Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Firmware 7.0

jgs

Active Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,581
952
Ann Arbor, Michigan
It was a legit question, I didn't berate anyone, no need to get snarky.

Huh, OK, I read your comment as snark but I accept you didn't mean it this way. I'm happy to delete my snarky reply if you like. In any case, the clothing analogy, minus snark, is the answer to your question: different people are proportioned differently and have different positions in which they are comfortable. At least one other poster specifically explained that his trunk is a little longer than the average and his arms and legs a little shorter, for example.
 

Krugerrand

Enough of the 🐩, back to 🐈‍⬛
Jul 13, 2012
11,604
66,432
Tesla friendly place
I think the problem is more that Tesla marketing is deluded. They think they can sell cars like iPhones... People will upgrade every 1 to 3 years.

Umm...isn't that exactly what a lot of people did/are doing; P85 to P85+ to AP to P85D to Ludicrous. I'd say Tesla has the data that proves people are ungrading their cars like iPhones. If that's not you, don't take it personal and delete the e-mail. :smile:
 

jgs

Active Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,581
952
Ann Arbor, Michigan
There do seem to be some real improvements to the nav system.

It's still pretty weak compared to GMaps, though. In particular, when you go off-route, better nav systems appear to compute a new optimal route. Some even appear to take the hint that maybe there's a reason you went off-route, and avoid the immediate path you were on if they can. (I don't know for a fact that this is deliberate behavior, but it's what I've observed.) The Tesla nav system however, including with the recent update, spends a lot of time trying to patch you back on to the route you were previously on, even if doing so would require silly backtracking compared to picking an alternate route that is equally good.

I don't know if Tesla is cheaping out on their nav vendor, or if they're rolling it in-house and just don't have the resources to do a first-class job (of course they don't, if that's the case), or if there just aren't any first-class vendors that license their nav systems, but I do wish they'd find a way to do a good job with nav. Yeah, you can work around it using your phone or whatever, but it's just embarrassing.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
Huh, OK, I read your comment as snark but I accept you didn't mean it this way. I'm happy to delete my snarky reply if you like. In any case, the clothing analogy, minus snark, is the answer to your question: different people are proportioned differently and have different positions in which they are comfortable. At least one other poster specifically explained that his trunk is a little longer than the average and his arms and legs a little shorter, for example.

My perspective: I can understand it being harder to see the full IC if you sit further away, as the steering wheel may block some of it. I sit farther away, I see corner-to-corner. If I were to move closer, I'd expect to be able to see even more (less chance of the steering wheel blocking it). I can understand adjusting the wheel to see the top better or the bottom better, but I still don't understand how when you adjust it you can block any of the IC.

No need to delete it, it's fine. I'll just drop the question.
 

Cyclone

Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Jan 12, 2015
5,058
1,153
Charlotte, NC
Huh, OK, I read your comment as snark but I accept you didn't mean it this way. I'm happy to delete my snarky reply if you like. In any case, the clothing analogy, minus snark, is the answer to your question: different people are proportioned differently and have different positions in which they are comfortable. At least one other poster specifically explained that his trunk is a little longer than the average and his arms and legs a little shorter, for example.

Additionally, since the seat belt cannot be height adjusted, some may be adjusting their seats to compensate so the seat belt doesn't straddle their neck.

This would be he case if my mother ever drove my car. She would have to raise the seat significantly and sit more "straight up". She would then have to raise the steering wheel significantly in order to see the AP "speedo", which means her arms are now lifted rather high.
 

LetsGoFast

Active Member
Oct 13, 2014
1,329
101
Virginia
Umm...isn't that exactly what a lot of people did/are doing; P85 to P85+ to AP to P85D to Ludicrous. I'd say Tesla has the data that proves people are ungrading their cars like iPhones. If that's not you, don't take it personal and delete the e-mail. :smile:

Yeah, if they get the battery capacity up to 110-120 kWh, I'd upgrade/replace. I'd consider it for significantly faster or better sensor suites depending on what you got. I typically replace my primary car every 3 years, but a compelling story might push me sooner.
 

jgs

Active Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,581
952
Ann Arbor, Michigan
I still don't understand how when you adjust it you can block any of the IC.

Try adjusting it next time you're in your car. If you can't find a position where it blocks some of the IC I'll eat my hat. :) I don't claim it will be a comfortable position, just some position.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2015
10,253
9,995
Colorado
"YOUR AUTOPILOT HAS ARRIVED" the three emails from Tesla say.

