FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

[Skalinator]

First, let me start of by saying, I work in technology. As a Cloud Architect, I am heavily involved and very familiar with rapid software development, software development practices etc. I only say this to frame that I would say I am more tolerant than most with this AP2 process. One of the reasons I went with Tesla (first time owner, Dec/2016) was AP2. I fully knew AP2 was not complete, I knew there would be some issues, especially with Tesla ditching the Mobile Eye system and developing their own. I knew it would not be as smooth as the Sales Rep advised me it would be. I was actually excited to be a part of the process. Seeing the car grow and mature into an "autonomous" vehicle, really the first of it's kind, was very exciting prospect. And I knew buying it, that despite what Elon says, the car will never be Level 5 autonomous. I am, or at least was, expecting between level 3-4 autonomy, the car could take drive almost all freeways, exit, drive streets, stop signs etc. I would have to take over in parking lots, etc...Now, i don't even see that happening, at least not any time soon. I fully regret buying FSD. I think AP2 is/will be a worthy investment, they will eventually get there, but i just don't see anything beyond a fully functional and mostly reliable AP2. I just don't understand where the disconnect is between what they showed us in the FSD videos and what we have now. Totally understand that is internal code they are using, but they were showing street driving at 35 mph and it's like not even the basic code logic is being used in what we have. Autosteer AP code is not totally unqiue compared to FSD code. Yes the FSD code will take into account MANY more things, but the base of the code should be the same. We have nothing even close to what they have shown based on my experience below.

Was very excited today to get Firmware (17.5.36).... until I tested it.

imagine you go to the bar, you had 6 double shots, and threw back 5 or 6 beers. Then you decide to be an idiot and drive. That's how the car drives with "Local road driving" AP2. It's basically not usable.

Observations

1. Going through an intersection.. Yeah.. don't do that... Car stars to veer right heavily trying to find a right lane marker

2. Streets with right exit lanes...Yeah... don't do that... It will start to take that right turn lane then suddenly jerk back over into the lane you were in.

3. Road with a smooth 90 turn ahead? Yeah... don't do that... car won't decelerate or even take the turn... it sure does try though.

4. Next to a marked bike lane? Yeah... don't do that... seems to swerve into them.

5. General lane keeps overall just unpredictable


I'd be fine if the update read this way (which it should)

"Autosteer while on Local Roads, only use in this condition:

1. You are in the center lane. Left lanes with left turn lanes and right lanes with right turn lanes do not work.
2. The road has no major curves or turns

Generally Autosteer will only work going straight in a clearly marked center lane."

Something to that effect.

I hope Elon proves me wrong. He has in the past. I just don't see it.

 

[JoaoD]

From the title and the beginning of your post I though you would be saying the opposite that you just wrote. I though you would be much surprised with the evolution from the last software update.
Nevertheless, thanks for letting us know and keep us updated with your experience using EAP.

 

[electracity]

I like this guy. Also the thread title rocks.

 

[josher32]

Did they increase the freeway speed limit for Autopilot? Or is it still at 50?

 

[Skalinator]

Did they increase the freeway speed limit for Autopilot? Or is it still at 50?

Still at 50.

 

[Vitold]

First, let me start of by saying, I work in technology. As a Cloud Architect, I am heavily involved and very familiar with rapid software development, software development practices etc. I only say this to frame that I would say I am more tolerant than most with this AP2 process. One of the reasons I went with Tesla (first time owner, Dec/2016) was AP2. I fully knew AP2 was not complete, I knew there would be some issues, especially with Tesla ditching the Mobile Eye system and developing their own. I knew it would not be as smooth as the Sales Rep advised me it would be. I was actually excited to be a part of the process. Seeing the car grow and mature into an "autonomous" vehicle, really the first of it's kind, was very exciting prospect. And I knew buying it, that despite what Elon says, the car will never be Level 5 autonomous. I am, or at least was, expecting between level 3-4 autonomy, the car could take drive almost all freeways, exit, drive streets, stop signs etc. I would have to take over in parking lots, etc...Now, i don't even see that happening, at least not any time soon. I fully regret buying FSD. I think AP2 is/will be a worthy investment, they will eventually get there, but i just don't see anything beyond a fully functional and mostly reliable AP2. I just don't understand where the disconnect is between what they showed us in the FSD videos and what we have now. Totally understand that is internal code they are using, but they were showing street driving at 35 mph and it's like not even the basic code logic is being used in what we have. Autosteer AP code is not totally unqiue compared to FSD code. Yes the FSD code will take into account MANY more things, but the base of the code should be the same. We have nothing even close to what they have shown based on my experience below.

