see folks so worked up over the UI that they're willing to trade in their Model S for a, for instance, BMW which will likely have a completely static dashboard!

Honestly, the upgradable UI in a Tesla is icing on the cake for me...the core features that appeal to me are the all electric "fuel," driving characteristics, safety, etc.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,092
1,294
So Cal
Guys, this is the first update that I can recall where a large number of owners have expressed this much concern. Ok, well, 5.8 where they took away auto-lowering, but it's back. It ought to mean something to Tesla. Our opinions are not just "noise." And by the way, way the hell is that supposed to mean? Frankly, it sounds belittling, condescending, and childish to call other peoples opinions "noise."

You have an odd definition of judgment.
 
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JST

Active Member
May 23, 2013
1,560
228
Let's see. Nice. Core functionality. Nope, not the same thing. I don't mind looking over to the center console to see the time like every other car I've ever had.


We can debate about what constitutes "core" functionality, but an animated picture of the car you're driving clearly isn't on that list. Getting rid of time and temp for that is just silly.
 

perkiset

... this one goes to 11
Jan 7, 2014
238
0
Phoenix, AZ
First off, I'm a new Tesla owner. So, forgive my noobiness. But, I'm kind of amazed at some of the reactions in this thread I've been following keenly, not because of concerns over the UI design, but, rather, eagerness for further implementation of Autopilot.

But, as someone who for 30 years has driven cars with a FIXED design dashboard and perfectly content with a tachometer, speedometer, and oil temp, it's amazing to see folks so worked up over the UI that they're willing to trade in their Model S for a, for instance, BMW which will likely have a completely static dashboard!

Honestly, the upgradable UI in a Tesla is icing on the cake for me...the core features that appeal to me are the all electric "fuel," driving characteristics, safety, etc.
That particular post is laughable to me. The imagery in the dashboard IC is enough to make you get rid of a Tesla? NEVER should have purchased one then.

Amazes me the number of graphics, UI and usability experts on this board. Tesla's got a lot of people on this task and they'll do a fine job - much better than the art-by-committee and sour grapes folks that seem to be proliferating here. Agree with several posters that have mentioned that no one here actually has 7, just images of something we think might be a gold master candidate.
 

FlasherZ

Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv
Jun 21, 2012
7,028
1,025
That particular post is laughable to me. The imagery in the dashboard IC is enough to make you get rid of a Tesla? NEVER should have purchased one then.

The way I read alin3's comment is that he/she is laughing at the same thing and did not say he/she would trade in the Model S.

Agree with several posters that have mentioned that no one here actually has 7, just images of something we think might be a gold master candidate.

That may not be true - some members may have it, but those who have version 7 are probably bound by NDA and unable to talk about it.
 

SomeJoe7777

Marginally-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
2,197
5,793
Houston, TX
I think Tesla knows a lot more about this than you do.
Why people are taking unofficial images that have been leaked, with unknown capabilities and layout is beyond me.
I'm amazed people that are so quick to leaping to conclusions are early adopters of new technology.

I certainly hope that Tesla knows a lot more about user interface and the process of getting valuable information to the driver than I do. But these screenshots cast a lot of doubt on that as far as I'm concerned.

Again, I will definitely reserve final judgment until I drive a vehicle with the 7.0 general release to see what it's really like. But as of now, I'm quite alarmed.

- - - Updated - - -

Amazes me the number of graphics, UI and usability experts on this board.

But isn't that representative of the grossness of the errors here? I don't think anyone has to be an expert to see that a cartoon graphic car is pretty useless as far as driver information, or that the migration of the power meter at best uses up previously available customizable screen real estate. And if we, who are non-experts, can see this, then how did Tesla's "experts" come up with it?
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
But isn't that representative of the grossness of the errors here? I don't think anyone has to be an expert to see that a cartoon graphic car is pretty useless as far as driver information, or that the migration of the power meter at best uses up previously available customizable screen real estate. And if we, who are non-experts, can see this, then how did Tesla's "experts" come up with it?

You're looking at it all wrong. There is a small group of very vocal owners who don't like the cartoon car, who don't like the speedometer, who don't like energy graph, who don't like the power meter, etc.

And then there are the rest of us who don't really care.

And then there's probably a subset of people who like / don't mind the cartoon car
 

ohmman

Plaid-ish Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,201
18,736
North Bay, CA
But isn't that representative of the grossness of the errors here? I don't think anyone has to be an expert to see that a cartoon graphic car is pretty useless as far as driver information, or that the migration of the power meter at best uses up previously available customizable screen real estate. And if we, who are non-experts, can see this, then how did Tesla's "experts" come up with it?

Perhaps it's something like the famous Steve Jobs quote (often paraphrased):
"...for something this complicated, it's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
 

Zythryn

Model Y custom Warming Stripes wrap.
Mar 18, 2009
2,182
1,278
Minnesota
...

