First bad M3 review

[Phrixotrichus]

From comments like these I can see why American cars are the way they are.
Germans must be an OCD obsessed people, because no one over here would NOT care about fit and finish issues on a car of 30K+ Euro, let alone 80K+ or 100K+ Euro. Hell, people over here get OCD fits over fit and finish issues on their TV sets, mobile phones - or wedding cakes, which cost a fraction of a Model 3

Come to think of it....we might have some mental problems.......

 

[AustinPowers]

Come to think of it....we might have some mental problems.......

Going by the experiences I have on my daily commutes, I would tend to agree with you...

 

[igotzzoom]

@AustinPowers, with all due respect, yes, the Germans may have an edge over the Americans in terms of panel gaps, etc., but when it comes to longer-term reliability, the Germans have little to be proud of, in my experience. German cars more than 5 years old have horrible resale value, for the primary reason that maintenance and repairs can often exceed the (used) purchase price. I also owned a Mk4 Golf GTI, and it was by far the least-reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the 2004 Chevrolet Avalanche that I bought used with 163,000 miles only needed some minor repairs and replacement of a few wear items, and it runs perfectly!

 

[jelloslug]

@AustinPowers, with all due respect, yes, the Germans may have an edge over the Americans in terms of panel gaps, etc., but when it comes to longer-term reliability, the Germans have little to be proud of, in my experience. German cars more than 5 years old have horrible resale value, for the primary reason that maintenance and repairs can often exceed the (used) purchase price. I also owned a Mk4 Golf GTI, and it was by far the least-reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the 2004 Chevrolet Avalanche that I bought used with 163,000 miles only needed some minor repairs and replacement of a few wear items, and it runs perfectly!

My i3 was the second least reliable car that I have owned. The worst was a Chrysler.

 

[Electroman]

Germans must be an OCD obsessed people, because no one over here would NOT care about fit and finish issues on a car of 30K+ Euro, let alone 80K+ or 100K+ Euro. Hell, people over here get OCD fits over fit and finish issues on their TV sets, mobile phones - or wedding cakes, which cost a fraction of a Model

Misplaced order of priorities. Perhaps, whats inside the car under the hood is probably more important than the cosmetic stuff? My 2012 Nissan Leaf with VIN 512, was perfect in all aspects and had no defects at all. In the two years I had it with me and drove 30k miles, I only went back to give the car back after my lease was over - except the battery degraded like a block of cheese on a hot day.

 

[ElecFan]

@AustinPowers, with all due respect, yes, the Germans may have an edge over the Americans in terms of panel gaps, etc., but when it comes to longer-term reliability, the Germans have little to be proud of, in my experience. German cars more than 5 years old have horrible resale value, for the primary reason that maintenance and repairs can often exceed the (used) purchase price. I also owned a Mk4 Golf GTI, and it was by far the least-reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the 2004 Chevrolet Avalanche that I bought used with 163,000 miles only needed some minor repairs and replacement of a few wear items, and it runs perfectly!

Strange, in my country (NL) German cars are known for their reliability.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

@AustinPowers, with all due respect, yes, the Germans may have an edge over the Americans in terms of panel gaps, etc., but when it comes to longer-term reliability, the Germans have little to be proud of, in my experience. German cars more than 5 years old have horrible resale value, for the primary reason that maintenance and repairs can often exceed the (used) purchase price. I also owned a Mk4 Golf GTI, and it was by far the least-reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the 2004 Chevrolet Avalanche that I bought used with 163,000 miles only needed some minor repairs and replacement of a few wear items, and it runs perfectly!

Well, annecdotal evidence....
The stats look pretty good for german cars.
Best in reliability, also reflected in a lot of charts, are the japanese though.

 

[AustinPowers]

Strange, in my country (NL) German cars are known for their reliability.

Same here.
In rankings, Japanese and German models usually have the best reliabilty scores, while US, French and Italian cars usually form the bottom of the pile.

I have often said that it is my suspicion that cars destined for the US market are of lesser build quality because US customers indeed seem to care less about fit/finish and more about lots of room, power under the hood, and lots of leather. Plus, cars there must be dirt cheap.

Of course it is all just anecdotal evidence, but all I can say from experience is that cars in the US that I drove or rode along with friends and family might have been spacious (at least in the cabin, the trunk is a different matter) and powerful, but lacking in every other department, as in fit/finish, refinement, versatility, tech features etc.
There sure is a different mindset at play.

Tesla seems to be the first "proudly made in the US" car company that strives for Japanese/German-style perfection when it comes to cars. And even though they still have some way to go, they have accomplished more in those few years than all of the "big Three" from Detroit combined in decades!

 

[AustinPowers]

@AustinPowers, with all due respect, yes, the Germans may have an edge over the Americans in terms of panel gaps, etc., but when it comes to longer-term reliability, the Germans have little to be proud of, in my experience. German cars more than 5 years old have horrible resale value, for the primary reason that maintenance and repairs can often exceed the (used) purchase price. I also owned a Mk4 Golf GTI, and it was by far the least-reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the 2004 Chevrolet Avalanche that I bought used with 163,000 miles only needed some minor repairs and replacement of a few wear items, and it runs perfectly!

See post above.
It's the complete opposite here. Japanese and German cars here tend to have the best resale value, exactly because of their high reliability versus cars from other countries. And your anecdotal evidence is as good as mine, where I can say that neither my ten year old Golf Mark III nor my current, almost fourteen year old BMW 330 Cd ever had any major issues. In fact, I have my bi-annual MOT test tomorrow and expect the car to pass with flying colours, as always.

 

[strykeroz]

I'd suggest the panel fit is an indicator that what's under the hood is equally well engineered. That's been my experience with Honda at least.

