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First time user of ABRP - trip planning question

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VQTRVA

Member
Mar 13, 2019
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CVA
Recent Plan was for:
Trip one way = 130 miles
Battery @ depart = 48% left on my 3D (ie. 142 mi remaining from 297 uncalibrated).
Battery @ arrival per ABRP = 4% or 12 miles

Chickened out & gave my 3D a 1 hour L2 charge = 30 mi +142 = 172 mi range
Actual arrival = 32 mi left.
Expended: 140 mi

So is this right?
With No addl charge: arrival would have been -10 miles (expended 140 - 130 planned route mi)??

Is ABRP not as accurate as I had hoped & I need to build a buffer of some miles or %?
Well aware that HVAC & traveling 80+ mph are a factor :D
 
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Recent Plan was for:
Trip one way = 130 miles
Battery @ depart = 48% left on my 3D (ie. 142 mi remaining from 297 uncalibrated).
Battery @ arrival per ABRP = 4% or 12 miles

Chickened out & gave my 3D a 1 hour L2 charge = 30 mi +142 = 172 mi range
Actual arrival = 32 mi left.
Expended: 140 mi

So is this right?
With No addl charge: arrival would have been -10 miles (expended 140 - 130 planned route mi)??

Is ABRP not as accurate as I had hoped & I need to build a buffer of some miles or %?
Well aware that HVAC & traveling 80+ mph are a factor :D

I dont use ABRP, but the traveling at 80MPH is a big big (huge) deal. Does ABRP allow you to say you will be traveling at that "high" a speed? Put the air quotes around it, because in some parts that is normal speed (like where I am, on the 15 Freeway between temecula and San Diego, when there is no traffic).

I am no expert in this by any means, but I have read a lot about how 80 mph is not only a "little" more usage than 70, but a "LOT" more usage. I suspect that the 80MHP is the culprit.
 
Recent Plan was for:
Trip one way = 130 miles
Battery @ depart = 48% left on my 3D (ie. 142 mi remaining from 297 uncalibrated).
Battery @ arrival per ABRP = 4% or 12 miles

Chickened out & gave my 3D a 1 hour L2 charge = 30 mi +142 = 172 mi range
Actual arrival = 32 mi left.
Expended: 140 mi

So is this right?
With No addl charge: arrival would have been -10 miles (expended 140 - 130 planned route mi)??

Is ABRP not as accurate as I had hoped & I need to build a buffer of some miles or %?
Well aware that HVAC & traveling 80+ mph are a factor :D
Accuracy depends alot upon the inputs. The better the inputs, the better the prediction. For example, what did you put in for Reference Speed? Cause if you were driving 80mph, then the Ref Speed should be 123%. Speed and temp are the two inputs you really need to get as close as possible to accurate if you want an accurate prediction.
 
Recent Plan was for:
Trip one way = 130 miles
Battery @ depart = 48% left on my 3D (ie. 142 mi remaining from 297 uncalibrated).
Battery @ arrival per ABRP = 4% or 12 miles

Chickened out & gave my 3D a 1 hour L2 charge = 30 mi +142 = 172 mi range
Actual arrival = 32 mi left.
Expended: 140 mi

So is this right?
With No addl charge: arrival would have been -10 miles (expended 140 - 130 planned route mi)??

Is ABRP not as accurate as I had hoped & I need to build a buffer of some miles or %?
Well aware that HVAC & traveling 80+ mph are a factor :D
It's been a while since my engineering classes in college, but drag is proportional to velocity squared. 80 mph creates 30 percent more drag on the car than 70 mph even though it is only 14 percent faster. 30 percent is going to have a big impact on your calcs for range (obviously).
 
Why are you leaving with a low battery?
If you are continuing a journey, why are you using ABRP and not just asking the car?

Planners are planners, the one thing that they probably will never be is right.
Your driving speed, winds, temperatures are all variables in reality.

And BTW the numbers really aren't that accurate. A batteries voltage will change as it warms and cools, and therefore the estimated range.

By the way, did you ever try to get this to precise in your ICE?
 
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I dont use ABRP, but the traveling at 80MPH is a big big (huge) deal. Does ABRP allow you to say you will be traveling at that "high" a speed? Put the air quotes around it, because in some parts that is normal speed (like where I am, on the 15 Freeway between temecula and San Diego, when there is no traffic).

I am no expert in this by any means, but I have read a lot about how 80 mph is not only a "little" more usage than 70, but a "LOT" more usage. I suspect that the 80MHP is the culprit.

