I currently own a 2022 MYP and MX Plaid and I agree with most of your sentiments here. I got both of them pre price hikes and actually the only reason I took delivery of the MYP is because I held an order from august 2021 and the prices rocketed but I also have an r1s pre price hike res that will be replacing the model y performance. For the price I paid though, the MX plaid is just a crazy suv that defies physics and offers a ton of value. The engineering behind the plaid motors is wild and the way this thing pulls on the highway is bewildering. It’s an absolute highway monster. 99% of super/hyper cars can’t keep up not just in 0-60 but in 60-130mph time of around 5 seconds… A 2021 model x performance with ludicrous mode does 60-130 in 13 seconds so it’s a pretty substantial jump when you’re talking about highway passing power. A Porsche taycan turbo s does it in 8 seconds. Having that kind of power in a 3 row family suv with automatic doors and a range of 333 miles is crazy. I don’t think I’d ever give it up for the rivian but the jump from a MYP to an r1s is a no brainer.
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Firsthand comparison from an owner of both, between the Rivian SUV and Tesla Model X. The only EV 7-seater SUV's available.
- Thread starter kizamybute'
- Start date
Absolutely, if the crazy insane acceleration is of that much importance to a buyer, then the Tesla wins that debate. The Rivian's however, are no slouches at 3.0 to 3.1 0-60 mph. I compared to a MX Long Range because of pricing and performance being more competitive. The Plaid, for another $30,000 to $40,000 to get you a bigger motor with quicker acceleration is something that will have that kind of value to those in which 3.1 0-60 is not enough. 3.1 does pretty much beat just about anything on the road, other than the Tesla S&X performance models.
I don't understand the obsession with speed. Considering most of our roads are super congested these days, you'd think that efficiency and comfort were more important to folks. I guess that's why the make the MX LR.
Yep Rivian r1s is definitely no slouch with the 0-60. But its the 60-130mph that most electric cars fall on their face and become non competitive with ICE counterparts. I am not sure how the rivian handles highway passing power but with quad motors, I bet its adequate. curious if anyone has done a draggy with one.
The beauty of the plaid is that its pretty much as efficient and just as comfortable as the LR. You lose about 15mi of range but gain about 400hp. I probably will never notice the slight range decrease but I will definitely notice the power difference on a daily basis. Its not that I speed everywhere but a quick blast on an on ramp once or twice a day has replaced coffee in the mornings for me so im considering it an investment into my health. In all seriousness though absolutely no one NEEDS the plaid. the LR is plenty fast enough and even does decently well on highway passing power. But the plaid is unlike anything else and for the price compared to anything even close to the realm of 60-130 highway acceleration/passing power, its an absolute bargain.
I don't have actual performance numbers, but personally, and certainly the Tesla Performance versions will zip up to speed on the highway for passing power quicker, but I haven't ever felt like I was lacking in passing power with the Rivian. It's a truck or boxy SUV and I don't think is allowed to do 130 MPH (governed), but it accelerates pretty darn quick when I'm trying to pass someone on the freeway.
With regards to the second part of your reply, other than keeping my wallet $30,000-$40,000 heavier, there's no measurable sacrifice with buying the Performance Tesla over the Long Range version. As you noted, the range loss is minimal. For me, I'm one that very rarely ever "floors it", so I just get no benefit from it being able to get to 60 MPH in 2 seconds rather than 3 seconds. So for someone like me, I gain nothing by spending the extra $30,000 to $40,000. One of my many Tesla's was a Performance model and I think I floored it twice, simply to show passengers what it could do. The Raven LR improved 0-60 times by a large margin. Interestingly enough, I got the same reaction from passengers when I floored it in that car as I did when I did the same in the previous "Performance" version.
My biggest issue with spending the $30,000 to $40,000 is that includes absolutely nothing but the added power. Most cars, the Performance version at least includes: sportier wheels, often time some type of sporty appearance features incorporated into the body work, better handling suspension, among other things. Even Tesla offers more with the Model 3 performance package than they do with the S. The Model 3 gets you performance wheels, lower ride height, sportier suspension, spoiler, etc. For what $8,000 to $10,000. The Model S gets you a bigger rear motor for $30,000 to $40,000. A big chunk of money for ONLY quicker acceleration, over a car that already accelerates pretty damn quickly in the LR version.
