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First Post - Help me decide X vs SQ7 vs Range Rover Sport

Discussion in 'Model X' started by MrAliG, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    I have been reading the forum for a long time and this is my first post.

    I test drove a model S 18 months ago and loved the smoothness of an ICE free car, but I like the space of an SUV and so I placed a reservation for a model X.

    I live in the UK and now we are able to order an X, my current car a current shape Range Rover Sport HSE Dynamic V6 Diesel will be three years old in January. It has so far only lost an impressive 30% of its value and so I feel I should trade it in. Particularly I am looking for something with more space. The third row seats are tiny in the Range Rover and my daughter is getting older. Despite having only one child, we use 6 or 7 seats roughly once a week.

    I continue to have reservations around the lack of folding second row seats in the X. My wife says we rarely use them, but I estimate we use them 4 or 5 times a year for trips to the dump, buying a large TV etc.

    Today I test drove a Q7 3.0D and an XC90 T8. I instantly discounted the XC90 which felt like a considerably cheaper car. The Q7 was nice, it has a lot more space than the Range Rover and was similarly quiet and comfortable, however, it maybe handled a little less well.

    Does anyone have experience of either the Range Rover Sport or Q7 as well as the X? There are still no Xs to drive in the UK, I have sat in one which was nicer than I expected. I have an invite to see one again August, it is not clear if I will be able to drive one then.

    I fell very spoiled by the Range Rover Sport, it has a beautiful interior and a lovely solid feeling to drive. I had 2 X5s prior to it and it is a much better car, but it should be as it is more expensive. It is simply lacking in space. Perhaps I will just put off changing. Usually my next car "speaks to me" and I just know what I will get. I am not sure I have that feeling at the moment.

    Currently I am considering the X 60D and the Audi SQ7. They will both cost me somewhere between £70000 and £75000 depending on Spec. The SQ is as fast as a X 90D. We only do around 6,000 miles a year so fuel consumption isn't really an issue. The main cost of ownership is going to be depreciation and I am a little concerned about this on the X which is why I am leaning towards the 60D. It is still somewhat faster than the Range Rover anyway.

    I would be really interested if someone has feedback on how the X feels to drive versus some of these cars as well as how noisy it is particularly in terms of road and suspension noise. I would probably stick to 20 inch wheels.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. larmor

    larmor Member

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    I recently test drove a MX P90 and compared it with our GL550--which has big low profile tires. MX rides same if not better than the GL. MC ride is super quiet, I drove around without the radio. Previously got a 550 GL over the 450 GL due to improved passing power, sometimes needed on SoCal freeways. No problem with MX.

    An aside regarding tesla depreciation, which many of you all ready know, had a friend with who had a sig MS for three years, after 70k miles, sold it for $75k and re ordered another MS.
     
  3. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    Thanks, the comments on the ride are encouraging.

    I haven't driven the facelifted GL but did drive it and the R-Class before getting the Range Rover Sport and it felt a very very old fashioned car then way behind my X5 and I fell my current car is better than that. The GL really puts space ahead of everything else. I have seen very few people comment who have had Range Rover Sport to compare, the closets seems to be Cayenne owners who seem to like the X. I do put quite a high weight on the handling. I test drove the previous Q7 which was too heavy and would never have considered a Range Rover before the move to the new lighter aluminium chasis. Even the new full fat Range Rover feels like you are driving a boat.
     
  4. Pandamoanium

    Pandamoanium Member

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    I think I can help.

    Here's the list of cars I've owned as well as ones I drive at least once a month due to it being in my family, I feel as though they are at least on par in terms or price or category. I have others which are more like a CUV and such:

    2009 MB GL450 4MATIC (Sold)
    2013 Lexus LX570 (Current)
    2014 Audi Q7 Prestige (Mine - Sold)
    2016 Range Rover Sport SCV8 (Mine - Current)

    I think the best comparison will be the Q7 and the RRS only because they are newer and more close in terms of what you're asking.

    1. 2nd row seats not folding is not an issue. 4-5 times a year to dump or buy a large TV/items, get it delivered or have someone pick it up for trash. Saves you time and a headache. After all, people buying these cars shouldn't be pitching pennies IMHO because they're forced to. We thought the same and wondered if we would miss it or be upset if the 5 seat has them, but ultimately it doesn't matter. Most of the interiors of cars now a days seem to be too nice/pretty to mess up.

    2. Space is limited in the RRS, the Q7 beats this by a long shot, the MB even more! The Model X space is alright, not amazing but for us is enough. The two heights is nice, and it's pretty deep to be honest. Once the third row gets folded down we have quite a decent amount of space. Not to mention the frunk. I think overall the space is either even or more, depending on how you organize things. We have one girl currently under two and another on the way, we don't think we will be using the third row much and will have it down most of the time, we opted for the six seat configuration to maximize space for them in the back and to have that valuable floor space.

