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Firmware 7.1

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Does anyone else find it unnerving that the "solution" to many problems with the Tesla is basically the same voodoo
employed with crappy Windows PCs: "Yeah, that happens. Just reboot it."?

Not unnerving because I thoroughly researched this car here and elsewhere before I bought it. Reboots and workarounds are part of life with emerging technology. The best part is that with OTA updates it keeps getting better and better.
 
Does anyone else find it unnerving that the "solution" to many problems with the Tesla is basically the same voodoo
employed with crappy Windows PCs: "Yeah, that happens. Just reboot it."?
As Mike says, "not unnerving", but yes, I do find it disappointing my technologically-advanced luxury vehicle that is the basis for world BEV domination, and is lauded for it's custom in-house firmware and over-the-air update capability, is getting further behind when it comes to firmware refinement and as Lexus has put it for years in their marketing, any "constant pursuit of perfection".

Unless its Autopilot, "little annoyances" like needing to occasionally reboot, or Infotainment and associated capabilities that are not-quite-fully-baked for everyday use, are not high on Elon, Tesla's, and it would appear the majority of owner's priority lists to-date -- or the noise level would have likely changed things by now. As I've said in other threads, non-Autopilot firmware improvements seem to take a back seat to nearly everything unless it is targeted to address safety or negative press, gain publicity, or resolve a problem that otherwise effects the bottom line. Improving firmware for the sake of usability and customer sat of the everyday owner doesn't (yet) appear to be on Tesla's radar.

Despite that, I continue to officially report each deficiency I find to Tesla (hopefully others do the same), workaround the things I can (thanks in large part to the TMC community), while enjoying most everything else about my MS and hoping the next firmware update will increase my satisfaction and enjoyment of my MS even more.
 
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Does anyone else find it unnerving that the "solution" to many problems with the Tesla is basically the same voodoo
employed with crappy Windows PCs: "Yeah, that happens. Just reboot it."?
It would be unnerving if you couldn't drive during that time but that's not the case. I think I can live without music, HVAC controls for a couple of minutes.
 
Reboots ... are part of life with emerging technology.
I can't remember the last time I had to "voodoo reboot" a linux system to resolve a problem. This requirement is in no way
universal for technology, emerging or otherwise.

To be clear, it isn't the imperfection of the technology that bothers me. It is the "we don't need or care to know what the
root cause of your problem was -- just reboot and cross your fingers" attitude that bugs me
 
I can't remember the last time I had to "voodoo reboot" a linux system to resolve a problem. This requirement is in no way
universal for technology, emerging or otherwise.

To be clear, it isn't the imperfection of the technology that bothers me. It is the "we don't need or care to know what the
root cause of your problem was -- just reboot and cross your fingers" attitude that bugs me

How are you so sure that a RCA isn't happening after you report it? I've worked in some of the largest data centers in the world and just because a system is bounced to get the business back up doesn't mean there's not an RCA to fix a problem from reoccurring.

There's several issues over my last 6 months of Model S ownership that required a quick reboot to get me up and going and on the road such as losing cellular connectivity, map malfunction, camera issue and even a stuck window. All have eventually been resolved and haven't reoccurred. Just be sure to report everything in writing (email).

If you're looking for perfection I'm afraid you're not going to get it with this technology and this may not be the right car for you.
 
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What evidence do you have that the practices that lead to the need for "voodoo rebooting" of some systems don't extend into more critical systems?

For me there's a year's ownership experience. I might have had to reboot the IC and the MCU on occasion, but the safety-critical systems have never been compromised to the best of my knowledge.

From people who have done teardowns of Teslas, we know that the different computer systems in the car are very different...the IC and MCU run a Linux distribution for instance, while others run a different operating system, and likely have different software development practices. The different computer systems interact in very controlled ways.

There is obviously no top-down directive within Tesla saying "Tesla products shall not do this".

Different parts of a system can have different reliability requirements, and I'd be surprised if Tesla didn't consider this. As an analogy, I have some experience making commercial network appliances and we prioritized the reliability of data collection and availability over the reliability of the user interface.

My $0.02...some people have much longer ownership experience, and/or know more about the embedded systems running the cars.

Bruce.
 
What evidence do you have that the practices that lead to the need for "voodoo rebooting" of some systems don't extend into more critical systems? There is obviously no top-down directive within Tesla saying "Tesla products shall not do this".
What evidence do you have that would indicate some systems would be compromised during a reboot? The fact that I've done it while the car is moving and I didn't end up in a ditch doesn't say much, but the fact that Tesla is so concerned about safety says a lot. If it at all compromised the safety of the car, Tesla wouldn't allow some type of reboot without some type of warning message let alone do it while it is in motion.
 