Was very excited today to get Firmware (17.5.36).... until I tested it.

imagine you go to the bar, you had 6 double shots, and threw back 5 or 6 beers. Then you decide to be an idiot and drive. That's how the car drives with "Local road driving" AP2. It's basically not usable.

Observations

1. Going through an intersection.. Yeah.. don't do that... Car stars to veer right heavily trying to find a right lane marker

2. Streets with right exit lanes...Yeah... don't do that... It will start to take that right turn lane then suddenly jerk back over into the lane you were in.

3. Road with a smooth 90 turn ahead? Yeah... don't do that... car won't decelerate or even take the turn... it sure does try though.

4. Next to a marked bike lane? Yeah... don't do that... seems to swerve into them.

5. General lane keeps overall just unpredictable


I'd be fine if the update read this way (which it should)

"Autosteer while on Local Roads, only use in this condition:

1. You are in the center lane. Left lanes with left turn lanes and right lanes with right turn lanes do not work.
2. The road has no major curves or turns

Generally Autosteer will only work going straight in a clearly marked center lane."

Something to that effect.

I hope Elon proves me wrong. He has in the past. I just don't see it.

There are few people here that report car bouncing between the lines while others don't. I think your car has misaligned cameras.

 

[Skalinator]

There are few people here that report car bouncing between the lines while others don't. I think your car has misaligned cameras.

Could be. Worth a shot, I will make a call into the service center.

They need logic in the code that detects that if that is the case.

The way it behaves seems like code flaw, it does the same thing on the freeway in the right most lane. Sometimes it will take the freeway exit (when it should just go straight, ignoring the exit), or it starts to take the exit, the bounces back. I have seen others with that report also. But you could be right, the problem is the service centers don't seem to familiar with what's going on in AP2 world. I was there yesterday for a flat tire (that process was actually very pleasant), overheard a tech telling a couple asking why their new Tesla won't drive it self, it doesn't see stop signs (sigh) and he said no AP2 was really in production yet but will fully be out soon.

I will report back on service center response

 

[AMPUP]

with all these AP1 and AP2 threads I'm quite happy driving my classic for another few years until we have a reliable and usable AP system... I wonder if we will ever be out of Beta.. I still have the Beta Calendar I think

 

[andrewket]

I believe there is code to test for camera alignment. That's part of the calibration process. If your cameras are out of alignment, it will never activate AP.

 

[Skalinator]

yes, it took a day for mine to activate. My thought would be, what if something happened after the calibration, if the camera pitch changed, something caused the cameras to go out of alignment, will AP know and check for that, I hope it would but at this point who knows.

I believe there is code to test for camera alignment. That's part of the calibration process. If your cameras are out of alignment, it will never activate AP.

 

[BigD0g]

I'd bet large sums of money each time the system powers on it does a calibration check to make sure things are still ok. It would be a crazy omission to just always assume things are ok and nothing changed since the last trip.

yes, it took a day for mine to activate. My thought would be, what if something happened after the calibration, if the camera pitch changed, something caused the cameras to go out of alignment, will AP know and check for that, I hope it would but at this point who knows.

 

[Skalinator]

I'd bet large sums of money each time the system powers on it does a calibration check to make sure things are still ok. It would be a crazy omission to just always assume things are ok and nothing changed since the last trip.

Agreed, i would have a hard time believing it doesn't. Just how sensitive it is, i wonder... For example, they ran into an issue with the camera pitch on our AP2 cars when AP2 started rolling out en masse, and they had to put in a patch to alert that it was out of range...

 

[Drone Flyer]

First, let me start of by saying, I work in technology. As a Cloud Architect, I am heavily involved and very familiar with rapid software development, software development practices etc. I only say this to frame that I would say I am more tolerant than most with this AP2 process. One of the reasons I went with Tesla (first time owner, Dec/2016) was AP2. I fully knew AP2 was not complete, I knew there would be some issues, especially with Tesla ditching the Mobile Eye system and developing their own. I knew it would not be as smooth as the Sales Rep advised me it would be. I was actually excited to be a part of the process. Seeing the car grow and mature into an "autonomous" vehicle, really the first of it's kind, was very exciting prospect. And I knew buying it, that despite what Elon says, the car will never be Level 5 autonomous. I am, or at least was, expecting between level 3-4 autonomy, the car could take drive almost all freeways, exit, drive streets, stop signs etc. I would have to take over in parking lots, etc...Now, i don't even see that happening, at least not any time soon. I fully regret buying FSD. I think AP2 is/will be a worthy investment, they will eventually get there, but i just don't see anything beyond a fully functional and mostly reliable AP2. I just don't understand where the disconnect is between what they showed us in the FSD videos and what we have now. Totally understand that is internal code they are using, but they were showing street driving at 35 mph and it's like not even the basic code logic is being used in what we have. Autosteer AP code is not totally unqiue compared to FSD code. Yes the FSD code will take into account MANY more things, but the base of the code should be the same. We have nothing even close to what they have shown based on my experience below.