While temp and speed are important, wind seems to have the most impact on ABRP when playing with It.
Did you take that in account?
 
Recent Plan was for:
Trip one way = 130 miles
Battery @ depart = 48% left on my 3D (ie. 142 mi remaining from 297 uncalibrated).
Battery @ arrival per ABRP = 4% or 12 miles

Chickened out & gave my 3D a 1 hour L2 charge = 30 mi +142 = 172 mi range
Actual arrival = 32 mi left.
Expended: 140 mi

So is this right?
With No addl charge: arrival would have been -10 miles (expended 140 - 130 planned route mi)??

Is ABRP not as accurate as I had hoped & I need to build a buffer of some miles or %?
Well aware that HVAC & traveling 80+ mph are a factor :D

ABRP has a speed setting. You need to use it unless you travel at 100% of the speed limit. Set it to 110% or 120% or whatever matches your driving style.

Also, what did the in-car nav estimate? That is usually very good as well. I refer to both.
 
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Why are you leaving with a low battery?
I
Wanted to re-calibrate my battery from close 0.


If you are continuing a journey, why are you using ABRP and not just asking the car?
Want to see how accurate the ABRP is since it is very well regarded as a planner.
Also to gather data about my personal driving habits layered on top of battery data provided by the car.

Planners are planners, the one thing that they probably will never be is right.
Your driving speed, winds, temperatures are all variables in reality.
True. That's why I wanted to see if I can get a reasonable buffer on what is provided on the car range available vs. trip distance.

And BTW the numbers really aren't that accurate. A batteries voltage will change as it warms and cools, and therefore the estimated range.

By the way, did you ever try to get this to precise in your ICE?
Yes.

I got it to where I know that my GTI when it said 0 miles - I still had about 12 miles under that till the car stopped out.
 
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By the way, did you ever try to get this to precise in your ICE?

That is a silly question. ICE can be refueled quickly and easily at numerous locations along most routes whenever you feel like it.

This is like comparing planning out how much food you need to eat to not be hungry if you are sitting at home watching TV all day with a well-stocked pantry and fridge a few steps away, vs going for a day hike into the wilderness where your options are the food you pack with you or scavenging for berries or something.

The nature of use of EVs for trips is different than ICE (for now anyways).
For commuting there’s way less planning/detouring than ICE if you leave home with a “full tank” every day you never have to plan a trip to get “gas”. Not that you plan that much with an ICE either, but you might plan getting gas the night before instead of leaving it for the morning when you may be rushed. So EV commuting is better in this way IMO.

For a trip though, the EV needs a tad more planning. Precision / increased accuracy is desirable for planning.

OP asked if this was typical or could be improved. Answer is yes, you can input speed so that when you give yourself a buffer from the estimate you are more likely actually giving yourself a buffer rather than making up for a bad estimate.

Also, knowing this let’s you adjust your driving if necessary (slowing down) to increase the buffer on the fly.

Always use the nav so you can see the estimate in the car too ... and know if you need to slow down or charge.
 
Recent Plan was for:
Trip one way = 130 miles
Battery @ depart = 48% left on my 3D (ie. 142 mi remaining from 297 uncalibrated).
Battery @ arrival per ABRP = 4% or 12 miles

Chickened out & gave my 3D a 1 hour L2 charge = 30 mi +142 = 172 mi range
Actual arrival = 32 mi left.
Expended: 140 mi

So is this right?
With No addl charge: arrival would have been -10 miles (expended 140 - 130 planned route mi)??

Is ABRP not as accurate as I had hoped & I need to build a buffer of some miles or %?
Well aware that HVAC & traveling 80+ mph are a factor :D


I find ABRP very useful for a trip planning tool, because it shows Superchargers other than the one's recommended by the in-car navigator.
On a long trip I will sometimes select different Superchargers than the in-car navigator recommends, and ABRP is a good tool for planning to do that.

Couple of issue with your analysis:

1) Suggest you switch your standard battery status display to percentage instead of miles. The miles it shows isn't the range you are going to get. Percent is a lot more meaningful.

2) Best never to plan on an arrival percentage less than 10%.

3) Make sure the ABRP parameters are set correctly, otherwise it won't give you the correct forecast.

4) Seems like ABRP gave a pretty good forecast.

5) Once you were 30 miles into the trip, what was the in-car navigator forecasting for your arrival percentage?
Note: Because it uses recent driving behavior for its forecast, the forecast takes a while to stabilize to your current reality.

ABRP = abetterrouteplanner.com
 
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I find ABRP very useful for a trip planning tool, because it shows Superchargers other than the one's recommended by the in-car navigator.
On a long trip I will sometimes select different Superchargers than the in-car navigator recommends, and ABRP is a good tool for planning to do that.

