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First L3 Self Driving Car - Audi A8 world premieres in Barcelona

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Well I'll admit I'm surprised.

Let's recapitulate:
Today's news kind of ruins this, doesn't it? Or are the journalists wrong? WTF is going on?

I'm not sure if @Bladerskb was misleading there, and frankly that is not something I want to litigate anyway... :) But for me, it was obvious the Level 3 system would not come in 2017 to the consumers hands. We'd see it, they'd launch it, sure, which we did, and the new Audi A8 would launch in 2017 as well.

But we have been waiting for the Level 3 legal framework - right?

In Germany it is not there yet and that is the place where the car comes out first. That is not a surprise. In U.S. it is in some states there are laws, but we were not expecting the new Audi A8 in the U.S. until latter half of 2018 anyway earliest as things normally take time to reach the U.S. (if they can launch the feature there, I don't know).

Now, I do grant Audi is again being very conservative. If they'd wanted to make a bigger splash, they'd gone the software upgrade route and released the hardware (which by all accounts mostly seems to be here, Lidar included) Elon style and software later. :D
 
There is no legal framework required. L3 can operate as faux L2. This is really limited L3 (if its even L3 at all because that video indicates, to me, that the engineer believed there was no casual handoff period). Therefore the "regulations don't allow it" argument is a myth. Nothing prevents L3 in the US currently. NHSTA has not barred cars. Local municipalities allow it (see GA and other states that fully allow all levels of autonomy). So its really the same as Tesla -- it isn't ready and it was all hype. I see little difference.
 
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There is no legal framework required. L3 can operate as faux L2. This is really limited L3 (if its even L3 at all because that video indicates, to me, that the engineer believed there was no casual handoff period).

Of course it can. Who knows what Audi's approach to software updates will be. But they've stated they plan to release the feature as autonomous. If that plan sticks, that needs legislation. Whether in some markets they release other variants we shall see. In Germany I believe they are waiting for the legislation.

The car of course also has Audi's Level 2 assistance from the start - using Lidar, radar and EyeQ3...

Therefore the "regulations don't allow it" argument is a myth. Nothing prevents L3 in the US currently. NHSTA has not barred cars. Local municipalities allow it (see GA and other states that fully allow all levels of autonomy). So its really the same as Tesla -- it isn't ready and it was all hype. I see little difference.

As said, Audi releases cars around 1 year later in the U.S. compared to Germany. We shall see what happens then. If someone expected a new U.S. Audi A8 in 2017, they were badly mistaken.
 
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Neat.

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First set of reviews of A8 are coming out. The road monitoring suspension seems really impressive (demonstrated at 3:40 in the video).

Looks like it doesn't need two vehicles on either side to park, only parking lines. Making it the most impressive parking system out there.
Beating Tesla to the punch. Tesla EAP is supposed to come with 'self park', which is what the A8 looks to be doing in that video.

The Audi A8 truly is a technological marvel.
 
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The active suspension seems very similar to the Bose suspension demonstration that was shown several years ago. Much better than current Mercedes Magic Body Control though I’m sure the next S-Class in 2020 will have an updated active suspension.

In addition to safety benefit in a situation like this, this suspension should tremendously increase comfort in day to day driving. This car with active suspension should nearly eliminate pitch and lift and roll etc from most potholes, bumps, divots and such road imperfections and keep the car flat almost all of the time.

Super impressive.
 
Yeah, this thread is painfully reminding me why I just love a new Audi A8 / S Class / 7 Series launch and everything it stands for.

Damn you Tesla for ruining that all with a trick drivetrain. :D

But that is a goergeous car, inside and outside, and features-wise.
 
Well I'll admit I'm surprised.

