First Impression: Not Happy

[Pollux]

Not necessarily. I got pictures of the actual car I bought (which was in Washington DC with Virginia plates) and could see that it was in excellent condition. It helped that it was low mileage and less than two years old, something I paid a bit extra for. The other car I was considering didn't have pictures available so I went with the one that did. The first time I saw the car was when it was delivered by transport truck to the tiny town nearest my remote home. I had never even sat in a Tesla, much less driven one before. It was in immaculate, near new, condition.

Given the experiences of the OP and some others, if I had it to do over again and was buying a CPO with significant miles on it, I think I'd ask to see the car before taking delivery. But refusing it would mean losing my deposit and the $1500 transport fee (if it came from a long way away) so it is still a gamble unless they could come up with a suitable replacement. At the very least, I'd ask for pictures; it shouldn't be that hard for the Tesla people to arrange.

Huh. So pictures are taken if you request them? Or sometimes are given to you anyway even though you didn't initiate a request? Does Tesla have any rules or guidelines for providing pictures of the actual car? Do you know if the pictures you saw were taken by the previous owner or by Tesla?

I'm a P85+ owner and sometimes think about a CPO for The Wife. Instead, I've reserved a couple of Model 3s, but the wait until they arrive causes me to constantly think about buying another new or CPO S.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Canuck]

same cast of characters in here giving you a hard time....its not shocking.

Please be honest. You must know that I'm part of the "cast of characters" that gave you "a hard time" in your thread:

To Elon Musk RE: My Former Model X

But I'm with the OP here. Some of us look at the facts, and the manner in which the OP comes across in presenting the facts, in order to assess credibility, and then form our opinions accordingly.

But nice try in painting us all with the same brush.

 

[GFORCED]

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

When I got my CPO, I got a folder and a list of all the things they did to the car as part of the CPO process. Did you get anything like that?

But there were things they checked that they did, but missed and subsquently made right too. The thing I missed was how pitted the windshield was, and still is. I did not notice it until I was driving west into the setting sun days later. I took the approach that I bought a $100K car for $50K with 49,000 miles on it. Tesla service has been great about a number of issues over the last 10 months and have paid nothing. So I really have no complaints.

The first 24 hours were tense though, noise issues, that were totaly solved by adjusting the rear hatch. As an aside, adjusting the hatch turned the thought that I had made the worst used car buying situation around to the best. Should they have caught it prior to delivery, Sure, but it got fixed in the first week.

I still have the pitted window and will replace it. But it is still not so bad that I would call it dangerous, but it is not clear.

I hope that you can get some results from Tesla, but a repaint is doubtful, as are new wheels. Maybe the front windshield if it is so bad that you could argue the safety issue.

Your only recourse may be to return it if possible, but I remember being told verbally and in writing that California has no cooling off period when signing automobile purchase agreements.

Tesla is walking a very fine line of trying offer a better buying experience, and at the same time make money. If they reconditioned CPOs to like new, then they would be priced much closer to that, and in some cases are. But, each service center seems to have a different metric to what that looks look like and how to achieve that.

Good luck.

 

[ecarfan]

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.

Please post the document here so we can all see it.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Huh. So pictures are taken if you request them? Or sometimes are given to you anyway even though you didn't initiate a request? Does Tesla have any rules or guidelines for providing pictures of the actual car? Do you know if the pictures you saw were taken by the previous owner or by Tesla?

I'm a P85+ owner and sometimes think about a CPO for The Wife. Instead, I've reserved a couple of Model 3s, but the wait until they arrive causes me to constantly think about buying another new or CPO S.

Thanks,
Alan

I was working with Brent Seavey, who is based in the Chicago area I believe, and handles used and inventory sales for the Midwest and Mountain regions. Without me asking, he sent me a half dozen pictures of one of the CPOs I said I was interested in and said that pictures of the other one (located in Boston) weren't available. It was clear that the pictures were taken of the car at the store or service center (probably DC since that was where the car was supposed to be located). The car hadn't been cleaned up at all (trash and old coffee cups in the interior); that was done after my purchase. Whether there is policy to to provide pictures, I couldn't say. But it couldn't hurt to ask.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.

Please send that document to me please. Also, could you take a picture from inside your car pointing towards the sun to see the pits. Your may be way worse than mine. I see and feel two or three of them, but otherwise it is really like the lightest of frosting.

