Firmware 8.0

[jgs]

Ummm, perhaps I am missing something, but if you use the exit/entry profile every time before you get out of the car, there'd be no benefit to setting a fob to that profile, as the seat and steering wheel would still be in their exit/entry positions when you return.

If there are two drivers, as long as each of them uses the exit/entry profile before getting out, the system works, without a need to tie a profile to a fob.

What am I missing?

You're missing that my wife's entry/exit profile makes it almost impossible for me to even get into the driver's seat.

 

[Andyw2100]

You're missing that my wife's entry/exit profile makes it almost impossible for me to even get into the driver's seat.

OK, that makes sense.

I was thinking of a situation where all drivers used the same entry / exit profile, and that profile would provide enough space for all drivers.

 

[supratachophobia]

In light of the recent update that includes the 5 band equalizer that randomly resets overnight, and the turn signal chime dropping in/out intermittently, here is the owernship side of Tesla software updates:

Cycle:

1. Great anticipation about car software because it will fix all the bugs and have all the new features you want
2. Download software.
3. Praise dev team for keeping us on the bleeding edge, wonder why I ever doubted them.
4. Install software
5. Find 2 features you didn't ask for, but one of them is cool and the other is there if you need it. Realize that 4 bugs have been fixed, but now 2 of them are different bugs affecting the same function or one of those features was taken away and/or changed. And then 1 more bug has been added and 1 feature doesn't work like it used to.
6. Get angry at devs, who's fault it probably isn't because A. They don't own/drive a Tesla every day, and/or B. They are taking their priority/marching orders from someone else who sees the ownership base as needing to just live with it because surely not enough people will complain.
7. Rinse/Repeat

 

[ig_epower]

Owners - I have had the car for 4 months now and have experienced several firmware updates. The number of side-effects is quite alarming on so many levels. My company develops medical software and we have quality control systems in place where our software releases are a lot cleaner than Tesla's. When we add a new feature, it is obvious that we test that specific feature and sometimes another bug may be introduced that is not seemingly related to the new feature. However we run full regression testing to catch these problems well before the clients ever get their hands on the software. In Tesla's case, they have introduced buggy new features (like the equalizer settings). They also reduced the functionality of working software like AP. In the UK and many parts of the EU, people may adhere to strict posted speed limits but I can tell you where I live, no one drives at the limits. Now with this version of AP, I become a hazard on the road because everyone is trying to pass me as I become the slowest car out there. Ridiculous and unusable!! I can now only imagine the limited alpha testing resources that Tesla have internally. Perhaps all their developers (and developers' managers) are under-age and have no driving experience to speak of?

Don't get me wrong, I love my car and what it stands for but with the incessant over-nagging AP on the divided highways and now speed-limit behaviour on undivided highways, the trend doesn't look promising.

 

[msnow]

Owners - I have had the car for 4 months now and have experienced several firmware updates. The number of side-effects is quite alarming on so many levels. My company develops medical software and we have quality control systems in place where our software releases are a lot cleaner than Tesla's. When we add a new feature, it is obvious that we test that specific feature and sometimes another bug may be introduced that is not seemingly related to the new feature. However we run full regression testing to catch these problems well before the clients ever get their hands on the software. In Tesla's case, they have introduced buggy new features (like the equalizer settings). They also reduced the functionality of working software like AP. In the UK and many parts of the EU, people may adhere to strict posted speed limits but I can tell you where I live, no one drives at the limits. Now with this version of AP, I become a hazard on the road because everyone is trying to pass me as I become the slowest car out there. Ridiculous and unusable!! I can now only imagine the limited alpha testing resources that Tesla have internally. Perhaps all their developers (and developers' managers) are under-age and have no driving experience to speak of?

Don't get me wrong, I love my car and what it stands for but with the incessant over-nagging AP on the divided highways and now speed-limit behaviour on undivided highways, the trend doesn't look promising.

Consider this, Tesla's beta program consists of about a 1000 people based on tweets by Elon just prior to 8.0. It makes me wonder how they can miss this obvious stuff.

 

[Andyw2100]

Consider this, Tesla's beta program consists of about a 1000 people based on tweets by Elon just prior to 8.0. It makes me wonder how they can miss this obvious stuff.

I really don't think the EAP testers or beta testers, as you referred to them a are getting early access to many of these incremental releases. If I had to guess, I'd say only the major releases get pushed out to those in the program. They'll probably get 8.1 before the rest of us, but the versions being pushed between now and then, I would guess, get some relatively quick internal testing, and then get pushed out to us.

In Tesla's defense, by and large the "bugs" we have been finding in these releases have been annoying, but, with rare exception, have not been safety issues. I'm not in any way attempting to make excuses for Tesla. But while the equalizer resetting is annoying, the car suddenly speeding up to 85 MPH unexpectedly, or veering into highway barriers would be infinitely worse.