Wow, they really do not know how to communicate, do they. Nor, apparently, how to personalize emails based on customer's car. You know, owners who DON'T OWN autopilot hardware or parking sensors or any of that. Sure would be nice if Tesla could not rub it in. They even try to get you to trade in your apparently now crappy pre-autopilot Model S so you can "arrive" too.

Tesla's communications are clueless.

I got the email as well and noticed it mentioned "cameras". Does autopilot now use the rear camera as well or is that another hint at upcoming stereoscopic cameras? :cool:

...use its unique combination of cameras, radar, ultrasonic sensors, and data to steer down the highway, change lanes, and adjust speed in response to traffic
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
Try adjusting it next time you're in your car. If you can't find a position where it blocks some of the IC I'll eat my hat. :) I don't claim it will be a comfortable position, just some position.

You know what? You're right. I can force it to block some of the IC. I guess I was thinking there's always a position in which you can see the full IC corner-to-corner, but that may not be the most comfortable driving position for a particular person, and to be more comfortable, they prefer to block a corner of the IC.

- - - Updated - - -

I got the email as well and noticed it mentioned "cameras". Does autopilot now use the rear camera as well or is that another hint at upcoming stereoscopic cameras? :cool:

I've been commenting left and right that the Model X on the TM website has stereoscopic cameras. I was corrected that they're too close, and the founders cars only have 1, in addition the Model X should have the same sensors as the Model S.
 

Soolim

Member
Jun 11, 2015
852
42
Vancouver, BC, Canada
I get it, but if I'm holding the stalk in position long enough to get halfway into the new lane, that's not an accidental touch. And besides, the car knows the lane is clear to merge, so, accidental or not, continuing the merge at that point is less dangerous than suddenly veering back.
What if you just hold the stalk until the lane change is complete, i.e when the auto-steer has locked into the new lane (which is shown by solid blue lines)? A few more seconds perhaps?
 

Cyclone

Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Jan 12, 2015
5,058
1,153
Charlotte, NC
What if you just hold the stalk until the lane change is complete, i.e when the auto-steer has locked into the new lane (which is shown by solid blue lines)? A few more seconds perhaps?

I think part of it is him being in Vegas. He says...
What we have here in Vegas are reflectors. Raised, rounded reflectors that we call turtles. A series of 4 of them takes the place of a single stripe, so the lane marking is a repeating series of 4 turtles, with about the same length and spacing as painted stripes.

In daylight the car flat out refuses to recognize the lanes at all. It wouldn't even go into autosteer on a well-marked freeway!

At night it's even worse, because the car sort of recognizes the reflectors, but it constantly drifts around in the lane as it adjusts where it thinks it should be. Twice the side impact warning went off due to excessive drift, and I'm not sure it would have stayed in the lane at all if I hadn't grabbed the wheel. I'm lucky I didn't get pulled over for a field sobriety test.

Sounds more like Coiled is letting go of the turn stalk when the car is physically halfway to the next lane, but logically, the car doesn't think so yet.
 

alin3

Member
Apr 27, 2015
52
4
Chicago, IL
My quick thoughts:

1. I was very impressed with AP on my commute on the Stevenson expressway in Chicago. AP/TACC is a Godsend in traffic. The lane lines are pretty faded in spots, but AP was rock solid. I was intrigued that on the dash the car cartoon image adjusts it's position within the lane markers as the car in front of me was drifting in-between the lane lines.

2. Finally...real time TPMS pressures

3. I like the new flat design and feel that I'm getting all the important info I really need with the dash widgets and central display. Scrolling through menus was much quicker.
 

MrClown

Autosteer Beta Tester
Oct 3, 2014
222
46
Denver
My son apparently enjoys spotting the difference between pictures. I had taken a pic of the 17" before the update so he was having fun comparing and telling me everything he noticed. He pointed out that the Calendar app icon at the top now has the day on it. I wasn't completely sure yesterday (15 could have been a coincidence) but today it does in fact have a 16 on it. For anyone who misses the date on the IC, you can at least find part of it on the 17" now. You still don't get the day of the week though and they expect you to already know the current month/year.
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,442
Ithaca, NY
My son apparently enjoys spotting the difference between pictures. I had taken a pic of the 17" before the update so he was having fun comparing and telling me everything he noticed. He pointed out that the Calendar app icon at the top now has the day on it. I wasn't completely sure yesterday (15 could have been a coincidence) but today it does in fact have a 16 on it. For anyone who misses the date on the IC, you can at least find part of it on the 17" now. You still don't get the day of the week though and they expect you to already know the current month/year.

