TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

First look at the Supercharger?

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by GHmagic6, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. GHmagic6

    GHmagic6 Sig #610

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    This was from the Supercharger event invite sent out today. Possibly what it'll look like?

    Original Image:
    hero_700_564.png

    Leveled Image:
    Supercharger Levels.png
     
  2. gjamrok

    gjamrok Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Culver City, CA
  3. dadaleus

    dadaleus 4GETOIL P85#S70,FdrX,S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    884
    Location:
    Solana Beach, California, United States
    What city is the event going to be in?
     
  4. clmason

    clmason Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    401
    Location:
    San Diego
    Looks like a solar roofed carport.
     
  5. dflye

    dflye S Sig Perf 414, VIN 814

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Hmm, maybe Elon has solved the implementation of Nikola Tesla's wireless power distribution system? :wink:

    Massive solar grid somewhere in the SW, broadcast the power to Supercharger stations around the country by day, store the energy locally for later use. :cool:

    Since I can't see one tiny solar array over a few parking spots generating enough power (even with local energy storage) to support more than the infrequent charge of a Model S for most parts of the country. :confused:
     
  6. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    This is the part I'm curious about as well. The chargers won't be used much, so they can store up energy for infrequent usage, but what happens on a busy driving weekend like Thanksgiving? It's that peak demand I'm really curious how they'll support.
     
  7. Tesla 940

    Tesla 940 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    254
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA & Taos, NM
    Hawthorne - same place as the Model X unveiling.
     
  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Who did they invite?
     
  9. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    If the solar panel charged an under ground mounted Model S battery or two then that buffer could keep the output clean.

    Power would come form the site host's grid connection if the batteries are drained and it's night. During the day if the battery is topped off then excess solar power can give the site owner (Tesla?) a payback on power used.



    ...
     
  10. stinnett_P813

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    Ladera Ranch, CA

    Seems like SoCal reservation holders were invited.
     
  11. Tesla 940

    Tesla 940 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    254
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA & Taos, NM
    Roadster owner withOUT any other reservation.
     
  12. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,498
    Location:
    Maine
    Now owners everywhere can refer to their carports as a "super".
     
  13. Chas F

    Chas F Model S 60kWh #P6396

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    That's easy. They'll be grid-tied to cover heavy usage days. Overall, the extra cost would me minimal if any.
     
  14. Lyon

    Lyon 2016 S P100DL, 2016 X P90D

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,988
    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    #14 Lyon, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
    This may be a silly question (i.e. answered somewhere else or already common knowledge) but when is this event taking place?


    -edit-

    never mind, I found the information. I guess I just wasn't paying attention that day.
     
  15. olanmills

    olanmills Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    341
    Yeah, I think assuming that it does have solar panels, it's safe to assume that it is also connected to grid power so that charging capacity is never an issue (unless there's an outage and there's not enough sunlight, of course). I would also assume that it has batteries/capacitors to store excess solar energy, and yes, as vfx suggested, returned additional excess solar power back into the grid.

    It looks cool.
     
  16. Joel

    Joel Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    Michigan
    Were did you find/receive those images?
     
  17. wstuff

    wstuff Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    florida
    This is way too technical for me but could these super charger locations have lithium ion battery packs stored in the support structure and be charged up by grid ,and then the grid usage be mitigated by the solar cells on the roof. Would these lithium ion cells be capable of acting like a capacitor to fast charge a model S and possibly be the understanding in certain interviews of ( battery swapping). I still can't see the reality of actually having someone or thing remove your battery pack and reinstall another? I still have trouble screwing in a lightbulb so I need some help here from the electrical knowledge base.
     
  18. olanmills

    olanmills Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    341
    @wstuff I don't think anyone expects battery swapping as it would be a pretty big logistical problem without much demand right now, and I don't think it's all that necessary. For battery swapping, Tesla would need to make available a large surplus of batteries and a network to ship them around to where they are needed (for instance, some locations are sure to be more heavy for depleted battery drop-off than others). Then there is also this issue of battery ownership. Since the battery performance degrades over time, swapping batteries means you could get batteries that are in better or worse condition than you previously had.

    I do think that sometime in the future, if there were a lot more EV's on the road, there were more standards, and 3rd party companies supplying products and infrastructure, then maybe in that kind of mature EV industry environment, battery swapping would make more sense, but to be honest, if capacity and charging technology keeps improving, battery swapping probably won't be that valuable.

    As for your other questions about charging. It would make sense if the charging station stored excess energy in batteries, but it wouldn't make sense to charge them from grid power. It would make sense if the batteries were charged via solar cells. When cars come up to use the charger, if there is enough energy available in the station's batteries, the energy is taken from there, otherwise, it will come straight from the power grid. It wouldn't make sense to charge batteries from the power grid since some energy would be lost in the transfer to and from the battery, and the grid power is (ideally) available 24/7 and it's NOT going to waste if you're not using it. i.e., grid power that the station is not using is power that the power plant doesn't need to generate.

    Solar power on the other hand, is always beating down on the station during the day, whether it's being used or not. So you might as well capture it and save as much as you can into batteries, otherwise, it will just not be used by anything and go to waste (well it does warm our earth and power our eco system and make possible the glorious miracle of life, but that aside...).
     
  19. spleen

    spleen Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Actually it does make some sense to charge batteries using grid power because of demand charges. If the electrical utility has demand charges and peak usage charges, it would make sense to charge the batteries off grid power during off peak hours.
     
  20. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,251
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Depending on time-of-use rate structures, the "station" could actually make money from the grid:
    #1: Recharge the battery at night with cheap rates.
    #2: Send power back to the grid during the day when the utility pays more for the power.
    During the day, this power could be coming both from the battery and from the solar cells.

    Of course if they knew a model S was on the way, intending to charge, they would store up the power in the battery ready to quick charge the model S instead of selling it back to the grid.
     

Share This Page