    3. Driving dynamics for an EV are good, nothing that really made me impressed but overall I enjoyed the drive. I went on two test drives before getting my order in. Performance is better than the Q7, not sure about an SQ7 but it was better for sure. Now here's where things go in favor of other SUVs. The RRS performance wise for me blows the Model X away. I'm still a bit old fashioned and the exhaust note is invigorating. The handling in tight corners and mean acceleration is even if not better than the X. Let's not even get into performance off roading! Granted, there's no information on off roading but I highly doubt the Model X can do what the RRS can do. If someone proves me wrong I'll be impressed for sure. It also comes down to tires and clearance, after all, the torque must be continuous and low. The RR Autobiography has a setting that drives for you while you control the wheel which is pretty nifty. Now, while it seems like I'm bashing the Model X, when I drove it, it fit my needs for day to day driving, and my wife enjoyed it. This is the big part, I gun it and take tight turns when I'm alone and only alone, never with the family or another person in the car. This happens maybe 5% of my week if anything at that. Acceleration is still great and the torque throws you into the seat. For me the only compromise is the cornering which really is pretty damn good also.

    4. Luxury is something that's from person to person. If you think about it though, USA luxury versus European luxury is very very VERY different. Materials and layout is night and day. Look at US cars which have a luxury option and pricing when compared to a standard MB E class. For me, every single American car I've been in that boast luxury is at most better than average. My CLS550 is luxurious, my RRS is luxurious and even our a bit older Lexus IS is luxurious, the Model X for me, is actually pretty damn good. I'll admit I'm an internal snob. I enjoy the finer things in life and enjoy my high end items. The Model X is not going to be as nice as the European counter parts, but I think it's because the ideas of luxury is different. When sitting in the cabin of the PUP and having everything upgraded, it was nice and comfortable, nothing came off as cheap to me like some of the new C classes but most importantly nothing made me feel like it was bad. Meaning I got in, liked it and moved on. Luxury in a car is nice, but it only lasts so long.

    Final points are that the Model X is still new but it does a good job at being competitive, gives a very good performance in all categories and is unique. The fuel savings for me and people in situations like mine are the ones that benefit. I'm going from around $3,500.00 in gas per year to maybe $400.00 - $500.00 per year in electricity. My opinion is that the Model X is a good choice, we decided on the 90D as that was the least amount of compromise going from the RRS. If there are other points or questions you have let me know, I was searching for insight and didn't really find people in my situation so it's a tough decision. I don't regret it so far and I don't even have the Model X yet!
     
  5. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    Thanks that's very helpful. I think the RR Sport is a lot more popular here than the US so there don't seem to be many people with experience of both.

    I guess you had the previous model Q7. I test drove the new one today. Its handling was much improved as it is considerably lighter, but I felt it was a little softer than the RRS still. The salesman was somewhat incredulous to have this pointed out. The SQ7 has active anti roll though so I reckon it could probably match or better the RRS.

    I'm not bothered re off roading, most of our driving is around town with some highway driving.

    I agree on American "luxury". It's just not the same. I was pleasantly surprised by the X I sat in though, it wasn't as disappointing as I expected. I feel it was better than the Volvo XC90 which had obviously cheap plastics and in the base model that they took me to drive horrible leather although the higher spec models have nicer leather. I do like the look of the white model X interior. I feel I am a bit of an interior snob like you. Ultimately you spend a lot of time inside the car.

    The one thing you might be able to help with is the level of refinement. The RRS is one of the quietest cars on sale and the suspension is very quiet over broken up city streets and speed bumps. How does the X compare. Again today the XC90 was discounted quickly due to poor refinement around town, it was much better on the highway. The Q7 was pretty similar to the RRS. There are mixed reviews on refinement in the model X, this is perhaps the aspect that I am most concerned about as it is hard to tell without driving one.
     
  6. onesixeight

    onesixeight Member

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    I had a Range Rover SVR prior to getting the X and there is no doubt the build quality of the RR is head and shoulders above the X.

    Most here are discussing the interior quality such as fit and finish when standing still. When moving, Tesla's poor build quality becomes very evident. My X with 500mi rattles like a car that is many years older. We might all love Teslas but build quality isn't the company's strong suit. I've had two S and now the X and they all have rattles from Day 1.

    One thing you should also consider are the seats. Very short thigh support in the X. Something I wish I knew before buying the X.