 

[GFORCED]

The document appears to be an internal doc and I was asked not to publicly post. It states what I need it to state so I'm satisfied.

 

[GFORCED]

Please send that document to me please. Also, could you take a picture from inside your car pointing towards the sun to see the pits. Your may be way worse than mine. I see and feel two or three of them, but otherwise it is really like the lightest of frosting.

Camera Cruiser my iPhone camera cannot focus in on the sand pitted marks. There are thousands of them just like if you sand-blasted any paint. Your insurance very likely covers a new windshield for correcting your pitting problem as it is a hazard and in my case is a $100 deductible. Call your carrier to see if your covered. There are also different state laws. But I'm in LA so we're under the same law.

 

[Canuck]

The document appears to be an internal doc and I was asked not to publicly post. It states what I need it to state so I'm satisfied.

Hopefully, whoever sent it to you will read Camera-Cruiser's post and send him a copy too.

 

[GFORCED]

Hopefully, whoever sent it to you will read Camera-Cruiser's post and send him a copy too.

Yes, but he said its been 10 months. Doubtful Tesla has any liability, but an easy fix for $100 and an insurance claim.

 

[TaoJones]

And based on the discussion in this thread and others I have read on TMC, it's not clear to some people what that difference is. You say you "know the difference", so please explain what you think the difference is besides simply mileage as you state in your post upthread (and my request to the OP for the mileage of his CPO car continues to go unanswered). Also, please provide a Tesla Motors source that supports your explanation. If you can't provide a Tesla Motors source than you are simply offering your opinion.

I have searched online to try to find any statement from Tesla that defines what criteria the company uses to to determine is acceptable for the CPO cars they sell. I haven't found it yet, but recall reading somewhere some information that a TMC member received from Tesla regarding, for example, the maximum size of a stone chip allowed on a CPO car they were selling.

The CPO warranty doesn't seem to address the issue. See https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model-s-preowned-warranty.pdf

If you insist upon this pattern of being anal retentive with regard to what others post, then be all means, knock yourself out.

However, don't misquote what others post. I did not "say" "you" (meaning I) "know the difference". I typed "Know the difference...". There's a difference there. Not to belabor the point.

Here's the deal for anyone else who's missed the forest for the trees: All CPOs are by definition used cars - hence the term "pre-owned" implying titled/registered by some entity, but all used cars are not by definition CPO cars. CPO infers "Certified" which implies at minimum some sort of checklist of steps taken to ensure that the car is not crap.

To ecarfan's underlying concern, ostensibly, I have no idea who certifies the certifiers or if Tesla has taken the time to disclose their criteria - makes absolutely no difference to the prospective buyer in any case.

But I do know that a CPO car should not have what could be $20,000 worth of damage (see Maserati insurance claim above). It should not have makeup stains on the headliner. If it does, and if a company wants to sell it as CPO, then develop a policy that states something such as "exceptions noted". Even that's thin, since a car either qualifies or it doesn't, one would think.

There's another problem here, but it's a solvable one for now. Demand is so high for these cars, that you can't really blame a busy CPO hub for trying to move a blemished unit. But it may be time for a second category - PO, instead of CPO. Opens up a whole 'nother bag of tricks and it may be too soon. That said, would you feel more comfortable buying a higher-mileage (a poor delimiter but enough about that) or cosmetically blemished car from Tesla or from some one-off Ye Olde House of Used Chariots that wouldn't know an EV from a turnip?

It's a separate discussion, admittedly. For now, I'd be happy with better attention to detail and more disclosure up front from the CPO hubs. I'm glad people post these experiences so that Tesla can improve the owner and CPO-buying experience.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

But I do know that a CPO car should not have what could be $20,000 worth of damage (see Maserati insurance claim above). It should not have makeup stains on the headliner. If it does, and if a company wants to sell it as CPO, then develop a policy that states something such as "exceptions noted". Even that's thin, since a car either qualifies or it doesn't, one would think.

Yup. I would say that a CPO should not have this. I gave them a pass on the omitted windshield, but I consider mine minor. They dealt with everything else I asked them too. To be clear, I have never asked them to replace the windshield.

I hope the OP can get it fixed, or returned. It's gut wrenching to have the car you want, but not the way you wanted it, or should have received it.