 

[igotzzoom]

Maybe it's just the price/availability of parts in the U.S. But the repair costs have an undeniably negative impact on resale values of German cars in the U.S. That and the over-reliance on leasing, which floods the used market with 3-5 year old cars, and depresses residuals. Also, German cars tend to be more technically complex than equivalent American/Japanese/Korean equivalents, hence higher repair costs.

 

[turnbowm]

Maybe it's just the price/availability of parts in the U.S. But the repair costs have an undeniably negative impact on resale values of German cars in the U.S. That and the over-reliance on leasing, which floods the used market with 3-5 year old cars, and depresses residuals. Also, German cars tend to be more technically complex than equivalent American/Japanese/Korean equivalents, hence higher repair costs.

I experienced that first hand. The auto transmission on my BMW 530i was going out at 69,000 miles. The cost for replacement was going to cost $6,000-7,000. Was not going to dump that much money into a car that was only worth $11,000, so I got rid of it.
BMW = Break My Wallet !!!

 

[brkaus]

I’ve never scrutinized panel gaps on a new car. From a Toyota pickup to a loaded BMW M3 and everything in between.

I’ve selected model based on features, look, driving, etc.

Sure, I’ve looked for chips & scratches. I’ve verified operation of all the major symptoms.

After reading “gap-gate” here I’ve stsrted looking at gaps on random cars of all common brands in parking lot. There sure is a lot of variance.

Oh well. Just my observation.

 

[jelloslug]

I experienced that first hand. The auto transmission on my BMW 530i was going out at 69,000 miles. The cost for replacement was going to cost $6,000-7,000. Was not going to dump that much money into a car that was only worth $11,000, so I got rid of it.
BMW = Break My Wallet !!!

The Ultimate Leasing Machine.

 

[SMAlset]

This isn't a car review. This is typical analyst nonsense. Analysts are notoriously brain dead -- groping for reasons to justify their arbitrary stock picks and price targets. They consistently make absurd inferences from irrelevant facts -- while trying to sound knowledgeable. No better than astrologers. Tony Sacconaghi is no exception.

I've watched CNBC off and on over the years and really don't have much respect for Tony. Watched him comment on many stocks. When I read the fit and finish comment followed by something like most people won't even notice it, well it's pretty much what I expect from him. Hopefully he got burnt badly on the 4+% uptick today.

 

[Zero CO2]

So I have had my Model S for about 6 months now and i have to say the honeymoon is ending for me.... maybe fit and finish doesn't matter at first but it is indicative of overall quality and after the excitement of the EV performance wears off ... quality becomes important again( Model S is in its 5th year of production and should be further up the learning curve)....I just recently did my first cold weather trip on a long weekend and a few more things came clear to me about the lack of Tesla quality ..... (A) Pillar squeaks showed up , the frunk would not release , I realized just how big an impact cold weather actually has on range...and it really has not been that cold yet January should be fun .... i was actually feeling a bit irritated that i dropped this kind of $ on a car ....I will concede i am not likely to go back to an ICE , but if Telsa does not improve their quality not sure I will stick with them ....I am already scheduling my 3rd SC visit for what are minor annoyances by themselves but as they accumulate my love for Telsa wains..... I am rooting for Tesla to succeed but they are not just a software company they have to get the hardware right ... they can't send out an OTA bug fix to repair my frunk latch, side view mirrors, pillar squeaks, etc .....

 

[brianman]

I read this in another article, yesterday. One of the first things I noticed was this:

"While we doubt that it would impact (or even be noticed by) most prospective buyers,...

This was used to justify the price target, although I find the fact that they believe the imperfections so minor that people wouldn't notice a bit odd...

Also, his phrasing in the part you bolded was intentional for another purpose -- indicating "I saw something mere mortals won't see." This is both CYA ("You can't see it? I just have good eyes and you don't...") and ego + opinion inflation ("Here's why I provide value that random bloggers won't see when observing vehicles in the wild.").

 

[brianman]

You can bet that anyone who isn't an ev nerd and buys a 100k+ car DOES care. The only reason Tesla gets away with stuff that seriously should not happen in that price category is because there is no one else to go to...

The moment Tesla's quasi monopoly for premium evs ends fit and finish will be very important since people will be able to compare.

Can you please pass it along to a non-Tesla manufacturer near you? Competition. Please. For real. 5 years ago. Pretty please with sugar on top?

 

[Zero CO2]

Can you please pass it along to a non-Tesla manufacturer near you? Competition. Please. For real. 5 years ago. Pretty please with sugar on top?

I am pretty confident there will be high end EV competition by the time i am ready for my next EV purchase ....It will be Tesla's to lose...

 

[Zaphod]

So I have had my Model S for about 6 months now and i have to say the honeymoon is ending for me.... maybe fit and finish doesn't matter at first but it is indicative of overall quality and after the excitement of the EV performance wears off ... quality becomes important again( Model S is in its 5th year of production and should be further up the learning curve)....I just recently did my first cold weather trip on a long weekend and a few more things came clear to me about the lack of Tesla quality ..... (A) Pillar squeaks showed up , the frunk would not release , I realized just how big an impact cold weather actually has on range...and it really has not been that cold yet January should be fun .... i was actually feeling a bit irritated that i dropped this kind of $ on a car ....I will concede i am not likely to go back to an ICE , but if Telsa does not improve their quality not sure I will stick with them ....I am already scheduling my 3rd SC visit for what are minor annoyances by themselves but as they accumulate my love for Telsa wains..... I am rooting for Tesla to succeed but they are not just a software company they have to get the hardware right ... they can't send out an OTA bug fix to repair my frunk latch, side view mirrors, pillar squeaks, etc .....

What exactly does cold weather impact on range have to do with quality?