FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

[Helmuth]

Fleet learning is at the same reality phase as EAP...lots of talk, dubious reality.

For the record, Tesla has been claiming fleet learning from the start (of AP1), but offered little to back up the claim. My AP1 car happily drives heads of the road in the same spots every day.

My experience is not fleet learning, but our MX remembers a lot.
When AP 2.0 came out in January it always showed a red ghost car at the same location using the low speed AP on a winding exit. I had to enable it before I got to the exit though but the second right lane is the exit lane, too.
The car always thought a distant overhead sign (about 300 feet ahead, getting visible from the lower left because of a little curve) is a car on the right!
For the first two days there was the red ghost car, the alert sound and it slowed down!
But it never happened again since then! It learned how to handle this specific situation...

 

[Finder]

My experience is not fleet learning, but our MX remembers a lot.
When AP 2.0 came out in January it always showed a red ghost car at the same location using the low speed AP on a winding exit. I had to enable it before I got to the exit though but the second right lane is the exit lane, too.
The car always thought a distant overhead sign (about 300 feet ahead, getting visible from the lower left because of a little curve) is a car on the right!
For the first two days there was the red ghost car, the alert sound and it slowed down!
But it never happened again since then! It learned how to handle this specific situation...

Had a similar issue - don't know how to explain it. Similar time of day, same road, same firmware... none of the same AP2 issues came up as in my original post except for the car really wanting to get off at every exit it sees if you are in the far right lane. No issues with TACC doing a phantom stop, no issues with trying to go into the right lane in varying contrast situations... almost like they taught it how to deal with it without a firmware update.

Or... 1,000,000 other unrelated things didn't happen that happened before. Hard to say really.

 

[jdel]

Model S, HW2. Full AP options. Got 17.7.2 last night (Fri Feb 23). Another incremental disappointment.

How is Auto Steer on Side Streets?. Depends. I mean, wear them. You'll need them. Average distance 100 yards before something happens where you need to take over. Releasing this to the public was useless and senseless. While I don't recommend it, I think you could drive with your eyes closed longer than with side street auto steer.

Auto Steer on Hwy - Still capped at 50 MPH. Still tries to exit right whenever possible. Still doesn't react fast enough to a car inserting itself between you and the car ahead. February 23 and this is where we are? Still disappointed.

Self Parking - Haven't been able to see it even attempt to work. Yes, followed release notes guidelines. No evidence that it is there. Maybe others have another experience.

The lane departure radiating lines in the center of the dashboard. Why? If you're changing lanes and staring into the center of your dashboard instead of looking in your rear view mirrors or over your shoulder, you are begging for trouble. Even if it did work, which it doesn't, it would be a bad idea. 8 cameras, sonar, radar and rocket ships flying above the earth and this is all you can give me about the car in my blind spot?

Now many will say, this is the Tesla way. Is it? Then its sucks. Why do we all have to read these forums to learn about how 1500 lbs of steel wrapped around ourselves and our families behaves? Why do we have to read the speculation from people who wish, think and hope, but don't really know--instead of from the manufacturer?

Tesla is a great, electric car. Auto-pilot HW2, overhyped, underdeveloped, under-documented, prematurely released and a complete disappointment. A reputation killer for Tesla. If you can't get the product right, don't release it. Then come clean with your customers. Creating a self driving car is going to be hard. We all signed up for the journey. Communicating with your customers about where you really are (or are not) is a decision, not a challenge. Step up.

I expected more, because I was told more. By the sales team. By the press releases. And by the EM tweets.

 

[Dan3690]

Just tried 17.7.2 on HW2. I would definitely agree it is not ready to be used on back roads. I tried it on a two lane, well marked, deserted whindy road. The road was obviously over the limit of what the car can handle. I had to take control 4-5 times in 1/2 mile. At one point it crossed over into the other lane and was keeping me centered in the oncoming lane!!! Good try but not in the ballpark yet.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Has Andyw2100 weighed in on this yet? He seemed to have gotten Elon's attention on the "691 hp" issue. I'd lend him my HW2-equipped car so he could flame about it, but I think he's on the opposite coast.

And Jdel, wtf? Only 3 posts and you're already making the rest of us feel like we need to up our game?