Ah yeah for $30-40k I wouldn’t even question getting an LR over a plaid. I wasn’t lucky enough to order when it was $89k for the LRX though. By the time I ordered the price differential between a Long Range and Plaid X was $12k. So it was either fsd or plaid, I opted for plaid. Maybe that was dumb and I’ll regret not getting a robotaxi instead sometime down the road but for now, I’m enjoying the hell out of the plaid. I hope the resale value stays higher longer too unless elons prophecy comes true and everyone with FSD will have appreciating assets and I look like a fool in my fast egg.
If you got it for $12,000, that was a steal. Your resale value will be good. Those paying $30k+ for it, take a pretty big hit on resale value. Seems like most Performance or Plaid models only sell around $10-15K higher than LR versions.
wow you're right, wasnt expecting that. cheapest LR im finding is $119k meanwhile you could get this for $10k more?
$162k sticker built 2 months ago dropped down to $129k wow... thats brutal.
I've had 3 MXs, the first two were 2016 and 2019, leased. I bought a refreshed LR which I ordered June 2021 with the intention of buying out my 2019 lease and using the profit as a down payment to buy the new one which was finally delivered at the end of August, 2022. Just for context, the price for my 7 seater--including FSD--was $105k, which is a lot lower than the current price. So for me, the cost comparison is not particularly relevant.
But from reading these posts, the debate seems to boil down to several things.
Off-Road Capability. It seems the most compelling advantage of the Rivian is its off-road capability. For the vast majority of people--including me--who have no need or desire for off-road use, that is a non-factor. In any event, enthusiasm for that functionality must, at least for now, be tempered by potential range-anxiety due to Rivian's more limited charging infrastructure.
Third Row. From what has been said, Rivian's 3rd row does appear to be more comfortable for adults. There's no question the third row in the MX is not wonderful for larger adults, although the split 2nd row does allow some flexibility. With the exception of my slender, 5'2" daughter-in-law, the occupants have always been kids and regardless I'd be pretty skeptical about a long trip back there for anyone. But for piling a bunch of adults and kids in the car to go somewhere it's perfectly fine.
Yoke steering wheel. Although perhaps the biggest bone of contention now, I think it is a temporary tempest in a teapot. Having seen the online static about it, I was more than a bit apprehensive while waiting for my car to arrive. Like many others who have them, however, I can unequivocally say I absolutely love it and predict it will be commonplace in the near future. Perhaps my observations may help those who haven't really experienced it for themselves.
Minimalist Interior. People inevitably have a negative knee-jerk reaction to radical departures from anything they're used to and this is no exception. I loved the interior of my previous MXs and did not welcome the new interior...until I drove my wife's MY which she got last December and saw how much it improved the driving experience and made the interior of my MX--an otherwise vastly superior car--feel outdated. Not only is the screen much more functional, things you may think have disappeared are actually improved. The more effective use of screen real estate enable things like pop-up side cameras when a turn signal is activated and multiple windows. You might be worried about the absence of physical vents but gestures on the screen provide much better control of the airflow. Those are just a few examples, but I wouldn't go back to the old interior in any way. BTW, I do agree the Tesla's manual frunk is oddly out of keeping with everything else about the MX, but that's really a nitpick.
Sorry for the length of this, but my take-away is the Rivian is no doubt a fine car--and a better choice for some people. But today, for the vast majority of people who want a luxury electric SUV, for all the reasons stated in the prior posts, the MX has to be the 1st choice.
But from reading these posts, the debate seems to boil down to several things.
Off-Road Capability. It seems the most compelling advantage of the Rivian is its off-road capability. For the vast majority of people--including me--who have no need or desire for off-road use, that is a non-factor. In any event, enthusiasm for that functionality must, at least for now, be tempered by potential range-anxiety due to Rivian's more limited charging infrastructure.
Third Row. From what has been said, Rivian's 3rd row does appear to be more comfortable for adults. There's no question the third row in the MX is not wonderful for larger adults, although the split 2nd row does allow some flexibility. With the exception of my slender, 5'2" daughter-in-law, the occupants have always been kids and regardless I'd be pretty skeptical about a long trip back there for anyone. But for piling a bunch of adults and kids in the car to go somewhere it's perfectly fine.