    I would say the Model X ride is softer than a new RRS, but doesn't feel as sure footed at high speeds and in rainy weather.
     
  7. Pandamoanium

    Pandamoanium Member

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    The new Q7 has the four wheels turning. Watch the video on their website. It helps with cornering and may explain what you felt.

    Noise, I have the SCV8, it's pretty loud exhaust wise but a low rumble at low RPMs. Road noise and such is good, I also have nice silent tires on them. The Model X for me when driving was good, I don't recall to be honest and would need to drive it again.

    If you can sit in one do it. It's really up to the person but I can say that it feels good enough or up to par to my liking. I opted for the non PUP though so it'll be different.

    I'm curious as to when onesixeight got their model X, sounds like one of the earlier versions. I've heard the early ones are in bad shape and constantly being fixed, the new ones are doing much better. Also, how tall are you?! That must be the issue of a taller person than me. I sit comfortably at 5'8".
     
  8. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    Thanks, same height as you so not worried re seat length here.

    I have a diesel RRS, I had a BMW X5 previously. Whilst I prefer the RRS in general the diesel engine sounds far worse when revved than the BMW engine, although it is fine when not in a hurry. I have a colleague with the SCV8, whilst it sounds great when pressing on I have thought that the constant V8 rumble may be a bit wearing. The lack of diesel engine sound was a big plus factor for me when I test drove the model S.

    The Q7 I drove didn't have the four wheel steering, just the air suspension. I was amazed that the XC90 I drove didn't have the air suspension option as every owners comment has said that it is considerably better with it. It really was poor for rolling refinement.

    I was extremely concerned re reliability on the RRS before taking it but the new models seem much improved. I have had no mechanical or electrical issues, the boot lid did need realigned after delivery.

    Rattles really get on my nerves. The Q7 I test drove had 1 minor rattle and 1 thing obviously loose that was moving around. It was so bad I actually stopped during the test drive to try and find it. Quite why a car dealership would put out a demonstrator in this condition escapes me, although it is not unusual in my experience. I don't really like the local Audi dealer it is more like a selling factory. The BMW dealer is much more pleasant and helpful. The model S I drove actually felt very solid, but this is definitely an area of concern on the X.

    The XC90 seemed to have something rattling around in the back. One of the reasons I wanted to drive one was to also check out the space in the rear seats. I made this specifically clear the day before when I was in the showroom. The showroom model had a dog guard in the rear which prevented raising the third row. It seemed strange as this is surely one of the main selling points. Anyway when I finished driving the demo and went to look at the rear seats there was a set of golf clubs in the boot. That explained the noises, but meant unless I wanted to start messing around with someone else's stuff I couldn't try the rear seats again. Tbh I had already decided I did't really like it.

    Dealing with car dealers is a depressing business. I will either order the model X direct or another car via a broker where I get a better price and don't have to deal with a salesman - a win win.
     
  9. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    Dealing with car dealers is a depressing business. I will either order the model X direct or another car via a broker where I get a better price and don't have to deal with a salesman - a win win.[/QUOTE]

    Too true, painful and poor attitude I have found and it is not pleasant experience.

    @MrAliG I too am looking at Model X for UK and the new 60D version is getting my interest. I have booked a demo on the UK Tesla roadshow coming up this and next month so look with interest how you get on. Good luck deciding.
     
  10. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    Thanks Dan, I just emailed them as I haven't heard back with an appointment yet. Did they make it clear whether or not you can test drive the car? The invite uses the very vague "Meet Model X"
     
  11. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    My RSVP came though just now, I had a call from Tesla earlier today, and there is no test drive, it is a 1 hour look at the vehicle for those with orders who wish to spec exactly, or for new orders on the day or new potential customers like myself.. A sales advisor spends the hour discussing all options, I am though test driving a Model S at the same time.
     
  12. Sri Kooturu

    Sri Kooturu Member

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    One of the things to consider is how ICE car drives vs electric car after few years. I have a leaf now for 3 years that drives same as in the day I got it -smooth and no engine noise.
    On the other hand, with gas cars (at least the ones I drove-mb gl or odyssey) engine noise and delays in acceleration are clearly evident after 2 years.
    I'm getting my x90D august or September
     
  13. quartzav

    quartzav Member

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    I only had older X5 to compare it with. In my opinion, interior quality is a composition of the trim pieces quality and the assembly quality. My X was delivered during the end of 1st quarter rush. Fortunatly my copy actually has a pretty good interior assembly quality. I don't have any rattle after 3 months over 5500 miles. It is true that X5 still has parts quality advantage in less gap between trims...etc. The 90D drives with solid feel but people sitting in the rear reports they can feel the abrupt maneuver (such as turn-in rotation during mid-cornering) more than they can with X5. This is despite the X5 suspension in general is more jarring and nervous.
     