I've been told that it may not be a good idea to include my VIN in my signature, but I'm expecting Elon to peruse this forum and remotely access and fix my HW2 issues. Didn't work too well when I talked on the phone to a Tesla rep about my problem, and she told me she had accessed my vehicle through my VIN. She then asked me, "OK, I see your car...overall, how do you like your Model X?" Could've gone worse I guess, she could've asked how I liked my Model 3. Or my Chevy Vega.

 

[gordo]

Hi HW2 folks! Welcome to my first year and a half with HW1! I don't see anything out of the ordinary here other than it sort of amazes me that absolutely nothing they learned with HW1 actually seems to have translated to HW2. HW1 is a complete and utter non-starter on local roads. I mean if you are in traffic on a straight away for a while, you can let it go a bit, but as soon as you come to a stop sign, yield sign, school zone, intersection, roundabout, traffic light, pedestrian crossing, animal, road debris, pothole, train track, speed limit change, tight radius curve, unclear/absent lane markings, or you need to change lanes or turn... you need to take over immediately, which sort of um, diminishes its usefulness. Maybe your hardware revision will eventually enable level 4 autonomous 'act like a passenger' city driving, but don't hold your breath folks. It's going to be a long journey, *if* it ever gets there -- think 3-4 years minimum and by then my guess is HW3 will be out with new promises.

In terms of highway, I'd estimate that you guys are probably 3-4 months away from HW1-equivalent stability. HW1 is pretty decent on highways in terms of lane holding, though not perfect. But it was a very long process to get here. Seems you're in for a similar journey.

 

[NerdUno]

Just tried 17.7.2 on HW2. I would definitely agree it is not ready to be used on back roads. I tried it on a two lane, well marked, deserted whindy road. The road was obviously over the limit of what the car can handle. I had to take control 4-5 times in 1/2 mile. At one point it crossed over into the other lane and was keeping me centered in the oncoming lane!!! Good try but not in the ballpark yet.

17.7.2 is the first release where I can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel. On well-marked (on one-side only) secondary roads, AP2 worked fairly well. It even made it through a number of unmarked intersections without difficulty. Traffic circles are a real problem, however. Probably don't have those in California as best I recall. In three attempts, I think the car would have gone up and over the traffic circle every time... without slowing down. But we're making major progress. Congrats to Elon & Team.

 

[Electroman]

Unless it go to a thrift store on its own, negotiate with the salesman a good bargain on all the things you want and bring it back safely - I don't think folks will be satisfied.

 

[drshan]

Unless it go to a thrift store on its own, negotiate with the salesman a good bargain on all the things you want and bring it back safely - I don't think folks will be satisfied.

This about sums up the latest release for me. I had the identical experience.

 

[Electroman]

I can't even bear to watch it. Real crap. As bad as Mercedes DrivePilot.

I would guess AP1 would drive much more rock solid in that road even though it is not recommended for back roads.

 

[joebiker25]

I commute 70 miles roundtrip on freeways every day and use AP1 for at least 90% of the drive. Wonderful on clearly marked lanes and stop and go traffic but I wouldn't dream of using it on on/off ramps, light colored road surfaces or in merging lanes. City streets would also be a big no-no as the AP can't handle multiple variables simultaneously (lights, stop signs, pedestrians, etc.) So I use it where I feel completely comfortable and fortunately that is most of my daily drive.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Wow AP2 is a piece of crap. How embarrassing for Tesla.

 

[NerdUno]

I can't even bear to watch it. Real crap. As bad as Mercedes DrivePilot.

I would guess AP1 would drive much more rock solid in that road even though it is not recommended for back roads.

Very different experience for us. AP2 has to "learn" your roads particularly side streets that are poorly marked. Where we live in Charleston, it's a fairly small town and we travel the same city streets all the time and have for the past two months since we got our Model S. Two hours of driving with 17.7.2 this morning, and I would give the firmware a solid B. It's far from perfect, but much improved. Having said that, we don't push the envelope and take AP2 into sharp curves or try to negotiate traffic circles. But it did well on city streets and even some of our poorly marked neighborhood streets. It also negotiated unmarked intersections without a problem. YMMV obviously.

