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First Real Competition?

RCMorgan

Member
Mar 11, 2020
16
14
OC California
The EV’s from Jaguar and Audi are seriuosly overpriced compared to the Model Y. Performance, features, styling, and overall design fall short. (The Tesla mechanicals show ICE-driven alternatives to be Rube Goldberg contraptions and the interior styling compared to traditional interiors (including e-tron and I-Pace) does the same.
Now I like the Kia EV6, first of all for exterior sculpturing that is truly beautiful, fresh and relatively timeless without being jarring; until now only Tesla had hit that mark. Note also Kia’s and Hyundai’s recent awards for excellent vehicles including possibly lower interior noise levels than Model 3 and Y. This
64DAECB0-EC1B-499A-A212-75A3ECF2E48F.jpeg
vehicle could be a force in the market.
 
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Needsdecaf

Member
Dec 16, 2018
952
996
The Woodlands, TX
I'd say the Mach E is more than real competition.

Having said that, I like this EV, but would take the Hyundai Ioniq 5 over it. I mean, just look at it. Maybe I have a thing for 80's rally cars and Italian design style? To me, the Kia 6 looks too much like a Murano.

hyundai-ioniq-5-2021-05-min.png
 

mark95476

Member
Jun 21, 2020
893
470
Bay Area CA
The Kia EV6 and Ioniq 5 have really great styling. I saw some the Ioniq 5's interior and it looked really good.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the price points and driving measures up to the competition.
 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
205
220
916
The Kia and Hyundai are both good looking EVs. Styling-wise, I think they are a much nicer looking vehicle than Tesla offerings. It will be interesting to see how long Tesla can hold on to the "king of range" title. We picked up an eTron a couple weeks ago - and are waiting for these crossovers to be released before dumping our last remaining ICE vehicle and going all electric. The Hyundia might be my first pick - but the interior of the Kia looks a bit better to me. Looking forward to seeing them both in the near future.

We drove both the Kia Niro and Kona EV - so both mfgrs, to me, build a good EV.

On the Audi and Jag price issue - I'm not sure I agree - at least not with Audi. With current rebates, the price of our Audi eTron Sportback was mid-50s. And understanding everyone has their own taste in cars - I thought the eTron was much nicer than the Y in every respect other than acceleration and range. The ride comfort is amazing in it - as is the much more quiet interior (road noise). Anyway - not everyone agrees on that type of stuff - so it's just someone's opinion on the internet.

It will be interesting to see what Tesla's reaction is to these new offerings. Until very recently - Tesla was the only game in town for EVs (other than basic transportation type EVS e.g. bolt, leaf, etc.) This is all good stuff.
 
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PaulSu

Member
Sep 11, 2019
44
82
Guelph, Ontario
I agree that the EV6 and Ioniq 5 are going to be serious competition to Tesla. I disagree about Ford. Ford is a truck company and sells way more trucks then they do cars. I think given the problems with the rollout of the Mach-E and problems with the charging infrastructure, this might come back to bite Ford. While I think looks are objectionable, I feel the Kia?Hyundai offersing are much more appealing inside and out. I think the portrait screen in the Mach-E with the volume knob stuck to the bottom, is silly looking. Volume controls have been on steering wheels for quite some time. I can't remember when I've ever had to use a knob to turn it down. There are some really good Ioniq 5 videos on YouTube that shows the vehicle driving around:

 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
205
220
916
I agree that the EV6 and Ioniq 5 are going to be serious competition to Tesla. I disagree about Ford. Ford is a truck company and sells way more trucks then they do cars. I think given the problems with the rollout of the Mach-E and problems with the charging infrastructure, this might come back to bite Ford. While I think looks are objectionable, I feel the Kia?Hyundai offersing are much more appealing inside and out. I think the portrait screen in the Mach-E with the volume knob stuck to the bottom, is silly looking. Volume controls have been on steering wheels for quite some time. I can't remember when I've ever had to use a knob to turn it down. There are some really good Ioniq 5 videos on YouTube that shows the vehicle driving around:


What problems with the Ford charging infrastructure? It's the same infrastructure as for the Kia and Hyundai - correct?
 

FordMME

Member
Feb 15, 2021
95
54
Kansas
I agree that the EV6 and Ioniq 5 are going to be serious competition to Tesla. I disagree about Ford. Ford is a truck company and sells way more trucks then they do cars. I think given the problems with the rollout of the Mach-E and problems with the charging infrastructure, this might come back to bite Ford. While I think looks are objectionable, I feel the Kia?Hyundai offersing are much more appealing inside and out. I think the portrait screen in the Mach-E with the volume knob stuck to the bottom, is silly looking. Volume controls have been on steering wheels for quite some time. I can't remember when I've ever had to use a knob to turn it down. There are some really good Ioniq 5 videos on YouTube that shows the vehicle driving around:


I own a MME and the volume knob is FANTASTIC. Incredibly convenient - for driver AND passengers.

Also Ford can’t sell a good EV because it’s “a truck company”? What does that even mean?
 

PaulSu

Member
Sep 11, 2019
44
82
Guelph, Ontario
What problems with the Ford charging infrastructure? It's the same infrastructure as for the Kia and Hyundai - correct?
First of all there is no Ford infrastructure, they rely on 3rd parties like Electrify America. There are numerous videos of Electrify America chargers failing with Mach-E, including the online forums. It's not a one off either. As for Kia/Hyundai, like I said if they can nail the charging and the speeds they are touting, then, yes, it will be a problem Ford needs to resolve ASAP.