Was very excited today to get Firmware (17.5.36).... until I tested it.

imagine you go to the bar, you had 6 double shots, and threw back 5 or 6 beers. Then you decide to be an idiot and drive. That's how the car drives with "Local road driving" AP2. It's basically not usable.

Observations

1. Going through an intersection.. Yeah.. don't do that... Car stars to veer right heavily trying to find a right lane marker

2. Streets with right exit lanes...Yeah... don't do that... It will start to take that right turn lane then suddenly jerk back over into the lane you were in.

3. Road with a smooth 90 turn ahead? Yeah... don't do that... car won't decelerate or even take the turn... it sure does try though.

4. Next to a marked bike lane? Yeah... don't do that... seems to swerve into them.

5. General lane keeps overall just unpredictable


I'd be fine if the update read this way (which it should)

"Autosteer while on Local Roads, only use in this condition:

1. You are in the center lane. Left lanes with left turn lanes and right lanes with right turn lanes do not work.
2. The road has no major curves or turns

Generally Autosteer will only work going straight in a clearly marked center lane."

Something to that effect.

I hope Elon proves me wrong. He has in the past. I just don't see it.

As I've mentioned before, AP 2 LOL!

 

[u00mem9]

How soon can I expect my AP1 7.1 car to be worth more than I paid for it? Hezeus!

 

[SlyWombat]

And sadly in Canada, a bit of ice on the front of the car and no cruise control at all. "Diminished forward radar, sorry no cruise for you". Several times on the highway after 20km on highway the slush on front disabled me. My AP2 did handle the snow on road better than expected, it did try to follow the tire tracks as the car in front changed lanes.

 

[Sco3putt]

Got the update today and used the car around town. Actually surprised the release notes didn't give proper instruction on what to expect and the limitations of AP2. Of course we've been hearing forever that the autopilot system is designed for use on highways. I just hope someone doesn't try to push the boundaries and end up crossing yellow lines into on coming traffic. The car definitely cannot handle anything more than a slight turn.

 

[mal_tsla]

I think Tesla underestimated the value Mobileye brought to the table. It seems they are in over their heads a bit.

Hopefully hiring one of the greatest software development wizards away from Apple will put them back on track in due time (Chris Lattner, new VP of AutoPilot Software).

 

[gearchruncher]

Of course we've been hearing forever that the autopilot system is designed for use on highways.

Yet they have completely neutered it on the highway (50 MPH) while working on releasing it on local roads before it works on the highway.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

This is pretty much how I would expect it to work.

With AP1 and MobileEye it didn't really work that much better. Any time I went through any major intersection it would lose the lines, and then start searching. It was pretty much unusable on surface streets, and plus it's not entirely useful either except in special cases (like massive traffic, etc). It's not like it can read the stop sign or see a 90 degree turn.

Surface streets just won't work without extensive high resolution maps. I don't know if the AP1 generated maps are all that useful for surface streets.

So I'm not really surprised by anything the OP saw.

Will Tesla get to FSD with AP2 as it is? No, but that's more about the totality of everything that has to work. Things like intelligent roads, or ways for people to communicate to FSD cars. There is a lot of infrastructure stuff as well, and weather conditions to deal with.

But, point to point self driving in moderate weather on white listed roads? Sure, and I don't mind paying for EAP + FSD for it.

Right now I'm playing the waiting game where I'll trade my AP1 Tesla in on a Tesla that achieves it. Or I'll trade my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited in on a Volvo that achieves it. Not sure if anyone else will achieve it first.

Whoever achieves point to point self driving first with clearing regulatory hurdles gets my buy. Unless it's some >$150K car which is too expensive for me.

 

[mal_tsla]

I'm not sure I agree that it wasn't much better with AP1.

On local roads, our AP1 car slows for turns, easily handles 90 degree bends staying perfectly in the lane. On the highway, it never confuses overhead signs for cars, doesn't veer right for exits when in the right line on the highway.

We don't really let it cruise through intersections so I cant comment about that, but it definitely seems like AP2 is still struggling by comparison.

I hope they figure it out by our lease end... I really don't want to have to buy our car!