Despite that, I continue to officially report each deficiency I find to Tesla (hopefully others do the same), workaround the things I can (thanks in large part to the TMC community), while enjoying most everything else about my MS and hoping the next firmware update will increase my satisfaction and enjoyment of my MS even more.
Interesting. I have long given up on reporting things to Tesla. If a single one of my reports had lead to it actually being fixed I might have continued... but frankly I don't think they care one bit. If it's not useful to hype the stock it's not happening. And since there are clearly hundreds of thousands of sheep out there who'll happily give them money even with the way they ignore their customers right now, I don't see why this would change. And yes, having bought three Teslas in the past three years, I'm clearly among those sheep.
The moment a decent car is available to compete with Tesla I think this may have to change. Until then? Whatever.
 
Interesting. I have long given up on reporting things to Tesla. If a single one of my reports had lead to it actually being fixed I might have continued... but frankly I don't think they care one bit. If it's not useful to hype the stock it's not happening. And since there are clearly hundreds of thousands of sheep out there who'll happily give them money even with the way they ignore their customers right now, I don't see why this would change. And yes, having bought three Teslas in the past three years, I'm clearly among those sheep.
The moment a decent car is available to compete with Tesla I think this may have to change. Until then? Whatever.
:) ...and that's our personal differences. It appears the detail isn't as important to you having purchased three Tesla, which sends the message to Elon all is good. We have different expectations and desires in our rides it appears. I get it, and that it's fine by me.

I've perhaps owned too many luxury vehicles that focus on refinement and whose mfgrs I do believe try to listen to their customers as to what's important. With my entire professional life involved with technology and customer service, that also highly influences my expectation what I receive as anyone's customer. I will continue to try and provide business-like input on the issues without being a broken-record until I leave the brand, or the problems are corrected to what I believe Tesla is capable of. I was one of the first in the US to own a hybrid, and drove two different Lexus hybrids for more than 10 years before moving to my Tesla this past Fall -- so being part of an environmental movement and a company promoting new tech IS important to me. I appreciate what Elon and Tesla are promoting for the future good, waited until I felt there was a pretty solid track record, and sold both my Lexus hybrid and MBZ ICE to consolidate to my single MS. I went all-in to the vision from my POV this past October.

Yet despite all the wonders, in just a few months of ownership, Tesla's demonstrated focus on the Press and tomorrow, and lack of attention to the little things today that could move my ownership experience from good to awesome has become disheartening. Tesla has not (yet) met their obligations to me as their customer resolving (firmware?) issues like lack of Rated Range on my newly delivered S90D. As it may be to some who have the cash to burn (or effectively donate to a non-tax-deductible cause and one man's vision), the tech and a promise of tomorrow isn't the only value proposition I'm looking for as a luxury vehicle (aka MS) owner. Even with some slack I acknowledged I'd need to likely give Tesla before ordering, I still expect more attention to the detail and customer satisfaction which approaches my previous luxury vehicles that cost $40K less than my MS. Tesla generally deals with problems a SC can address pretty well it appears, but almost ignoring acknowledged firmware bugs just because they can is unacceptable -- at least to me.

I recognize I'm in the minority on this position around here today, but this lack of focus on today's customer is what has moved me onto the fence as to if I would purchase another Tesla tomorrow if (heaven forbid -- knock on wood!) something happened to my beloved MS. Others like you are satisfied, and others will buy more Tesla which is great. I would really love to own a Tesla until the day I die, but despite all my studying and analysis before placing my order last Fall, now that I'm an MS owner, I am no longer confident how Tesla elects to deliver both hardware and software customer service meets my needs or expectations. I have 7.5 years left of warranty and service with my prepaid MS agreements, so we'll see where time takes Tesla and I. Peace.​
 
I recognize I'm in the minority on this position around here today, but this lack of focus on today's customer is what has moved me onto the fence as to if I would purchase another Tesla tomorrow if (heaven forbid -- knock on wood!) something happened to my beloved MS. Others like you are satisfied, and others will buy more Tesla which is great. I would really love to own a Tesla until the day I die, but despite all my studying and analysis before placing my order last Fall, now that I'm an MS owner, I am no longer confident how Tesla elects to deliver both hardware and software customer service meets my needs or expectations. I have 7.5 years left of warranty and service with my prepaid MS agreements, so we'll see where time takes Tesla and I. Peace.​

I agree 100%. I'm not sure if you are in the minority or not but I suspect you aren't. Although I have seen improvements in the software, Tesla generally hasn't followed through on fixing some of the known issues. I'm just saying there have been incremental improvements that we all have noticed and many of those aren't necessarily in the release notes. As you point out they haven't given us the complete fix for the algo issue with the Rated Range problem for 90D's and fixing that (and Navigation) are key to establishing their credibility for many of us.