You want to masses to embrace EV, you have to make the charging like Tesla. Ford hasn't done this.
 

rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
2,260
1,546
Orange County, CA
Personally, I would prefer not to have to limit charging and park my car outside my garage.
 

PaulSu

Member
Sep 11, 2019
44
82
Guelph, Ontario
I own a MME and the volume knob is FANTASTIC. Incredibly convenient - for driver AND passengers.

Also Ford can’t sell a good EV because it’s “a truck company”? What does that even mean?
A snapshot of the Ford numbers for July through September:

  • 551,796 vehicles sold or a 4.9% decline in total sales from 2019
  • 311,751 trucks sold or 0.6% up from 2019
  • 191,803 SUVs sold or 0.7% down from 2019
  • 48,424 cars sold or 37.5% down from 2019
Ford sold 311,751 trucks compared to 48,424 cars... A pretty massive discrepancy. I believe the Mach-E numbers through February are less than 4,000 delivered vehicles.

Ford's F-Series trucks selling better in third quarter than before coronavirus pandemic
 
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PaulSu

Member
Sep 11, 2019
44
82
Guelph, Ontario
Personally, I would prefer not to have to limit charging and park my car outside my garage.

It's a great point, but the Ioniq 5/EV6 are based on a different platform.
 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
205
220
916
First of all there is no Ford infrastructure, they rely on 3rd parties like Electrify America. There are numerous videos of Electrify America chargers failing with Mach-E, including the online forums. It's not a one off either. As for Kia/Hyundai, like I said if they can nail the charging and the speeds they are touting, then, yes, it will be a problem Ford needs to resolve ASAP.

You want to masses to embrace EV, you have to make the charging like Tesla. Ford hasn't done this.
We’ve used EA and have had no issues in our Audi. I’m not sure it’s an "infrastructure" problem - but I have seen the issues you noted with the MME.
 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
205
220
916
Personally, I would prefer not to have to limit charging and park my car outside my garage.
Hasn’t that "problem" been solved - the issue isn’t present in new deliveries? May Hyundai should just issue a software update and downgrade the battery so it doesn’t happen?

it’s a good thing everyone else but Tesla has problems with their EVs.
 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
205
220
916
I own a MME and the volume knob is FANTASTIC. Incredibly convenient - for driver AND passengers.

Also Ford can’t sell a good EV because it’s “a truck company”? What does that even mean?
TBH - it’s hard to listen to (read) someone who simply argues about everything someone doesn’t like about their car. The volume knob is FANTASTIC? That’s hilarious.
 

rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
2,260
1,546
Orange County, CA
Hasn’t that "problem" been solved - the issue isn’t present in new deliveries? May Hyundai should just issue a software update and downgrade the battery so it doesn’t happen?

it’s a good thing everyone else but Tesla has problems with their EVs.
But I think this illustrates why Tesla is far ahead of others: battery management systems.

It will be interesting to see whether the Hyundai/Kia batteries remain useable in 5 years. The more EVs (especially those who will not hog Superchargers) on the road, the better!
 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
205
220
916
But I think this illustrates why Tesla is far ahead of others: battery management systems.

It will be interesting to see whether the Hyundai/Kia batteries remain useable in 5 years. The more EVs (especially those who will not hog Superchargers) on the road, the better!

Agree. Tesla is the current king of battery and range. That will likely even out over time (like HP and MPG) - and then we’ll just start to get amazing EV options from lots of mfgrs. The EV future is bright.
 

FordMME

Member
Feb 15, 2021
95
54
Kansas
First of all there is no Ford infrastructure, they rely on 3rd parties like Electrify America. There are numerous videos of Electrify America chargers failing with Mach-E, including the online forums. It's not a one off either. As for Kia/Hyundai, like I said if they can nail the charging and the speeds they are touting, then, yes, it will be a problem Ford needs to resolve ASAP.

You want to masses to embrace EV, you have to make the charging like Tesla. Ford hasn't done this.

Third party infrastructure is the future. There are no gas stations devoted to one brand of car. I applaud Tesla’s supercharger network and Tesla in general for bringing EVs into the mainstream, but brand-specific chargers will be obsolete within a decade.

The charging bugs are not with EA - they are with Ford’s half-baked Plug & Charge system which is interfering with the EA system. I have personal experience with this. Turn off Plug & Charge, and the EA stations work fantastic. Once Ford irons out Plug & Charge, it will be even better.

I know what I’m talking about because I own a MME and I’ve already taken an extensive road trip with multiple fast charging stops.

The MME is a fantastic vehicle. The one area Tesla still has an advantage is the Supercharger network. That advantage will be gone in a few years. I’ll take the better hardware now and wait for the infrastructure to catch up as it will.
 

FordMME

Member
Feb 15, 2021
95
54
Kansas
Agree. Tesla is the current king of battery and range. That will likely even out over time (like HP and MPG) - and then we’ll just start to get amazing EV options from lots of mfgrs. The EV future is bright.

Tesla is the king of charging (and efficiency, at a cost) but not range. Similarly configured and priced MME’s have better range as now confirmed by several tests.
 
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