  14. Wineborg

    Wineborg Member

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    My wife drives a Q5 for last 3 years, and we need a 7-seat SUV now. So Q7 was the nature path for upgrade since she loves her Q5, and a Tesla was not even in the plan until a friend recommended couple of months ago. After testing driving both Q7 and MX, MX just blow her away and she didn't even give another thought on Q7. This is the fastest test drive to purchase decision we ever made :).

    We ordered a MX 90D in early last month, and delivery is expected late Aug/early Sep.
     
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  15. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    This is something I am considering also, that if the Model X can give me 10 years of fuss free driving, the yearly and monthly costs of ownership maths should prove positive even at a high entry price. I was told ICE Manufacturers expect a change of car every 5 years, could Tesla last longer in the field giving 10 years use if you chose to?

    Have original Model S US owners hit 5 year ownership yet, did they hit the market in Late 2011 or early 2012 I can't recall. I wonder how the early Tesla have held up today, and Roadsters of course?
     
  16. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    At the risk of upsetting some people I don't buy the whole EVs are a better bet over the long term due to the lack of moving parts. The electrics will go long before the engine on an ICE unless you do massive mileage.

    For me I usually keep cars 3-4 years. The longest ever was an X5 for almost 6 years. We only drive 6000 miles a year so they are barely run in when I trade them in.

    I got the same news as you Dan, an hour just looking around seems excessive. I emailed and they reckon some left hand drives will be available late August/early September for test drives. I think I will just have to be patient and wait for the test drive.
     
  17. Pandamoanium

    Pandamoanium Member

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    Fly to the US and make a vacation out of it. :)
     
  18. MrAliG

    MrAliG Member

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    I go a lot for work. But there is rarely any downtime for test drives. I have tried to fit one in.

    Just about to fly to Australia. I'm assuming they don't have any there to try out
     
  19. ithinkmac

    ithinkmac Member

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    2010 Q7 TDI
    2011 Porsche Cayenne S
    2014 RRS V8SC Dynamic

    finalized my MX90D today.

    Have not driven the X, but from sitting my butts in the X and all of my previous cars.
    The RRS is the most luxurious, it has a feel of luxury, the material is nicer, the leather feels better. The command-view sitting position in the RRS can't be beat. The exhaust note is amazing. Keeping the L494 even after the X. It'll be my backup ICE for long trips that I don't want to SuperCharge. X will be DD till Model 3s arrive.

    To me, the X interior (I have been over to the local Telsa store almost every weekend for the past month to sit and touch everything). I remember buying the L494 RRS, I was very giddy. Amazing that I can afford such a vehicle. When buying the X, it was more of I really need the write-off this year mindset. Was not blown away like I was with RRS. Actually every vehicle since the Q7 has a wow factor, when I got the Q7, all giddy. Cayenne = woot. RRS = WOAH!, MX90D = click, click, click, ordered.

    I'm a big Tesla fan. We'll be all electric when my Model 3s are here.

    The interior in the X is akin to the Q7 or the Cayenne, not RRS level, like another poster said. Middle-of-the-road luxury, like an E-Class or a 5 series. It's plenty nice, just not damn I made it nice.

    The logical part of my brain tells me the X is a great car to own for the next 5-10 years. I've been driving a Nissan Leaf as my commuter car, free HOV lane access. Lease is about to be up, so started to think seriously about another Leaf, or some sort of cheap EV. One thing lead to another and I bite the bullet and order the X. The pending referral expiry (which is moot now), the ACU promo financing (again moot) all pointed to a quick and easy decision last week to order. To me and my inner nerd, the X is a Spock order, and the RRS is the Kirk order (hey Star Trek Beyond is coming out, c'mon).

    I was in love with Q7 till I got the Porsche, then head over heels for the RRS (we named it Picasso). I'm really hoping when the X (we named it Pablo) arrives, it'll make me forgot about Picasso. :)

    -ThinkMac-
     
  20. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    Doing my first X look in the flesh this weekend, booked 1 hour review with sales. I'm hoping it feels like the right move and keen to get that gut feeling that it would be the right move.
    I'm a Tesla fan but the cost has been prohibitive, but now I am maybe one of those customers that it is still a high entry price point but could just swing it, a 60S or 60D is right on my personal purchase limit for PCP.
    I do run a small sustainability/open source business that could cover the cost, but it would stretch things a little.
    As always if it was just that bit under £50K UK in point they would sell so many more, £64K is quite a leap here and takes it into high end Porsche, Merc, categories where depreciation is very high after new.
     

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