Having said that, this thread offshoot is about "reboots" and whether that's proof that Tesla is weak in software development. My position is that isn't proof. They may have challenges with software but I'd rather bounce my displays once in a while than to take it in to a service center. As stated, many of the things I had to reboot for were ultimately fixed in various updates. What I hope is they get better in software, organization and communication.
 
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Indeed. One way to demonstrate strength would be to adhere to one of the best practices of release management, which would be to include release notes *with every release*, no matter how trivial.

Note the iOS App Store. Won't see a release there without at the very least, the cursory "bug fixes and minor performance enhancements".

For you see, there is value in consistency, and value in even the sentence fragment above. Why? Because if I see said fragment, I know not to expect, for example, a markedly different TACC experience, or, for that matter, any significant change to the driving experience whatsoever. This will start to matter. Again, there is value in stating what something is *not*.

And no, there are no liability issues, intellectual property issues, or any of the other occasionally-espoused handwringing hokum associated with the simple adherence to enterprise-level best practice.

Firmware releases aside, my biggest concerns going forward are related to variable service experiences and expectations. Tesla pulls a lot of new Service hires from dealerships, and then this tends to snowball through referrals and such. Bad habits are harder to break than no habits.

So... now before every service visit, I photograph the car inside and out from end to end with as much rigor as the service advisor displays by feeling under the edges of the car for damage. Had I started doing this earlier, I would have saved myself the upcoming expense of replacing the dash aluminum bezel/trim pieces - one of which costs $361 to replace (the one around the MCU). No idea what the horizontal one above that costs to replace (that was bent slightly during the LTE retrofit). Nor the black plastic piece below the B-pillar that was nicked during B-pillar replacement.

Could not care less that there are dealerships out there that are just as bad, as some will undoubtedly opine. You don't measure excellence from the bottom up.

Meanwhile, I have complete confidence that the supercharger network will continue to improve both in the contexts of density as well as distance, and of course the car gets better with every production cycle and week. In theory, the car will continue to improve until less service is required, *net* of new flaws introduced. We're just not quite there yet. Close, though - as it stands today, many people have trouble-free cars and don't see the inside of a SvC but for their optional annual servicings.

The best part is that once some sustained/sustainable level of production is reached in a few years, the rough edges - up with which many of us have patiently put, will get smoothed out to the benefit of all concerned.
 
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Interesting. I have long given up on reporting things to Tesla. If a single one of my reports had lead to it actually being fixed I might have continued... but frankly I don't think they care one bit. If it's not useful to hype the stock it's not happening. And since there are clearly hundreds of thousands of sheep out there who'll happily give them money even with the way they ignore their customers right now, I don't see why this would change. And yes, having bought three Teslas in the past three years, I'm clearly among those sheep.
The moment a decent car is available to compete with Tesla I think this may have to change. Until then? Whatever.

:) ...and that's our personal differences. It appears the detail isn't as important to you having purchased three Tesla, which sends the message to Elon all is good. We have different expectations and desires in our rides it appears. I get it, and that it's fine by me.

I think you may be making the wrong conclusion about Dirk and how he feels about this from his post, Bert. Knowing what Dirk has been saying for some time, I believe you both have similar concerns and ideologies on this topic. If I'm right, it's just that Dirk is further along the frustration curve, and has essentially given up on the hope that anything he (or any of us) do will result in change, while you, Bert, still remain optimistic.
 
I have to fully agree. Tesla right now gets away with ignoring customer complaints like this only because they don't currently have any real competition. When that changes (and eventually it will) Tesla will either change, or die. My hope is on the former, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by the later either.
The key is competition, I welcome as much competition as possible, and Tesla has always said the same, so I say bring it on. It will either result in a stronger Tesla, or not, but either way it will result in better cars for all of us, even if they don't end up having a "T" on the nose.
 
I think you may be making the wrong conclusion about Dirk and how he feels about this from his post, Bert. Knowing what Dirk has been saying for some time, I believe you both have similar concerns and ideologies on this topic. If I'm right, it's just that Dirk is further along the frustration curve, and has essentially given up on the hope that anything he (or any of us) do will result in change, while you, Bert, still remain optimistic.
You know me well, Andy - I think that's exactly what it boils down to.
 
382 reports of 2.16.17 by now. Definitely a complete roll out. If you haven't received 2.16.17, yet, I think you are being left out.

We have six reports of 2.16.31 (but none the last couple of days) and now the first report of 2.16.51 on a P85D after it received its ludicrous update at the SC... it will be interesting if that gets rolled out OTA as well.