Couple of issue with your analysis:

1) Suggest you switch your standard battery status display to percentage instead of miles. The miles it shows isn't the range you are going to get. Percent is a lot more meaningful.

2) Best never to plan on an arrival percentage less than 10%.

3) Make sure the ABRP parameters are set correctly, otherwise it won't give you the correct forecast.

4) Seems like ABRP gave a pretty good forecast.

5) Once you were 30 miles into the trip, what was the in-car navigator forecasting for your arrival percentage?
Note: Because it uses recent driving behavior for its forecast, the forecast takes a while to stabilize to your current reality.

ABRP = abetterrouteplanner.com

Agree with all this, except ... percent is a lot LESS meaningful.

Percent is relative to "100%" ... and "100%" can change ... from degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure, etc.

If you don't look at 'miles' you won't realize if your 100% is dropping fast because of some real issue (other than the typical 3-5 miles people run around with their heads cut off aboute).

If you use miles on the dash, you can see % on the trip energy chart at the same time.
 
Agree with all this, except ... percent is a lot LESS meaningful.

Percent is relative to "100%" ... and "100%" can change ... from degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure, etc.

If you don't look at 'miles' you won't realize if your 100% is dropping fast because of some real issue (other than the typical 3-5 miles people run around with their heads cut off aboute).

If you use miles on the dash, you can see % on the trip energy chart at the same time.

Please explain the disagreement here @M3BlueGeorgia
 
If you use miles on the dash, you can see % on the trip energy chart at the same time.
Bah, I can't believe I didn't know that. I learn great little tidbits of information on this forum every day.

Please explain the disagreement here @M3BlueGeorgia
I'd like to hear his side on this as well. Not trying to start an argument, would just like to hear his take on the issue.
 
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Agree with all this, except ... percent is a lot LESS meaningful.

Percent is relative to "100%" ... and "100%" can change ... from degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure, etc.

If you don't look at 'miles' you won't realize if your 100% is dropping fast because of some real issue (other than the typical 3-5 miles people run around with their heads cut off aboute).

If you use miles on the dash, you can see % on the trip energy chart at the same time.
Okay, so which one of your cited issues, "degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure," is a "real issue (other than the typical 3-5 miles people run around with their heads cut off aboute)." since as you mention there are lots of not so real issues that people lose their minds about.

Degradation - This seems like a real issue, but degradation occurs over time, and would be something you would notice regardless of whether you are showing Miles or %age SOC, no? I mean if I do a regular commute and start at 80% and end at 65%, and then after 6 months, the commute ends at 60%, then I know there might be a degradation issue, or maybe the season has changed and it's colder or some other reason, but you would notice it regardless, right?

Miscalibration - is this a "real issue"? It's not, right, cause that's what you are referring to when you mention people running around with their heads cut off, right?

Software-nerfing by the mothership - is that a "real issue"? It's not, right? It's correctable.

Impending battery failure - Now that seems like a "real issue", but wouldn't the car tell you if there was a battery failure problem, and wouldn't you notice the %age SOC dropping fast just like Miles dropping fast? Has anyone with a battery failure mentioned that they knew it was coming because they were using Miles instead of %age SOC?

I'm still trying to understand how miles is more informative since it seems highly uninformative given how many people come to these forums to complain about their lost range, and run around with their heads cut off that you mention. If it's informative, why are so many people uninformed?
 
@darth_vad3r is certainly accurate about how and why the % is less informative.

Have to disagree with this. @darth_vad3r said "percent is a lot LESS meaningful.Percent is relative to "100%" ... and "100%" can change ... from degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure, etc."

Miles is no less susceptible to "degredation, miscalibration, sofware-nerfing, impending battery failure, etc" than percent.

They are both the same metric, displayed in a different format. Miles is no more accurate than percent and vice versa.
 
Have to disagree with this. @darth_vad3r said "percent is a lot LESS meaningful.Percent is relative to "100%" ... and "100%" can change ... from degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure, etc."

Miles is no less susceptible to "degredation, miscalibration, sofware-nerfing, impending battery failure, etc" than percent.
Miles let’s you SEE what’s going on. Percent hides it behind “80%”.

I can charge to 80% for 20 years. Do I have degradation? I have to switch to miles to see!

They are both the same metric, displayed in a different format. Miles is no more accurate than percent and vice versa.

This is 100% incorrect.

