First "real" post and soliciting opinions on the inventory car I've got on hold

[Rockster]

Hello, everyone. I've been lurking here since August when I test drove an S in Dallas and, of course, it was love at first flight. I'm writing today to get some opinions on an inventory car that I've just put a deposit upon.

I won't belabor the back story. The short version is that we decided upon a standard 85 with red or blue, tan interior, tech package, HPHC, and no pano. These are pretty concrete desires for us.

Before placing an order, we decided to make some calls and see what inventory cars are available now. We're perfectly fine with a slightly used one from Tesla and see it as an opportunity to either pay less for what we spec'd out last night or get more for want we're seeking to spend. The new one we casually spec'd last night was about 90k before the tax credit.

After talking to the really nice folks in Colorado (can't talk to the Texas galleries about inventory cars, of course), I happened upon what I thought was a sweet deal:

Red Performance 85 (not a plus)
Tan performance leather interior
Black (not pano) roof
21" wheels
Premium interior lighting
Ultra High Fidelity Sound
Nappa leather
Alcantara
Carbon fiber interior
Smart air suspension
Twin chargers (but not a wall mounted HPHC; that would be $1200 more)
Parcel shelf
4,400 miles on the odo

The price on this is $97,488, which is about 7 or 8k more than we were looking to spend but it would be getting us MUCH more car than we were originally spec'ing. Performance instead of Standard. Carbon fiber, better sound, nicer interior, etc.
The sticker price reads $108,520 but priced out today it's more like $116 for the same (albeit slightly renamed) features.

On the negative:

• the 21" tires are pricier (that's actually a significant concern, considering the decreased wear and increased price of the 21" tires); Would it be possible (and not stupid?) to see if they'd swap the wheels to 19" if that turns out to be a factor in our decision?
• there's no wall charger; that would be $1200 more (the ability to charge in a few hours at home is a nice feature for us); we could live with a NEMA but eventually, we'd feel compelled to buy a wall charger for faster charging at home.
• it's in Palo Alto, which would cost us $750 to ship to Dallas (not a big deal in the scheme of things)

One big thing I'm wondering is, this appears to be an older car (the enhanced stereo is priced at $950 on the sticker instead of $2500 and apparently this was back when the premium interior lighting, nappa, alcantara, smart air, and spoiler were included in the price). Does this mean there might early production issues that might compel me to get a lesser equipped, new model instead?

BTW, the warranty begins when I purchase and the warranty mileage begins counting from purchase miles, not from zero.

I have to admit that I'm not entirely objective at this point, with the thought that we could be driving a decked-out P85 months before I thought I might ever have an S85. Just to ensure the car would be there after my wife and I talk this evening, I went ahead and moved our X deposit over to this car. (We put a deposit on an X last month and decided last night that we'd rather have an S now and reconsider an X at a future time.)


I welcome your thoughts.


p.s., the VIN is 96XX



10/31/2013: Status update: I completed the loan today! By this time next week, north Dallas will boast another Tesla Model S, baby!

 

[brianman]

about 7 or 8k more than we were looking to spend but it would be getting us MUCH more car than we were originally spec'ing. Performance instead of Standard. Carbon fiber, better sound, nicer interior, etc.

For 7-8k more you're getting Performance "and other upgrades". I would have trouble resisting in your shoes.

 

[stevezzzz]

Your concerns about the 21's are valid: you'll spend a lot more on rubber than on electricity with the 21's. I doubt TM will just give you a set of new 19's in trade for the used 21's, but you can ask. Swapping with another S owner who has 19's and wants your 21's might be another option.

What makes you think you need a HPWC? Most everyone with a 14-50 in the garage has been very happy with that solution. Do you really do enough driving on any given day that a fast charge before bedtime is necessary?

Otherwise: holy cow, a P85 with everything but Pano and a fresh warranty, for what amounts to last year's prices, or better? Sounds like a winner!

 

[texex91]

That is a pretty old car VIN wise. Personally I'd just spec out a new one, get what you want in it, and have it be brand new.

As to 21", I personally think it's the only way to go with that car. Like everything else it's just personal preference.

My .02, get a new one, and if you don't even want a P then just get a S 85--but at least it would be exactly how you want it, and FRESH from the factory.

 

[Rockster]

What makes you think you need a HPWC? Most everyone with a 14-50 in the garage has been very happy with that solution. Do you really do enough driving on any given day that a fast charge before bedtime is necessary?