 

[sdorn]

Just tried 17.7.2 on HW2. I would definitely agree it is not ready to be used on back roads. I tried it on a two lane, well marked, deserted whindy road. The road was obviously over the limit of what the car can handle. I had to take control 4-5 times in 1/2 mile. At one point it crossed over into the other lane and was keeping me centered in the oncoming lane!!! Good try but not in the ballpark yet.

You aren't supposed to use it on whindy roads, only regular ones.

 

[martinicus]

I tried 17.7.2 today. Not good. On a major street with space for parking on the side, rather than hug the center yellow line as it should, it tries to center itself with the curb as a reference. And then tries to stop for parked cars. Not going to work. They have a long way to go until FSD.

 

[_jal_]

So I parked my model S and got out. Autopark was unavailable because it was an end spot. i then walked to the intersection and waited for the Walk signal. A driver approached the intersection from my right. She was on her cell phone. Her traffic light was green. She stopped at the intersection despite her signal being green. She then was incredulous I wasn't crossing despite the pictogram clearly indicating Don't Walk. I'm assuming this because I saw her yelling despite the fact I couldn't hear her because the window was rolled up. I'm pretty sure her friend on the phone thought I was an idiot. So I didn't walk because I was confused.

This is the kind of behavior Mr. Musk is going to find very difficult to encode. Perhaps the Driver Aids settings screen will include an Asshat Level setting of low, medium, high, or off.

 

[Patrick W]

17.7.2 got to my S a couple of hours ago. It was well past dark when I finally managed to break away and try it out.

After some of the stuff I'd read here I was expecting a wild ride but was pleasantly surprised when the car did pretty well.

Made it through several intersections without issue but at two it did try to veer to the right. And on one country road where there is no line or curb on the right it stayed a lot closer to the right edge than I'd like but I let it go (with hands hovering over the wheel) and only once did I feel it necessary to grab the wheel.

Even took it through a tight S turn on a frontage road with a curb but no line on the right an it made it through ok though at minimum speed.

All in all it reminds me of how my previous S did on the original AutoPilot right after it was first released.

Admittedly I miss how well AutoPilot worked on my previous S but as with it I'm confident this next generation version will only get better with time.

 

[EsotericRod]

This about sums up the latest release for me. I had the identical experience.

Im still on 17.5.28.. i cant get over what i just witnessed in this video for 17.7.2.

 

[Patrick W]

Im still on 17.5.28.. i cant get over what i just witnessed in this video for 17.7.2.

With folks reporting such different experiences with the same version I wonder if an early download of say 17.7.2 is different from later downloads.

I'm just glad a seem to have an improved version.

 

[Patrick W]

17.7.2 got to my S a couple of hours ago. It was well past dark when I finally managed to break away and try it out.

After some of the stuff I'd read here I was expecting a wild ride but was pleasantly surprised when the car did pretty well.

Made it through several intersections without issue but at two it did try to veer to the right. And on one country road where there is no line or curb on the right it stayed a lot closer to the right edge than I'd like but I let it go (with hands hovering over the wheel) and only once did I feel it necessary to grab the wheel.

Even took it through a tight S turn on a frontage road with a curb but no line on the right an it made it through ok though at minimum speed.

All in all it reminds me of how my previous S did on the original AutoPilot right after it was first released.

Admittedly I miss how well AutoPilot worked on my previous S but as with it I'm confident this next generation version will only get better with time.

Following up. Just back after some time on the interstate (I figured 2:00 on a Sunday morning would be about the only time safe enough to do no more than 50 on a usually busy interstate highway).

Happy to report that the car stayed centered between the left and right lines of the right lane the whole time. It appeared to start for the first off ramp I came to but quickly decided otherwise and got right beck in the center of the lane.

Got off at one point and then waited at the top of the on ramp until no vehicles were approaching and then engaged autopilot on the on ramp doing 35 (it knew it was not on the freeway so would only do 35).

The car followed the onramp right onto the freeway at which time I used the cruise control stalk to increase to 50. No problems.

I had to manually move the car onto the off ramp that leads to my house but, curiously, once on the off ramp it allowed me to stay at 50 and kept me right in the middle of the lane and continued that way onto the state road all the way to where I turned off on my street.

So, all in all, I'm happy with tonight's drives (but I still miss my full autopilot on my previous S). Will be interesting to see how tonight's drives compare to daytime drives.