That's not new.
 

linuxkidd

Member
Sep 17, 2015
60
32
Las Vegas
I'm jealous of the people who have had good AP experiences. Mine have been at least 50% terrible ... err, I mean exciting. Very exciting to me and everyone around me, in a "hope we're not going to crash" kind of way.

The lane markings on the highways around here are not bad at all. They're actually very obvious and visible to humans. But they are clearly not what the car is looking for. What the car is looking for is paint. Solid, painted white stripes.

What we have here in Vegas are reflectors. Raised, rounded reflectors that we call turtles. A series of 4 of them takes the place of a single stripe, so the lane marking is a repeating series of 4 turtles, with about the same length and spacing as painted stripes.

In daylight the car flat out refuses to recognize the lanes at all. It wouldn't even go into autosteer on a well-marked freeway!

At night it's even worse, because the car sort of recognizes the reflectors, but it constantly drifts around in the lane as it adjusts where it thinks it should be. Twice the side impact warning went off due to excessive drift, and I'm not sure it would have stayed in the lane at all if I hadn't grabbed the wheel. I'm lucky I didn't get pulled over for a field sobriety test.

Tesla, please come do some testing in Vegas! It's not that far to go, and you'll really like it here. For now, AP is not usable on the highways I normally drive (215 and 95).

I guess the problem is similar to this one in Hawaii. Maybe you could do some testing there too!
I had the same experience here in Vegas. The turtles are almost certainly the issue. I did find I could engage AP if I was in either the far right or left lanes since they had an adjacent painted line (on 215)... But it drifted a bit too much toward the other lane for my comfort (and that if the driver in said lane... I was quickly given a wide birth). Like your experience, AP would hunt quite a bit in the lane.

LK
 

BertL

Active Member
Aug 19, 2015
2,018
1,580
Carlsbad, CA
I don't understand why so many people need to adjust the steering wheel to see the speed or the drive indicators...?

I'm tall, sit almost all the way back (if anything I should see less than the people who are right next to the steering wheel), and I can see the FULL IC, corner to corner.

Back from my post #375 in this thread...
I do also have a problem with important things in the instrument panel being almost cutoff towards the top... I only had this issue with perhaps some warning icons in the old interface. Moving the steering wheel isn't an option because of long term shoulder comfort, as the seat is already bottomed-out. I have similar issues in other vehicles - Lexus, BMW, MBZ... Comes down to some of us have torsos that are just a bit longer and legs a bit shorter than average, making our eye level a bit higher than average when we are seated. I'd really like Tesla to drop the important stuff down just a tad again in 7.1 and not forget some of us odd-dimensioned owners. ;)

FWIW, I'm not quite 6', and I know this whole thing comes across that I'm (and perhaps a few others too are) some sort of alien creature or abnormal looking people. I don't think that is the case, but if I tilt the seat back far enough that I can see the whole instrument panel (meaning my eye level is then lower), the steering wheel then won't come out far enough for my arms to comfortably reach; then I try to move the seat forward but my legs get scrunched-up touching the brake and acceleration pedal, and my right foot does not make as comfortable transition between the two without me getting charlie-horses in my calves or thighs after a while. With V7.0, I already have the steering wheel up higher than I desire so I can see the top of the new speed digits and all of the AutoPilot indicators on either side, but will miss most warning indicators above them or certainly to the extreme left and right of the top of the display that are hidden by the wheel (upper left of Nav, some of Energy or Trip on right, new Sensor displays for say left front bumper are all cut off). In this position, shoulder comfort is a problem on longer trips, and writing this, I remind myself of a short cartoon character sitting in the seat, driving the car with their hands too high above their head. I really do think it comes down to what I highlighted in bold above, for just a few of us, and UI design could consider this to have less important icons and information at the top far left/right extremes to help some drivers with this perhaps not-average body frame. My Dad was a similar build with the same shorter legs challenge, but 3-4" shorter in overall height than me, so did not have the dash visibility issues like I seem to on more modern cars that try to use all the space they can presenting information -- unlike very old cars with say 3 analog dials that wouldn't be a problem for any of us.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
Back from my post #375 in this thread...