My wife is a consultant and zips around between clients during the day. A number of times a year, we jump in the car right after her work day ends in the early afternoon for a road trip down to Austin to see family. This, and our general carpe diem lifestyle, makes us concerned that we would too often chafe at slow home charging. Obviously, we could adjust if we only had a NEMA. She could take the ICE on the days we were leaving town and I could take the S, with my 10 mile commute each way, which would result in a virtually fully charged car as we begin our trip or we could be sure and swing by Corner Street Bakery in Waco on the way, if necessary. Given the choice, however, we'd prefer an HPWC. Since this car has essentially unbundled them for me, getting an HPWC could wait until later, if I needed to. I know there are people here considering selling theirs because they want the dual charger but not the HPWC. (I echo the sentiment that they should not be a bundle.)

- - - Updated - - -

That is a pretty old car VIN wise.

Hi, Tex.

Other than being noteworthy, is the age of the vehicle something I should be worried about? I sense from the various postings that Tesla is (unsurprisingly) getting better at refining their production process, resulting in cars that have fewer issues, in general, but that's just a subjective assessment. I'd love to have some concrete examples of things that were problematic at those earlier VINs and would be worth worrying about here.

 

[brianman]

My wife is a consultant and zips around between clients during the day. A number of times a year, we jump in the car right after her work day ends in the early afternoon for a road trip down to Austin to see family. This, and our general carpe diem lifestyle, makes us concerned that we would too often chafe at slow home charging. Obviously, we could adjust if we only had a NEMA. She could take the ICE on the days we were leaving town and I could take the S, with my 10 mile commute each way, which would result in a virtually fully charged car as we begin our trip or we could be sure and swing by Corner Street Bakery in Waco on the way, if necessary. Given the choice, however, we'd prefer an HPWC. Since this car has essentially unbundled them for me, getting an HPWC could wait until later, if I needed to. I know there are people here considering selling theirs because they want the dual charger but not the HPWC. (I echo the sentiment that they should not be a bundle.)

How many miles (guesstimate?) does she put on the vehicle in a day when doing the zip around you describe in the first sentence? 50? 150?

I like my HPWC, and I'd buy it again. (I'm stubborn and I have my not necessarily rational reasons.)

That said, I can't recommend the HPWC as "necessary" vs. a 14-50R. If it was only $100 differential in total installation cost (including the device), then perhaps that would be different.

 

[Rockster]

brianman, she puts about 100 miles per day, on average, on her car. She's going to drive it like she stole it, though, so figure higher than average drain for those 100 miles.

 

[brianman]

Other than being noteworthy, is the age of the vehicle something I should be worried about? I sense from the various postings that Tesla is (unsurprisingly) getting better at refining their production process, resulting in cars that have fewer issues, in general, but that's just a subjective assessment. I'd love to have some concrete examples of things that were problematic at those earlier VINs and would be worth worrying about here.

I mentally bucket the U.S. vehicles like so (I haven't thought much about how the Canadian vehicles fit yet):

1. early Signature (first 50-100)
2. middle Signature (101-750)
3. late Signature (751+)
4. early production (< 3000)
5. non-early production (3001+)

My impressions (not fact, so calm the hell down rather than replying with rage) ...

There were a lot of interesting and varied problems with the #1 group. Some of them were discussed on the forums. Some were quietly addressed directly between owners and Tesla with little fanfare.

Generally #2 and #3 have been pretty "lucky" at getting a "post initial jitters" good quality cars. There were some complaints about panel alignment not being "perfect" but overall "a good roll of the dice" applies to most of these cars. Some got a "bad roll" with a bad batch of 12V batteries (that led to all kinds of bad symptoms).

Group #4 had lots of drama as the production line changed. Why does my perf not have Alcantara? Shouldn't I have gotten metal pedals on my non-Sig, non-Perf? How come the trunk has black pieces instead of the chrome/metal pieces? "WTF, no cargo net?" No "car exploding" or "stalling on the freeway" type stuff generally speaking but things to be unhappy about (and reasonably so in most cases). There were also some oddities like windshields with stress fractures, and the "bad 12V battery batch" problems continued somewhat.

Group #5 doesn't seem to have the group #4 problems, and seems to have a broader -- less "pro Tesla to the death" -- audience and opened up awareness to additional (sometime recycled) discussions about overall design decisions like the console/no-console, cupholders, etc. I haven't heard a lot of things that make me concerned there are systemic quality problems in the production line.


As the VIN you listed is in Group # 5, I wouldn't be super-worried based on the VIN alone. And even for the lower VINs, my impression is that they've "made the car good" eventually for the older VINs anyway.