But isn't that representative of the grossness of the errors here? I don't think anyone has to be an expert to see that a cartoon graphic car is pretty useless as far as driver information, or that the migration of the power meter at best uses up previously available customizable screen real estate. And if we, who are non-experts, can see this, then how did Tesla's "experts" come up with it?

No, it is representative to the number of people jumping to conclusions based on a couple of static screenshots of firmware in the beta process. With no clue about what settings, screens, or packaging of information.
 

Cyclone

Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Jan 12, 2015
5,058
1,153
Charlotte, NC
To help balance some points, personally I like the "toy car" representation with the other toy cars around me when AP is in primary control. This provides the opportunity to judge what AP is "seeing" and potentially override decisions.
 

anxman

Member
Dec 21, 2014
362
59
san francisco, ca
You're looking at it all wrong. There is a small group of very vocal owners who don't like the cartoon car, who don't like the speedometer, who don't like energy graph, who don't like the power meter, etc.

And then there are the rest of us who don't really care.

And then there's probably a subset of people who like / don't mind the cartoon car

This nails it on the head. I find the reaction on this thread to the updated UI to be laughable.

I trust the decisions that Tesla is making with respect to this UI. My understanding is that the car in the middle is an important way of giving feedback of the automobile beyond what is currently available. I'm very much looking forward to the UI and I think it's awesome.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,097
Phoenix, AZ
I'm going to point out again, since my other post probably got buried, that I'm pretty sure the UI overhaul is more of a performance improvement requirement vs a visual overhaul. The removal of all of the unnecessary brushed metal texturing probably drops CPU/GPU usage down significantly, which would improve performance significantly. The car is doing a lot more behind the scenes these days. Not just autopilot cars. I'm betting the new "range assurance" stuff is eating up quite a bit of background CPU time, along with the added overhead of everything the nav system does for trips now with the superchargers and supposedly polling them frequently. I've noticed a significant decrease in responsiveness of both the 17" and the IC since 6.x. The scroll wheel menus are so laggy nowadays it's ridiculous, and many touch responses on the 17" are delayed by at least 750ms or more.

Basically I believe the UI overhaul was to soften the load on the processors. The textured old look was probably fine when the IC was lower resolution and basically did nothing special and the 17" just had some basic functionality. But they've added so much they're going to have to cut back somewhere eventually to preserve responsiveness.

Most of the screen candy is bitmaps anyway. The GPU still has to push around the same number of pixels whether those pixels represent black, white, or something textured. It's still so many bits per pixel, and the GPU can move so many pixels per second. I seriously doubt any of the textures are requiring real-time rendering by a 3D engine or anything like that. The new UI has shed some alpha transparencies/shadows, but doubt that would have a measurable impact on performance.

The most likely reason for the UI change, in my opinion, is to stay on trend.
 

FlasherZ

Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv
Jun 21, 2012
7,028
1,025
But isn't that representative of the grossness of the errors here? I don't think anyone has to be an expert to see that a cartoon graphic car is pretty useless as far as driver information, or that the migration of the power meter at best uses up previously available customizable screen real estate. And if we, who are non-experts, can see this, then how did Tesla's "experts" come up with it?

It was found valuable by other companies too:
digidash_chryslertowncountry2.jpg


EDIT: Holy crap, just realized someone managed to squeeze 227k miles out of a 1980's Chrysler product. Incredible.

For what it's worth, there are a whole host of drivers who rarely look at the energy meter. Tesla is now giving the option to display it, or not display it.
 
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AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,097
Phoenix, AZ
I was told by a tech today that leaving a bunch of miles on your resettable trip meter slows down the processor. I know this sounds like really dumb programming, but apparently the trips are calculated by adding ALL of your individual trips. They are recommending until this software is fixed that you leave no more than 2000 miles on trip A or B.

Don't shoot the messenger! I know that everyone has kept one original to view lifetime wh/ mile.

I have over 30,000 miles on Trip B and have no UI slowdown. My P85 is from 2013. No Autopilot hardware or parking sensors.
 

FlasherZ

Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv
Jun 21, 2012
7,028
1,025
You're looking at it all wrong. There is a small group of very vocal owners who don't like the cartoon car, who don't like the speedometer, who don't like energy graph, who don't like the power meter, etc.

And then there are the rest of us who don't really care.

And then there's probably a subset of people who like / don't mind the cartoon car

To add to this point (with which I agree), I would suggest that you need to spend a few hundred miles with the interface before you can make that call, too.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
I was told by a tech today that leaving a bunch of miles on your resettable trip meter slows down the processor. I know this sounds like really dumb programming, but apparently the trips are calculated by adding ALL of your individual trips. They are recommending until this software is fixed that you leave no more than 2000 miles on trip A or B.

Don't shoot the messenger! I know that everyone has kept one original to view lifetime wh/ mile.

I just saw this (because someone quoted it 10 pages later, heh). The bolded makes no sense. They should not be storing all that useless information to get the final average.
 

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