Let's recapitulate:
Today's news kind of ruins this, doesn't it? Or are the journalists wrong? WTF is going on?
Actually I already pointed it out long ago that it wasn't launching this year. For the journalists who attended the launch event, they suggested that it wasn't launching yet until 2019.
From the articles, system isn't coming/activated until 2019, so someone else might still be able to beat them to it, if that remains true.
Nope, that's not where people are quoting from. Some of the journalists attended the Barcelona event, where Audi said level 3 won't be available until 2019.
Here's another report that said the same thing:
"Audi will be releasing more details on their extensive range of new driving assistance systems next year, when the model will hit the market. The level 3 traffic jam assist won’t be available until 2019."
Official: 2019 Audi A8 - Our First Impression - GTspirit

That goes back to the point I made with @Bladerskb about how until they actually sell vehicles equipped with the option, the claims of being first don't really apply (and why I don't value development news as highly as a metric because of stuff like this where the timelines are misinterpreted or sometimes changed).
...But I don't believe Audi sold any cars yet equipped with the L3 option, so we still have to wait for that to happen first, before they can claim first on that.

Again, your point is not proven until a manufacturer actually does release and sell such a car. You post a lot about development, and that is appreciated, but the point is not made until the vehicle is actually sold to a consumer. Last minute delays does happen (for example Supercruise was announced in 2012, was poised to release 2016, but delayed until this year and still not out yet).

@AnxietyRanger, I would also like to point out that Audi did not go around and correct the misinterpretation of Audi's timeline by the media. You have previously suggested that Tesla had a obligation to do so, but in this case Audi didn't do so either. As I said, I don't see manufacturers doing this.
 
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@AnxietyRanger, I would also like to point out that Audi did not go around and correct the misinterpretation of Audi's timeline by the media. You have previously suggested that Tesla had a obligation to do so, but in this case Audi didn't do so either. As I said, I don't see manufacturers doing this.

I don't agree the situations are comparable at all. There was never a widespread suggestion in the press of any numeric timeline for the Level 3 feature, let alone 2017, unlike there was for example quoting Tesla for Level 5 capable of P85D's hp or...

If there was a figure in the press before, it was the 2018 year. I have not seen anywhere the suggestion that one could buy a Level 3 Audi in 2017 and I certainly did not expect that.

Besides, nothing was/is being pre-sold to customers. Sales opened now and Audi is very open what you can buy today and what you can buy only later. Again a marked departure from Tesla who keeps changes secret or pre-sells forward-looking updates in a potentially misleading manner.

As for the actual Audi timeline, we shall see. Audi has always said Level 3 feature depends on legislation and may come out in different forms in different markets. Laws allowing, I think week 22-23/2018 onwards is probably the earliest they'll start building it.

If Audi fails to bring the system to market in 2018, I will consider that a failure on them. I think 2018 has been thrown around by them enough for that.
 
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Another new review up, this time from engadget.

So what's it like to drive the Audi A8 while using all this tech? In a word, overwhelming. Prior to each trip, I had an Audi engineer leaning into the car, carefully explaining all the features. As I mentioned, I was often unsure which cruise control or active drive mode was engaged, as there is a lot of info on those screens. With more time on the car, I'm sure I'd get used to it, but I found it slightly distracting.

I love technology, so it pains me to say that the Audi A8 almost has too much of it. The active driving assist, AI electromechanical suspension and self-parking features rely on brand-new and complex systems that are, by their nature, prone to bugs and breakdowns. At times, it also felt overly gadgety, with a few too many potential driving distractions.

<snip>

Audi didn't show off the Level 3 "traffic jam pilot" in Valencia, and that feature is perhaps the best example of how Audi is really pushing it far on the tech. It's essentially a more advanced version of the adaptive cruise assist that works at speeds from zero to 37 mph, letting you do other things like watch a movie, though you need to be ready to grab back control. Given all the infotainment options on hand, that feature could become popular in traffic jam-prone areas.

However, you must stay in one lane, and it requires clear markings and a center barrier separating you from oncoming traffic. Even if all of those conditions are met, Audi notes that it requires "both clarity regarding the legal parameters for each country and specific adaptation and testing of the system." In other words, Audi has no control over when it will be legally allowed to activate the system, but it could be quite a while after you buy the A8.