FWIW, I'm not quite 6', and I know this whole thing comes across that I'm (and perhaps a few others too are) some sort of alien creature or abnormal looking people. I don't think that is the case, but if I tilt the seat back far enough that I can see the whole instrument panel (meaning my eye level is then lower), the steering wheel then won't come out far enough for my arms to comfortably reach; then I try to move the seat forward but my legs get scrunched-up touching the brake and acceleration pedal, and my right foot does not make as comfortable transition between the two without me getting charlie-horses in my calves or thighs after a while. With V7.0, I already have the steering wheel up higher than I desire so I can see the top of the new speed digits and all of the AutoPilot indicators on either side, but will miss most warning indicators above them or certainly to the extreme left and right of the top of the display that are hidden by the wheel (upper left of Nav, some of Energy or Trip on right, new Sensor displays for say left front bumper are all cut off). In this position, shoulder comfort is a problem on longer trips, and writing this, I remind myself of a short cartoon character sitting in the seat, driving the car with their hands too high above their head. I really do think it comes down to what I highlighted in bold above, for just a few of us, and UI design could consider this to have less important icons and information at the top far left/right extremes to help some drivers with this perhaps not-average body frame. My Dad was a similar build with the same shorter legs challenge, but 3-4" shorter in overall height than me, so did not have the dash visibility issues like I seem to on more modern cars that try to use all the space they can presenting information -- unlike very old cars with say 3 analog dials that wouldn't be a problem for any of us.

Thanks for the write-up.

I conceded I was wrong a few posts back:

You know what? You're right. I can force it to block some of the IC. I guess I was thinking there's always a position in which you can see the full IC corner-to-corner, but that may not be the most comfortable driving position for a particular person, and to be more comfortable, they prefer to block a corner of the IC.
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,442
Ithaca, NY
3. If I press on the turn signal without clicking it into place, I want to change lanes. OK fine, the car starts changing lanes. When it gets at least 1/3 or 1/2 of the way into the new lane, I should be able to let go of the stalk and have the car complete the lane change. Instead, it scares the hell out of me and everyone around me by veering sharply back into the original lane. This is not ideal.

I get it, but if I'm holding the stalk in position long enough to get halfway into the new lane, that's not an accidental touch. And besides, the car knows the lane is clear to merge, so, accidental or not, continuing the merge at that point is less dangerous than suddenly veering back.

Actually I think Tesla got this part of it right.

If you're holding the stalk in position to change lanes, you need a way to abort the lane change at any time before it completes. Releasing the stalk is the way to do that. If you want the lane change to complete, just keep holding the stalk until it does.

And as for the car knowing that it is clear to merge, that brings up another point: it really doesn't.

There has been a lot of confusion about this.

The car does not have a rear-facing radar unit. The only way the car "sees" anything behind it, or to the sides, is with the ultrasonics, which have a range of 16 feet. A vehicle approaching at a significantly higher rate of speed than the Model S won't really be "seen" by the Model S until it is too late.

Tesla has written that lane changes should be initiated by the driver, only after making certain that it is safe to change lanes. But Tesla's marketing has also caused some confusion, and some of the articles written recently by the media have added to that confusion.

I really think it is important that we help spread the word on this issue, and clear up the confusion.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
Actually I think Tesla got this part of it right.

If you're holding the stalk in position to change lanes, you need a way to abort the lane change at any time before it completes. Releasing the stalk is the way to do that. If you want the lane change to complete, just keep holding the stalk until it does.

And as for the car knowing that it is clear to merge, that brings up another point: it really doesn't.

There has been a lot of confusion about this.

The car does not have a rear-facing radar unit. The only way the car "sees" anything behind it, or to the sides, is with the ultrasonics, which have a range of 16 feet. A vehicle approaching at a significantly higher rate of speed than the Model S won't really be "seen" by the Model S until it is too late.

Tesla has written that lane changes should be initiated by the driver, only after making certain that it is safe to change lanes. But Tesla's marketing has also caused some confusion, and some of the articles written recently by the media have added to that confusion.

I really think it is important that we help spread the word on this issue, and clear up the confusion.


I agree with what you said, but a minor nitpick to the bolded:
You can disengage the lane change with the following (all of which disengages AP, your method would keep AP engaged still)
1. Hold the steering wheel to overpower it
2. Press the button on the stalk to turn off AP
3. Push the stalk away from the driver to turn off AP
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top