 

[SFOTurtle]

brianman, she puts about 100 miles per day, on average, on her car. She's going to drive it like she stole it, though, so figure higher than average drain for those 100 miles.

I think you'd be just fine with NEMA 14-50 unless she put a full 100 miles on your car during the day then you decided to go on a road trip spur of the moment AND there are no Superchargers on your route. Even with a HPWC, your're still talking a couple of hours to charge to get 100 miles or more, so it's not like you have a Supercharger in your garage. If you're heading to Austin, you have a Supercharger on the way so no need to do a fast charge at home unless you were absent-minded enough to run the battery down low, something that should be avoided anyway.

 

[JPP]

FWIW, my vin is P09667--kissing cousins to the OPs vehicle. MC Red/black leather S85 with 19" Goodyears, No pano, air, tech, standrad sound. No major issues. Some service bulletins done (like rear window regulators). No major issues--just be sure all service bulletins are done and that they do a full alignment and check all lug nut and rear axle bolt torques. I'm happy.

 

[kendallpb]

brianman, she puts about 100 miles per day, on average, on her car. She's going to drive it like she stole it, though, so figure higher than average drain for those 100 miles.

Even before I read this, I was thinking, if you've done your research and you know what charging times and you know what you're lifestyle is like, ignore folks trying to talk you out of it. I'm happy with my HPWC. A lot of folks don't need it, but based on what you've been describing, IMHO if you're fine with buying an HPWC and feel it'll come in handy occasionally...go for it.

(Yes, I buck the "common wisdom," as it not every situation is common. ;-) )

On the car...my VIN's 4270 (res. #8061) and I've been very happy with my car. As with JPP, I had a few service bulletins done and I believe there are a few pending; the ones so far were all done at once, within a few hours at most. Your proposed VIN is a lot later than mine, so I'd be surprised if you had any major issues.

 

[Rockster]

Gang-

These are all great comments. Thank you very much. This is quite an exciting decision. I honestly don't think there's a wrong answer here. Be it a used PS, a new S, an HPWC, or a NEMA, we'd still driving a Tesla, after all.

 

[JohnQ]

Gang-

These are all great comments. Thank you very much. This is quite an exciting decision. I honestly don't think there's a wrong answer here. Be it a used PS, a new S, an HPWC, or a NEMA, we'd still driving a Tesla, after all.

I have the MC Red, black roof, non-performance (spec is in sig). VIN is 83xx. I did have to have the touch screen swapped out at about 3,500 miles, but that's an electronics issue that could happen on any car. Zero issues with the car beyond that. Agree with the upstream posters who feel it's not an early VIN.

On 21" wheels: Drive them for a while. If you don't like them, sell them and purchase take off 19" OEMs if you want to go that route. That's how I got my winter wheels.
On HPWC: The twin chargers now come bundled with it. I imagine people want the twins but not the HPWC so you can probably purchase from someone else (or directly from Tesla).

Your call on whether you really want a new car but don't let the VIN hold you back ...

 

[mark]

I would get the demo car - I regret not taking the plunge for a P85.
Wait on the HPWC until you are sure you need it (you could get a 6-50 run with oversized wire so its easy to upgrade if you decide you need it).
You could prob easily sell the 21s and get 19in cyclones if you really don't want to buy tires repeatedly.
Hope to see you around Dallas in your new S soon!

 

[Shumdit]

Hello, everyone. I've been lurking here since August when I test drove an S in Dallas and, of course, it was love at first flight. I'm writing today to get some opinions on an inventory car that I've just put a deposit upon.

I won't belabor the back story. The short version is that we decided upon a standard 85 with red or blue, tan interior, tech package, HPHC, and no pano. These are pretty concrete desires for us.

Before placing an order, we decided to make some calls and see what inventory cars are available now. We're perfectly fine with a slightly used one from Tesla and see it as an opportunity to either pay less for what we spec'd out last night or get more for want we're seeking to spend. The new one we casually spec'd last night was about 90k before the tax credit.

After talking to the really nice folks in Colorado (can't talk to the Texas galleries about inventory cars, of course), I happened upon what I thought was a sweet deal:

Red Performance 85 (not a plus)
Tan performance leather interior
Black (not pano) roof
21" wheels
Premium interior lighting
Ultra High Fidelity Sound
Nappa leather
Alcantara
Carbon fiber interior
Smart air suspension
Twin chargers (but not a wall mounted HPHC; that would be $1200 more)
Parcel shelf
4,400 miles on the odo

The price on this is $97,488, which is about 7 or 8k more than we were looking to spend but it would be getting us MUCH more car than we were originally spec'ing. Performance instead of Standard. Carbon fiber, better sound, nicer interior, etc.
The sticker price reads $108,520 but priced out today it's more like $116 for the same (albeit slightly renamed) features.