A degraded battery will charge to “100%” and read a lower mile number, they are different metrics. One is capacity in kWh (miles) the other is related to voltage.

They are measuring DIFFERENT things.

EDIT: See my “water in a pool” and “LR vs SR+“, and “SR+ vs SR” analogies in posts below to maybe help everyone ‘get’ this. “100%” isn’t fixed. It’s actually relative. 100% on a LR is not the same as 100% on a degrade LR is not the same as 100% on an SR+ is not the same as 100% on an SR.

“100%” is basically saying “you’re at about 400V”.

All the cars above can get to 400V, but they all have different capacities! (Ok, except the software-nerfed SR maybe :))

Super rough ballpark-ish ... 100% = 400V, 0% = 300V ... everything else in between is relative (not necessarily linear, there’s a curve).
 
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Has anyone with a battery failure mentioned that they knew it was coming because they were using Miles instead of %age SOC?

Yes. This guy was using miles and saw issues long before his car finally said it was time to call it quits.

Range on midrange reduced to 219 miles

Realistically, would you notice anyway? I know I would in most situations. But not everyone pays super-close attention. I could see a sudden problem with someone using percentage who typically goes a long distance in a day (long commute, so is not using the trip planner) and they could encounter sudden issues. Corner case? Sure.
 
Okay, so which one of your cited issues, "degradation, miscalibration, software-nerfing by the mothership, impending battery failure," is a "real issue (other than the typical 3-5 miles people run around with their heads cut off aboute)." since as you mention there are lots of not so real issues that people lose their minds about.
Anything but temporary miscalibration is a “real” issue. Temporary miscalibration is temporary. Your glasses are a bit fogged up and you can’t read the battery gauge, it doesn’t change now much fuel you have. Wipe your glssses off and you will see the true amount again.

Degradation - This seems like a real issue, but degradation occurs over time, and would be something you would notice regardless of whether you are showing Miles or %age SOC, no? I mean if I do a regular commute and start at 80% and end at 65%, and then after 6 months, the commute ends at 60%, then I know there might be a degradation issue, or maybe the season has changed and it's colder or some other reason, but you would notice it regardless, right?
Right, you notice it takes more percent, but is it the season or your accessory usage, or degradation? Check your miles at 80% every day. If that number drops 2 miles a week for 20 weeks you’ve got some degradation or battery failure going on. If you just charge to “80%” every day you notice nothing.

Miscalibration - is this a "real issue"? It's not, right, cause that's what you are referring to when you mention people running around with their heads cut off, right?
Right.

Software-nerfing by the mothership - is that a "real issue"? It's not, right? It's correctable.
It’s possinly real, it might not be correctable, it could be a sign of some minor thing “wrong” with your battery that they’ve decided to nerf it a bit. It’d be nice to know if this happened to you one day. Instead of noticing 20 miles of degradation 2 years from now and thinking its all degradation when maybe 18 miles was a nerf 2 years prior and only 2 miles degraded.

Impending battery failure - Now that seems like a "real issue", but wouldn't the car tell you if there was a battery failure problem, and wouldn't you notice the %age SOC dropping fast just like Miles dropping fast? Has anyone with a battery failure mentioned that they knew it was coming because they were using Miles instead of %age SOC?
It depends on the failure mode. % is basically voltage. Miles is capacity.

I'm still trying to understand how miles is more informative since it seems highly uninformative given how many people come to these forums to complain about their lost range, and run around with their heads cut off that you mention. If it's informative, why are so many people uninformed?

Ok ... let’s see. Your battery is a swimming pool full of water.

% is a depth gauge. 0% is empty, 100% is full. 50% is a line half way up the wall.

miles is how many gallons of water are in the pool.

“But these are the same thing!”

No they aren’t! Degradation fairies visit your pool at night and throw blue bricks into it that are invisible and blend in with the floor. At first you don’t notice, but eventually after draining and refilling the pool you notice that it used to take you 12 hours to fill it but now it only takes 10. Why?

Because the bricks are taking up space. The pool holds less gallons of water. The pool’s capacity has shrunk.

The water level is still useful to tell you when it’s “full”, and when there’s enough water to dive into it safely, but it doesn’t tell you how many gallons are in the pool.

If I have the same pool next door, but I have degradation fairy guard dogs, my pool won’t have any bricks in it. When both our pools are “100%” full, mine will have more water in it than yours. If you just look at the water level, you don’t know which has more water. You need to look at the gallons gauge.

% is how “full” the battery is.
Miles is how much energy is in the battery.

These are DIFFERENT metrics. Water level vs gallons of water.
 
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