Author clearly given the impression that Traffic Jam Pilot can be activated after purchase, oops.

Video is worth watching as well, can't embed unfortunately.
 
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I'm really disappointed in Audi. That they didn't release partial of their software as ADAS. instead the Audi A8 only has ACC and stupid lane departure warning.

They could have easily had the best single lane full speed highway adas.

However I'm proud of Nissan, they might be the first automaker (might even beat Tesla and Audi) to release software based on their SDC resources.

Their L2/L3 system in 2018 will be based on their SDC software and utilize eyeQ4 (8 cameras, multiple radars and lidars) and will use a complete REM map of japan highways built by mobileye and Zenrin
 
I'm really disappointed in Audi. That they didn't release partial of their software as ADAS. instead the Audi A8 only has ACC and stupid lane departure warning.

Sure, would be nice. I never really expected Audi to, though. As you said, they are following the Traffic Jam Assit to Pilot to Highway Pilot strategy... Seems to me they are aiming for Level 3 first and Level 4 then. We shall see if market pressure changes their mind about that.

By the way, have you checked exact lane departure features Audi A8 offers in its standard Assistenzpaket Tour?
 
Here is a Google Translate of most of the main driver's aids in the new Audi A8 for the 2017 orderable model in Germany - without the Pilots of course:

Assistance package tour (standard)

The Tour assistance package includes a selection of assistance systems that can enhance safety and driving comfort, especially on long-distance and on-country trips:

Adaptive driving assistant

The adaptive driving assistant offers comfortable driving in the speed range from 0 to a maximum of 250 km / h, as well as in traffic situations. It supports the driver during acceleration, braking, holding speed and distance as well as tracking. The adaptive driving assistant consists of the adaptive speed assistant and the tracking assistant.

The adaptive speed assistant supports the driver by regulating the set speed and distance to the front vehicle. If a preceding vehicle is detected, the adaptive driving assistant can brake or accelerate the vehicle within the system limits. Even in stop-and-go traffic and in traffic situations, the system decelerates to a standstill and can start again automatically, depending on the duration of the standstill. In bottlenecks, the driving speed is adapted to the traffic, so that an offset driving becomes possible, for example, in construction sites.

According to the driver's request, the tracking function can be activated. The system recognizes lane markings, edge structures, vehicles on secondary lanes as well as several preceding vehicles. With a supportive steering intervention, the system helps to guide the vehicle permanently in the track center. At the same time, the set speed is kept constant and the system reacts to preceding vehicles with a distance control.

overspeed

The included speed limiter helps not to exceed a previously set maximum speed during manual driving. The speed limiter operation can be temporarily deactivated by means of a kick-down and the set maximum speed can be exceeded. The function is available from approx. 30 km / h.

efficiency assistant

The efficiency assistant supports the driver in driving and fuel-efficient driving. In conjunction with the MMI Navigation plus with MMI touch response, the adaptive driver uses the data from the efficiency assistant for an adaptive control of the speed even without a preceding vehicle. For this purpose, the system uses the information on curve radii, local inputs and speed limits that are stored in the navigation data. The system is supported by the information of the cam-based traffic sign detection. The efficiency assistant also controls engine thrust and sail phases in a targeted manner and thus promotes a fuel-saving drive system for the adaptive vehicle assistant and the speed control system. Notes on efficient driving via the display in the Audi virtual cockpit or via the haptic accelerator pedal

avoidance assistant

The escape assistant helps the driver in a critical situation to steer the vehicle around an obstacle. For this purpose, the system uses the data from laser scanners, radar sensors and front camera. If the driver actively avoids an obstacle after an acute warning, the assist assistant assists him by specifically braking the wheels and applying a small steering torque during the correction of the steering lock. The escape assistant is available in the speed range between approx. 30 and 150 km / h and assumes that the driver actively steers during the entire maneuver.

Blind Spot

The turn-off assistant can prevent the vehicle from colliding with an opposing vehicle during a left turn during start-up operations or during slow driving up to a speed of 10 km / h. As soon as the driver sets the turn signal, the turn-off assistant monitors the opposite track. For this purpose, the system uses the data from laser scanners, radar sensors and front camera.