Yoke steering wheel. Although perhaps the biggest bone of contention now, I think it is a temporary tempest in a teapot. Having seen the online static about it, I was more than a bit apprehensive while waiting for my car to arrive. Like many others who have them, however, I can unequivocally say I absolutely love it and predict it will be commonplace in the near future. Perhaps my observations may help those who haven't really experienced it for themselves.
- You cannot imagine how much the top of the wheel intrudes in your line of sight until it's absent. The minute I drove my new car off the lot the sense of a virtually unlimited field of view almost took my breath away--the yoke and front glass combine to create the feeling of sitting at the console of the Starship Enterprise.
- Other than the horn and gear shifting which I'll say a little more about, using controls on the yoke instead of levers and stalks is infinitely superior. It doesn't take long to get acclimated and when you drive another car you'll appreciate the difference. Some of it requires learning the multiple functions of the scroll wheels. For example, one poster complained that the yoke's turn signals are where the media controls used to be. But the left scroll wheel does all of that when using the media player.
- Another factor commonly overlooked in this debate is the use of voice commands. Click here to see the wide range of things you can tell the car to do for which you'd otherwise have to take your hands off the wheel.
- As to the horn, yes, I don't understand why it's not in the center, but I hardly ever use the horn anyway and the times I do I can easily look to see where it is. In a true split-second emergency the horn is not likely to help much anyway, and the most important thing is focusing on navigating to avoid the trouble.
- Shifting between drive and reverse is accomplished byt swiping up or down on the edge of the touch screen. I thought it would be a hassle but it really isn't. I will say a series of 3-point turns to realign the car feels a little more cumbersome, but that's certainly not a big deal.
- Overall, for me at least, I quickly became accustomed to the yoke and it feels like I have a much more direct connection to the car than the conventional wheel and other controls. Yes, it is a matter of personal preference but shouldn't be a decision point without actually experiencing the yoke for yourself. If it's really a problem, however, good 3rd-party full wheel replacements are available at a cost which shouldn't be a factor considering how much you're spending for the car. It's a fraction of what people spend on wraps or other add-ons.
Sorry for the length of this, but my take-away is the Rivian is no doubt a fine car--and a better choice for some people. But today, for the vast majority of people who want a luxury electric SUV, for all the reasons stated in the prior posts, the MX has to be the 1st choice.
I don't disagree with any of that. A few points though:
1) The Rivian seems to have a lot more room in the 3rd row. For those of us with growing kids, that's a big factor.
2) The frunk on the R1S appears to be larger than the one in the MX. That could be an issue for folks with lots of kids. Storage is king.
3) It appears to be easier to install a rooftop box on the Rivian than the MX (nearly impossible on the MX due the gullwing doors).
4) The yoke steering wheel has its advantages, but
(a) yoke steering wheels work better in Formula 1 cars with professional drivers because well....they're pros
(b) in an emergency maneuver, most regular folks will revert to muscle memory and instinct. It seems a traditional wheel would be easier to manage in those situations.
5) The Supercharger network is a huge advantage for Tesla for now. Many of the non-Tesla DC chargers are broken or perform below their specs.
6) The price of the R1S is compelling compared to the MX. IMO Tesla has raised the price of the MX too high too fast.
I'll assume you are correct about points 1-3, but all of that seems to relate to trips with a lot of folks and a lot of gear. Balance that against #5 and that gives a little more balance to the equation. You live in Northern California where that kind of stuff is more popular, but I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a rooftop box on any luxury SUV where I am. Which brings us to what seems to be the biggest issue in many people's minds.
The common concern is with turns requiring more than 120-180 degrees. At least for me, I've found you can pretty easily turn between 180-270 degrees with just a few fingers of one hand pushing against the cross piece, while the wheel slides through the other hand which can easily grab the corners as they come around. It's hard to explain on paper, but a little first-hand experience is often helpful before rushing to judgment.
If you really want total control, however, what about one of those steering (a/k/a "suicide") knobs? There are a ton of them on Amazon and they are specifically designed for rapid one-handed turning. And I repeat--if it's really an issue, a good third-party wheel is about $750, a whole lot less than a roof top carrier. What I haven't said--and have no basis for comparison to the Rivian on this issue--is how wonderful this iteration is to drive, regardless of the wheel. My biggest gripe about my 2 prior cars was the road noise and the overall ride. The difference in this one is astounding. The car is quieter and more comfortable to drive than my prior BMW 7, and that's saying a lot.