 

[msnow]

I really don't think the EAP testers or beta testers, as you referred to them a are getting early access to many of these incremental releases. If I had to guess, I'd say only the major releases get pushed out to those in the program. They'll probably get 8.1 before the rest of us, but the versions being pushed between now and then, I would guess, get some relatively quick internal testing, and then get pushed out to us.

In Tesla's defense, by and large the "bugs" we have been finding in these releases have been annoying, but, with rare exception, have not been safety issues. I'm not in any way attempting to make excuses for Tesla. But while the equalizer resetting is annoying, the car suddenly speeding up to 85 MPH unexpectedly, or veering into highway barriers would be infinitely worse.

Your probably right but safety issues aside something is wrong here. Bad feedback process, competence, management, prioritizing...I don't know for sure but it needs to be better.

 

[Andyw2100]

Your probably right but safety issues aside something is wrong here. Bad feedback process, competence, management, prioritizing...I don't know for sure but it needs to be better.

No argument from me whatsoever.

The main reason I posted was to point out that I think it is highly unlikely the 1000 people in the EAP are getting the incremental firmware updates.

 

[msnow]

No argument from me whatsoever.

The main reason I posted was to point out that I think it is highly unlikely the 1000 people in the EAP are getting the incremental firmware updates.

Right and I'm curious when Elon tweets (as he's done a few times this week) that 8.1 is in "validation" who and how many is that.

 

[supratachophobia]

Consider this, Tesla's beta program consists of about a 1000 people based on tweets by Elon just prior to 8.0. It makes me wonder how they can miss this obvious stuff.

I really don't think the EAP testers or beta testers, as you referred to them a are getting early access to many of these incremental releases. If I had to guess, I'd say only the major releases get pushed out to those in the program. They'll probably get 8.1 before the rest of us, but the versions being pushed between now and then, I would guess, get some relatively quick internal testing, and then get pushed out to us.

In Tesla's defense, by and large the "bugs" we have been finding in these releases have been annoying, but, with rare exception, have not been safety issues. I'm not in any way attempting to make excuses for Tesla. But while the equalizer resetting is annoying, the car suddenly speeding up to 85 MPH unexpectedly, or veering into highway barriers would be infinitely worse.

Again, from what I have learned, I am 98% certain that the primary existence of EAP (Early Access Program) is for testing features across different hardware platforms and NOT primarily for software feedback of functionality and/or bugs. That's not to say an EAP member can't give feedback on how well features are working, but Tesla's main concern is making sure the software installs properly on all generations of their cars and that features related to safety do take priority. This would explain why code related to driving dynamics is seemingly good and from Team 1, and Team 2 in charge of infotainment is; understaffed, misdirected, misinformed, micromanaged, and/or untalented. I refuse to believe the latter since Tesla's hiring process is so stringent. Ie: Tesla doesn't hire idiots.

I just can't see another way to interpret what we are seeing as owners, especially in light of all the flavors of v8 progressively not getting better (with the exception of re-adding alpha shortcuts that should have never been taken away to begin with).

 

[mblakele]

Right and I'm curious when Elon tweets (as he's done a few times this week) that 8.1 is in "validation" who and how many is that.

I'd guess it means QA/QC of one sort or another, possibly the "in-house validation" Sterling Anderson talks about in his MIT talk from this summer. The bit about testing starts around 08:30. He calls the simulation part of it "the gauntlet", which is followed by "in house validation" in vehicles driven by employees. Finally they do shadow testing on customer cars.

 

[zambono]

It's very possible that the update we just received was meant for 8.1 and they decided to release those features early because of the other delays. What they failed to catch was that their persistence model changed for eq and they didn't deploy those changes yet. We'll just have to wait for 8.1

 

[purduelion]

It's very possible that the update we just received was meant for 8.1 and they decided to release those features early because of the other delays. What they failed to catch was that their persistence model changed for eq and they didn't deploy those changes yet. We'll just have to wait for 8.1

To quote a post above: "Rinse and repeat..."

Seriously though, as an ex-developer, the fact that we are getting updates and new features so frequently is awesome. Even though we collectively are the "testers", (not proven but I have reason to believe this thread is monitored ), a few "bugs" is worth hundreds of loyal customers helping drive direction and save on internal cycles.

Just ask yourself this: would you rather have another brand of car where you get no updates at all for your entire ownership? No way in heck am I going back to that!

 

[PatrickCH4313]

This feature disappeared for me after installation of 2.50.114 on Dec. 23.

Same for me. But I found a parameter for the chim by auto/close in the HomeLink setting page (at the bottom) !

 

[WannabeOwner]

a few "bugs" is worth hundreds of loyal customers helping drive direction and save on internal cycles.

