-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
First bad M3 review
- Thread starter Keith909man
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Model 3
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
Umm, I know that. Their post was about gripes on quality. My point was what does that have to do with quality. Nothing.
Obviously some of you are willing to deal with service with fit and fitment issues. What happens if your hours away from the nearest service center? There have been incidents where people are waiting days and weeks to get their Model S and X fixed.
Tesla fan catalogs 10 months of Model S quality issues on YouTube
This isn't even include the list of Model X issues.
Tesla fan catalogs 10 months of Model S quality issues on YouTube
This isn't even include the list of Model X issues.
Your love for Tesla might wane, but your love for ellipses remains strongSo I have had my Model S for about 6 months now and i have to say the honeymoon is ending for me.... maybe fit and finish doesn't matter at first but it is indicative of overall quality and after the excitement of the EV performance wears off ... quality becomes important again( Model S is in its 5th year of production and should be further up the learning curve)....I just recently did my first cold weather trip on a long weekend and a few more things came clear to me about the lack of Tesla quality ..... (A) Pillar squeaks showed up , the frunk would not release , I realized just how big an impact cold weather actually has on range...and it really has not been that cold yet January should be fun .... i was actually feeling a bit irritated that i dropped this kind of $ on a car ....I will concede i am not likely to go back to an ICE , but if Telsa does not improve their quality not sure I will stick with them ....I am already scheduling my 3rd SC visit for what are minor annoyances by themselves but as they accumulate my love for Telsa wains..... I am rooting for Tesla to succeed but they are not just a software company they have to get the hardware right ... they can't send out an OTA bug fix to repair my frunk latch, side view mirrors, pillar squeaks, etc.....
i don't see any sign that this monopoly will end anytime soon.
Indeed I am willing to bet that the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt will eventually be pulled out once the federal tax credit ends.
Who wants to bet??????
You never looked because there weren't any. This is because Toyota and BMW panels are almost always perfect. You have a look at that Doug review video. The panel close to the window was so bad you could see it from 20+ meters away. It actually causes draft wile driving. If that was your new car you would be pissed and 5 years later when you want to sell the car guess what the potential buyer might say to you. He will say $2000 less because of the damage and he will think the car might of been in a accident. The are no excuses for misaligned panels and poor workmanship.
Last edited:
Here are some things that are used to evaluate automobile quality:
1) Reliability – how many failures per unit time or unit mileage
2) Durability – how long till it’s worn out (and of course you have to define “worn out”)
3) General feeling of robustness (tinny clangs vs. thunks, etc.)
4) High priced/high quality materials used in construction
5) High performance per unit of price or size or fuel consumption
6) Fit and finish
Gaps between panels and other fit and finish items will be a function primarily of the individual tolerances applied to individual parts (this depends on how much you want them to cost), the tolerance stacks of the assemblies they make up (depends on design and on allocated cost), and assembly tolerances (depends on part and process design and allocated cost). When you start a design project, if it’s well run, you will decide how much cost and design time are allocated to panel fit vs. other design priorities. Tight fitting panels on a vehicle indicate only that the design team allocated more parts cost and design to that item.
I honestly never inspected prior cars and only the forum and checklist on here made me inspect the Tesla. Most buyers, not frequenting the forum, will not be sensitized to minor panel fitment issues.
Of course it would be nice if Tesla mfring process could do better without spending costly resources having closer tolerances and processes that didn't require costly tweaking.
It will end soon. The classic manufacturers (in europe at least) are facing insurmountable fines for their dieselgate-and-wltp-corrected fleet CO2 values. They will have to shove a lot of EVs down customers throats till 2020 or they will get into existence threatening trouble.
You can be sure that they are actually serious about their EV announcements this time simply because they have no other choice, they have the metaphorical knife on their throats.
Last edited:
ElecFan
Member
I hope the legacy manufacturers will step up their game. The models I have seen for 2018 seem to be aiming at the model S. For the model 3 there is no competitor in sight.