Assistance package city (optional, 1400 eur)

intersection assistant

The crossover assistant can warn the driver in complex crossing situations before a detected approaching lateral traffic. The system monitors the front and side vehicle surroundings at crossroads and exits by means of the sensors installed in the vehicle. The system can also assist the driver in hard-to-reach intersections and exits and warn against possible collisions with approaching lateral traffic. A multi-stage warning concept consisting of a first optical and acoustic warning is initiated in critical situations. If the driver does not react to this, a warning braking brake follows. The system operates in the speed range up to 30 km / h, brake pressures are carried out up to 10 km / h.

Lane Change Warning

The lane change warning helps the driver monitor the blind spot and traffic behind the vehicle. The system measures the distance as well as the speed difference from vehicles approaching the rear of the vehicle or from the rear. When a situation is recognized as critical for a lane change, a warning is indicated by LED indicators on the respective outside mirror. In connection with the wheel alignment warning, a corrective steering intervention takes place in critical situations. The system can also warn of critical objects within the system limits during turn operations.

exit warning

The exit warning warns of a possible collision with traffic coming from behind when the vehicle is opened. The system monitors the rear and side vehicle surroundings. Recognized objects coming from behind, such as, for example, For example, cars. When the door release lever is pulled and a critical occupant of the road is seized, the warning light in the door and the LED on the exterior mirror on the affected side light up. At the same time, the door opening is briefly delayed.

Rear support rear


The rear-end collision assistance system can warn of a possible collision with approaching lateral traffic when reversing up to 10 km / h. The system monitors the rear and side vehicle surroundings during parking. Detecting objects, such as, For example, cars. The system informs the driver visually and can also warn in the case of reversing in situations which have been recognized as particularly critical by an acoustic signal and by a brake pressure.

Audi pre sense rear

Audi pre sense rear monitors the following traffic. If a collision risk of the following vehicle is detected, the prefective protection measures of the pre sense basic are initiated.

Others standard or optional

Audi pre sense basic

Audi pre sense basic guides you in critical driving situations such as emergency and hazard braking or vehicle dynamics.
measures for preventive protection. These include: tightening the front and outer safety belts in the rear, optimization of the seat position, initiation of the closing process of the windows and the panoramic glass roof (if with ordered) as well as high-frequency triggering of the hazard warning system to warn other road users.

Audi pre sense front

At Audi pre sense front, preventive safeguards are activated in the event of an imminent frontal collision. The system uses the data from the front camera and can warn against impending collisions, depending on the situation and speed and initiate appropriate braking. The system is active at a speed of approx. 5 km / h. Pedestrians and Cyclists can be recognized in the range up to approx. 85 km / h and vehicles in the range up to 250 km / h. If an imminent front collision is detected, the system warns the driver in a multi-stage concept optically, acoustically and haptically. If necessary, a braking force assist or a full deceleration can be initiated in order to reduce the speed or avoid the collision under certain circumstances.

parking assistant

The parking assistant assists with parking and steering. By means of ultrasonic sensors, th transverse and longitudinal track gaps. For transverse parking gaps (forward and backward), the ideal parking space, for The ideal parking and take-off path is calculated for the length of the track. The steering process is adopted by the system. The driver must only be changed according to the instructions in the display, accelerate, brake and park the vehicle. chen. The visual display can, depending on the steering angle, by showing the lane in front of obstacles to warn. Multi-train parking is supported.

environment cameras

4 wide-angle environmental cameras cover the entire area directly around the vehicle and allow a variety of different views for even more comfortable maneuvering:
• over the top touchscreen infinitely swivel and zoomable exterior view of the virtual vehicle and the vehicle environment
• Bird perspective: The images of the 4 cameras are combined to a virtual view from above. The image section can be continuously scaled and moved, thus enabling more precise maneuvering and positioning of the vehicle.
• View of the front or rear wheels allows better visibility when approaching a curb.
• Reversing camera view: with auxiliary elements for transverse parking as well as coupling of trailers
• Front camera view: embedded guide lines facilitate maneuvering and viewing obstacles in front of the vehicle.
• Panoramic view in front and rear: The view of nearly 180 ° allows a more comfortable exit from narrow parking spaces, farmyards or unclear intersections.