On the negative:

• the 21" tires are pricier (that's actually a significant concern, considering the decreased wear and increased price of the 21" tires); Would it be possible (and not stupid?) to see if they'd swap the wheels to 19" if that turns out to be a factor in our decision?
• there's no wall charger; that would be $1200 more (the ability to charge in a few hours at home is a nice feature for us); we could live with a NEMA but eventually, we'd feel compelled to buy a wall charger for faster charging at home.
• it's in Palo Alto, which would cost us $750 to ship to Dallas (not a big deal in the scheme of things)

One big thing I'm wondering is, this appears to be an older car (the enhanced stereo is priced at $950 on the sticker instead of $2500 and apparently this was back when the premium interior lighting, nappa, alcantara, smart air, and spoiler were included in the price). Does this mean there might early production issues that might compel me to get a lesser equipped, new model instead?

BTW, the warranty begins when I purchase and the warranty mileage begins counting from purchase miles, not from zero.

I have to admit that I'm not entirely objective at this point, with the thought that we could be driving a decked-out P85 months before I thought I might ever have an S85. Just to ensure the car would be there after my wife and I talk this evening, I went ahead and moved our X deposit over to this car. (We put a deposit on an X last month and decided last night that we'd rather have an S now and reconsider an X at a future time.)


I welcome your thoughts.


p.s., the VIN is 5YJSA1DP0DFP09635

I think your VIN is well beyond the early cars that had some teething issues like others have mentioned. I also think you are getting a heck of a lot more car than you would if you ordered new. The 21's I am sure someone will gladly trade you out for their 19's and give you cash to boot if you don't want them. Red is not my color, but you like it and that is what matters. The only downside for me is the lack of a Pano, but you said you did not want it anyway. Headroom without the Pano is an issue for me for back seat passengers. I can't see why you would order new with the deal you are getting on that car since it does come so close to your ideal and has a ton of pre price increase options. The P85 is very addictive over the S85 even though the S85 is no slouch.
Congrats!

 

[100thMonkey]

sounds good to me. I'd check the work history, take a look also at the inside of the tires to see if there is uneven wear. the negative camber will result in some inside wear but a few folks seem to have alignment issues that have eaten tires... the local service center can likely do an alignment check for you pretty easy. you are seeing that the price has gone up a lot, these last few loaners are the last chance to get an S at the old pricing, go for it!

 

[huntjo]

I'd say take the demo. Quite a good deal at that rate. Be advised w that many miles there may be cosmetic issues; i.e. Rock chips, paint swirls, seat wear. I doubt Tesla would sell it to you without buffing it up as much as possible, but it will definitely not look exactly brand spanking new. That being said, from reports I've read here, folks getting the demo cars have MOSTLY been happy with the appearance of their vehicle. (There was one exception, in which a guy ranted on and on about how the paint wasn't perfect and the guy promised him it was going to be, blah, blah blah. Interestingly, Later posts did sound like Tesla was trying to fix that to his satisfaction. I don't know many car makers or Dealerships that would do that on a showroom/floor model/ loaner)

 

[Plug Me In]

If you're OK with the increase in your budget, I say go for it. Haven't owned 21" wheels, but based on what I've learned, I prefer the 19" that I have. That is not an old car, (maybe in Tesla time, but not as old as mine) you're getting it from the manufacturer with a full warranty. As far as HPWC, I'll only offer that based on your driving habits you describe, I think it would be OK to start out with a regular 14-50 to see how it goes and then upgrade if you're not happy.

 

[wormhole]

That is a pretty old car VIN wise. Personally I'd just spec out a new one, get what you want in it, and have it be brand new.

LOL, 'old' Probably made over the summer...my VIN is 'old'....

 

[Owner]

There is some line here between cars built in 2012 vs. 2013. In 2012 they were working more shifts to get cars out. Might be near the 3,000 number or perhaps a little bit more. In 2013 in January folks had a week off.

The only other point would be perhaps one with the new door handle improvements. I wonder what VIN that changed?

I mentally bucket the U.S. vehicles like so (I haven't thought much about how the Canadian vehicles fit yet):

1. early Signature (first 50-100)
2. middle Signature (101-750)
3. late Signature (751+)
4. early production (< 3000)
5. non-early production (3001+)