I don't suppose I'm the only person telling non-Tesla-owning friends about how fragile updates are - "Two steps forward, one step back" - and the lack of effort where there have been cries of "please" for several years ... I very much doubt that that negative PR is good for Tesla - regardless of how much those same people enjoyed my "launch demonstration".

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Just ask yourself this: would you rather have another brand of car where you get no updates at all for your entire ownership? No way in heck am I going back to that!

It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. Tesla can push out updates that have fewer bugs, but clearly Tesla lacks the will to do so. It's quite obvious to me, anyway.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Sterling Anderson talks about in his MIT talk from this summer. The bit about testing starts around 08:30. He calls the simulation part of it "the gauntlet", which is followed by "in house validation" in vehicles driven by employees. Finally they do shadow testing on customer cars.

I think the "gauntlet" is the whole process, which is no doubt very effective for safety features. They must lean on this process quite heavily. But where in "Simulation -> In-house validation -> Over-the-air installation (inert) -> In-field performance validation" will things like persistence of settings across installation be caught? Only in the very last "In-field" segment. Same for much of the entertainment and lifestyle stuff. I think it's obvious why these things keep breaking -- insufficient love. Their top guys are on the important things, and other stuff merits lesser talent and lesser time. Personally, I think they have their priorities straight.

One day they will improve their process so that it catches these other sorts of errors, especially the regressions. But that time is not yet.

 

[jlewisthe3rd]

Consider this, Tesla's beta program consists of about a 1000 people based on tweets by Elon just prior to 8.0. It makes me wonder how they can miss this obvious stuff.

I really don't think the EAP testers or beta testers, as you referred to them a are getting early access to many of these incremental releases. If I had to guess, I'd say only the major releases get pushed out to those in the program. They'll probably get 8.1 before the rest of us, but the versions being pushed between now and then, I would guess, get some relatively quick internal testing, and then get pushed out to us.

In Tesla's defense, by and large the "bugs" we have been finding in these releases have been annoying, but, with rare exception, have not been safety issues. I'm not in any way attempting to make excuses for Tesla. But while the equalizer resetting is annoying, the car suddenly speeding up to 85 MPH unexpectedly, or veering into highway barriers would be infinitely worse.

Again, from what I have learned, I am 98% certain that the primary existence of EAP (Early Access Program) is for testing features across different hardware platforms and NOT primarily for software feedback of functionality and/or bugs. That's not to say an EAP member can't give feedback on how well features are working, but Tesla's main concern is making sure the software installs properly on all generations of their cars and that features related to safety do take priority. This would explain why code related to driving dynamics is seemingly good and from Team 1, and Team 2 in charge of infotainment is; understaffed, misdirected, misinformed, micromanaged, and/or untalented. I refuse to believe the latter since Tesla's hiring process is so stringent. Ie: Tesla doesn't hire idiots.

I just can't see another way to interpret what we are seeing as owners, especially in light of all the flavors of v8 progressively not getting better (with the exception of re-adding alpha shortcuts that should have never been taken away to begin with).

I actually met 2 Beta/EAP owners in California, and after having some lengthy conversations with them (nothing revealing about what they are testing), its clear that they are not the main measure of Quality Control, so its silly when owners get buggy releases and then try to blame the beta/EAP owners for "missing" things. It is the developers and internal QA's job to catch defects and give primary feedback, the beta/EAP is just as was mentioned above to ensure that it works on multiple hardware configurations. So please stop bashing these men and women who are fellow owners, and put the blame where it needs to be with the Tesla dev/QA team. Also the one thing I was also able to confirm is that they test major releases and not incremental so the theory on these releases being for 8.1 but released early makes more sense as to why this is happening. 8.1 will need to follow the speed limit more closely in order to follow the nav route on highways...and especially for AP2 cars which are deemed "fully autonomous" they cant afford to mess up or do anything that would compromise the integrity of the FSD push.

 

[LastGas]

To get back on track, how many fobs can be associated with a given vehicle? Just two?

Bruce.

The Model S supports up to 5 keys.

 

[msnow]

I think the "gauntlet" is the whole process, which is no doubt very effective for safety features. They must lean on this process quite heavily. But where in "Simulation -> In-house validation -> Over-the-air installation (inert) -> In-field performance validation" will things like persistence of settings across installation be caught? Only in the very last "In-field" segment. Same for much of the entertainment and lifestyle stuff. I think it's obvious why these things keep breaking -- insufficient love. Their top guys are on the important things, and other stuff merits lesser talent and lesser time. Personally, I think they have their priorities straight.

One day they will improve their process so that it catches these other sorts of errors, especially the regressions. But that time is not yet.

The "gauntlet" must not include testing for truck and center divider lust, Navigation or Media Player.