Camera-based traffic detection

detected traffic signs - such as overtaking bans and speed limits - are displayed in the instrument cluster. The system detects temporary speed limits (eg via motorways), the start and the end of motorways, motorways, localities and traffic-restricted areas, and displays the associated speed limit. In addition, a situation-dependent display and evaluation is carried out in case of wetness, speed limits dependent on the daytime and in trailer operation. The display shows the Audi virtual cockpit or the optional head-up display. In addition, a warning can be issued if the detected speed range is exceeded. If a traffic sign is outside the field of view of the camera, it is made available from the stored navigation data of the MMI navigation.

Lane Departure Warning

helps to avoid unintended leaving the lane. If the driver has not set a turn signal, the lane departure warning helps by means of corrective steering intervention to avoid crossing over recognized lane limits. An additional steering wheel vibration is adjustable on the driver's request. Functional range from approx. 60 up to a maximum of 250 km

emergency assistant

The emergency assistant detects when the driver is inactive. In such cases, he warns the driver visually, acoustically and haptically. If no reaction occurs, the system takes over the guidance of the vehicle and automatically stops it in its own lane. Audi pre-sense protection measures are activated and the vehicle is prepared for the rescue of the occupants. If available, an automatic emergency call is activated.

Night vision assistant


The night vision assistant improves difficult visibility in the dark by electronically visualizing the road surface. The system supports the driver at night time by displaying a thermal image of the environment. Recognized persons and larger wild animals are marked in the Audi virtual cockpit yellow. If a possible danger is determined from its movement and position, the marking changes to red, a warning triangle appears and an acoustic warning is sounded. A marked person is additionally briefly illuminated by the headlight 3 times. Display of warnings also in the optional head-up display
 
Here is a good English, up-to-date summary of all different Assists and Pilots in Audis:

Driver assistance systems

Here is specifically of the Audi A8, very informative of the Traffic Jam Pilot and Audi Parking and Garage Pilots:

Audi AI and driver assistance systems
Backing up these new high-end systems is the central driver assistance controller (zFAS), which is making its debut in the new A8. About the size of a tablet, it continually merges the signals from all sensors into a differentiated model of the surroundings through its high-powered processors. Fully equipped, the new A8 has 24 sensors:
  • twelve ultrasonic sensors on the front, sides and rear,
  • four 360-degree cameras on the front, rear and exterior mirrors,
  • one front camera on the top edge of the windscreen,
  • four mid-range radar sensors at the vehicle’s corners,
  • one long-range radar sensor on the front,
  • one laser scanner on the front,
  • one infrared camera (night vision assist) on the front.

There is also a comment on the Traffic Jam Pilot introduction:
Introduction of the Audi AI traffic jam pilot requires both clarity regarding the legal parameters for each country and specific adaptation and testing of the system. Moreover, varying worldwide homologation procedures and their deadlines must be observed. For these reasons, Audi will initiate series production of the traffic jam pilot in the new A8 incrementally, depending on the legal situation in the respective country.
 
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Those above are what is happening on the zFAS that is soon shipping with the Audi A8. Here is a bit about what to expect of the next zFAS version. The Audi Highway Pilot (60 to 130 kph driving with automated lane changes) and the Audi AI Zone (autonomous parking in a multi-story):

Audi Elaine concept car

It also details some other interesting things Audi is working on regarding driver comfort, monitoring and assistance.

I think this is a pretty comprehensive picture of what to expect from Audi's driver assistants up to 2019 - as far as the "competition watch" goes. Many of these will probably appear on the Audi e-tron quattro, similar to Audi A8, I'd guess in its second model year, if not the first...
 
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