Moving this forward, if the OP decides to keep it, the paint could take a month or more based on all the body shop delays we've all read about here. So, will they provide a loaner?

 

[GFORCED]

Yes camera cruiser they will provide a loaner. I did get an email after delivery from our advisor that they will take the car back and fix it. All good and thanks for your comments and concern!

 

[Az_Rael]

I think the problem is that you don't get to see photos of the actual car on the website like you would any other used car. Sometimes Tesla prices are odd as well, where you might see two of what appears to be very similar cars (options, VIN range, mileage) and one is listed for several thousand less than the other. Is the cheaper car in worse shape?

You also don't have time to request photos of well priced cars before they are sold sometimes. I have seen cars appear and be sold in just a few hours. So as a buyer, you get to feeling like when your car pops up, you have to immediately jump on it and trust Tesla will take care of the rest. Sure, you can always back out upon seeing the vehicle in person, but I doubt you'll get the shipping costs back, so it's a risk.


I wish Tesla posted photos like Carmax does. I have confidently bought a vehicle from across the country from Carmax, and when it arrived, it was exactly like the photos. I suppose since Teslas CPO fleet are loaners, though, they might not be able to maintain photos.

OP: please keep us posted if Tesla makes it right. It will help out those of us still in the process.

 

[GFORCED]

I will keep you posted Az-Rael. And I agree with your comment. The process is not quite transparent, but I think my encounter is a rare one. I was lucky to catch the flawed paint. When they drove it into the sunlight, only then was it really obvious to everyone.

 

[Skione65]

Sand damage cannot be buffed out. It needs new paint. I have had this same situation before which is probably why I noticed it.

Ecarfan the mileage is 36K and the car is a 2014. I do agree with you that it states in the CPO guide that no paint scratch should be longer than 1/4 inch. But it is not specifying anything about sand damage. Any insurance company will repair sand/wind damage as an "act of God" and it is not that big of a deal. I'm just asking Tesla to make it right. I'm not going to respond to semantics about the difference about used or CPO. Had I walked into a used car lot to buy a used Tesla and pointed out sand damage, the salesman would either fix the damage or I wouldn't buy the car and leave.

In this case I expected a CPO reconditioned car that was at the reconditioning center for 4 days and upon delivery received a car with damaged paint.

@GFORCED,

You may have mentioned up thread but don't recall seeing it.....where did this CPO come from (originate)? Not Pickup SC but originate?

Ski

 

[dhanson865]

ecarfan, my insurance has paid a claim on this exact same condition as "damage" before. So, to expect a decent paint job from a CPO car is not out of the ordinary from any manufacturer. Odometer reading has no relevancy as CPO is the same for any mileage car. Read Kelly Blue Book on how cars condition are rated. A CPO car should be in Excellent Condition. The car I have is in Fair Condition.

How Kelley Blue Book Works

• Excellent condition means that the vehicle looks new, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. This vehicle has never had any paint or body work and is free of rust. The vehicle has a clean Title History and will pass a smog and safety inspection. The vehicle also has complete and verifiable service records. Less than 5 percent of all used vehicles fall into this category.
• Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.
• Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.

I agree with most of what you say in this thread (that you deserve a car that was checked out and refurbished were needed) but by definition there is no way a CPO will meet that "excellent condition" which requires "This vehicle has never had any paint or body work". As soon as they do one repair for a minor blemish it has had some paint work.

I'd argue there needs to be a Very Good in between Excellent and Good in that list and that CPOs should be Very Good at a minimum but if the categories can't be modified that you should expect Good and only Good out of a CPO. There just isn't enough leeway in that definition of Excellent for a CPO to fit in there most of the time.

 

[Skione65]

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.

@GFORCED,

Can a link to that document or the Document for that be posted as a courtesy for me? I'm looking at CPOs and might need it.

Ski

 

[Alketi]

@GFORCED,

You may have mentioned up thread but don't recall seeing it.....where did this CPO come from (originate)? Not Pickup SC but originate?

Ski

I'm going to bet that's a northern climate car with a decent amount of highway driving. That sort of pitting, especially on the headlight covers is a symptom of winter highway driving on sanded roads. If I showed you a picture of my Audi A4 headlight covers, you'd wonder how any light is escaping.