Yep, seems like the classic manufacturers are mainly aiming for model S and X competitors to try to make some money on their cars.
The model 3 competition is planned for 2020 as far as we know with the likes of the VW I.D. or BMW´s I Vision.
But since the model 3 probably won`t reach europe or china in numbers before mid-late 2019 their roadmap actually (and sadly) seems viable.
Talking of china, I have to check what BYD is up to lately.
sigh.....
on another note I read that audi claimed to be buying their batteries for about 100€ per kwh which would actually be pretty fantastic.
Krugerrand
Meow
No it isn’t. It might be for you and you’re little circle of friends but it’s not for the larger public.
As a car person, I assure you those other expensive cars have plenty of issues too including fit and finish. The difference is those OEMs and their individual cars simply are not headline news these days because yawn. I just saw a top of the line Maserati the other day, fresh off the lot, with the worst side body panel wave I’ve ever seen. I can go on and on about such things and fit and finish in other hind end cars. Maybe you can’t see those issues for all the buttons, knobs and kingly upholstery?
And that`s why exactly those details are right behind drive dynamics for most car publications .....riiight those all belong to "my little circle of friends"
Krugerrand
Meow
And that`s why exactly those details are right behind drive dynamics for most car publications .....riiight those all belong to "my little circle of friends"
Car publications are indeed for your circle of friends. The majority of the public don’t read them. They get their information from commercials/ads they are bombarded by and talking to their neighbors, friends and family.
Your reality is not everyone else’s. Walk down the street and ask random strangers a) what was the most important criteria for their most recent car purchase, and b) what car won MTCY award in 2013. I triple dog dare you.
Ask someone to sit in a seat/Fiat/Alfa and then in a bmw/mercedes/audi and ask them afterwards which left a more luxurious/quality impression I triple dog dare you.
Then ask them which they want, then tell them the prices...end of story.
Premium isn`t premium just through marketing. Premium has to live up to certain quality standards.
And when you have competitiors in the same price segment your quality WILL BE compared.
Last edited:
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
Sure, I'll take your money.
The EV credit disappearing isn't even a done deal at this point.
BTW, you seem to be giggling and grave dancing about Tesla competition folding up. Tesla needs that competition and the globe needs high quality EVs at prices regular people can afford.
Pro tip, regular people can't afford a Tesla.
According to Consumer Reports, Tesla Model S already has higher reliability than the flagship sedans from Mercedes, BMW and Audi (S-series, 7-series, A8). This has not yet sunk in with the buying public but it soon will. Tesla is still a young company and Model S reliability is rapidly improving, so it is very likely it will continue to put distance on the German rivals over the next few years.
Given the challenges with any first year model it is not clear the same will be true in Year 1 for the Model 3, but given the inherent reliability advantages of EVs due to fewer moving parts, it is highly likely that the Model 3's reliability will quickly surpass that of comparable German cars.
Combined with less responsive performance and higher fuel costs, German (and other) ICE cars will quickly feel and be obsolete in comparison. The buying public seems to already get this and that's one reason we have ~500,000 reservations for the Model 3, while sales of the German ICE sedans are dropping.
Slightly misaligned panels, etc. in some early production vehicles will be a small tempest in a teapot, and it will be totally irrelevant in the long run IMO. Even Sacconaghi seems to know this and all but says so in his "review."
Krugerrand
Meow
This isn’t a discussion about what people dream about owning or what they think they want to own. So do try and stay on topic.
And out of curiosity, which car publication has the highest readership and what is that readership figure. If it’s not in the 100’s of Millions then...yeah, what I said.
What you said is that people are too stupid too compare or just not keen to get the best bang for their buck which is just absolutely ridiculous....
The little bubble you're talking out of must be very special if people don't even take a second look at very expensive purchases there.....
Last edited:
I can't speak for all Europe but for France at least, I see very few EVs (I see way more in California), and nearly half of all vehicle sales are diesel.
The diesel lobby is to Europe what the military industrial complex is to America. It's gonna a lot to take it down.