Also, I assume you've seen what Lexus has announced for its new Rz450e:
The times, they are a changin'.
I would probably have said the same thing before I actually used one. I know this is a serious hot button for people and has energized a lot of really vehement haters and predictions of doom. All I can say is after several weeks I feel like I have far better control of the car with the yoke than with a conventional wheel. Because of the design you have a much more secure grip and making abrupt sharp maneuvers--something I thankfully haven't had to do in a real emergency--feels far more controlled because you can push the wheel one way or another without having to reposition your hands.
The common concern is with turns requiring more than 120-180 degrees. At least for me, I've found you can pretty easily turn between 180-270 degrees with just a few fingers of one hand pushing against the cross piece, while the wheel slides through the other hand which can easily grab the corners as they come around. It's hard to explain on paper, but a little first-hand experience is often helpful before rushing to judgment.
If you really want total control, however, what about one of those steering (a/k/a "suicide") knobs? There are a ton of them on Amazon and they are specifically designed for rapid one-handed turning. And I repeat--if it's really an issue, a good third-party wheel is about $750, a whole lot less than a roof top carrier. What I haven't said--and have no basis for comparison to the Rivian on this issue--is how wonderful this iteration is to drive, regardless of the wheel. My biggest gripe about my 2 prior cars was the road noise and the overall ride. The difference in this one is astounding. The car is quieter and more comfortable to drive than my prior BMW 7, and that's saying a lot.
Also, I assume you've seen what Lexus has announced for its new Rz450e:
The times, they are a changin'.
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if you want further evidence, try going back to a round wheel after you’ve gotten used to the yoke. A real pain! The only thing I don’t really like about the yoke is the maneuver to go between drive and reverse on the screen, is still clumsy.
We use a rooftop box when we don't have enough room to store all our stuff. It's not for short trips, but for our treks from NorCal up to British Columbia where we spend the entire summer. In our case, when we look at a SUV, since we have 3 kids and a dog, we assume that we will be using at least 5 seats and whatever room the dog needs. The rest is for luggage. We could probably bring all we need with us in the MX or the R1S, but it's always nice to have the option of a rooftop box should we need to use one. I know folks can use a rear hitch mounted box as well, but that involves turning off the reverse parking sensors. And of course the vehicle is longer. I'm looking at the SUV from the perspective of a people and stuff mover, not so much as a luxury suv. Lord knows we have too many single drivers of big vehicles already lol.
I don't disagree with you on the yoke that much. I'm sure one could get used to it. Prefer it? I'm not so sure but who knows?
The two biggest issues are:
1) the price - the MX is just not realistically priced right now. A 7 seat MX LR is $128k right now, before taxes. The R1S is a full $30k less.
2) Charging network - Tesla obviously has a far superior charging network. As I stated previously, broken or underperforming non-Tesla DC chargers are all too common.
So for me at least, it comes down to is the $30k premium of the MX worth the hassle of finding functioning non-Tesla DC chargers? Well, if Tesla opens up its supercharger network (a bad move IMO), then the point becomes moot. And if these other DC charging companies like EA, EVgo, etc., finally provide the maintenance to keep their chargers working, then it may not be as big of an issue either.
Either way, if you order a MX now, it'll be at least a year before you get it. If you order a R1S now, it'll be 2-3 years before you get it. The EV landscape will be different in 2-3 years.
I agree with all that. I ordered mine a year ago when it was $30k less, and I'm not sure what I'd do if I had to decide now. I'd certainly give a long look at whatever BMW and Mercedes are selling too. It's just that Tesla has such a head start on everyone it's hard not to give that real consideration. That price must be a reflection of supply and demand and it if includes FSD you can always just rent that rather than buying it.
And I agree 1000% about the charging network. That would be a disaster..
And I agree 1000% about the charging network. That would be a disaster..
Great write up and great thread...I have never driven either but have drawn similar observations when comparing the 2 on paper. I own a model Y and would like to replace our 3 row Telluride with an EV so I have looked at these 2 options in detail. As mentioned, these are really the only 2 options now to replace a vehicle like a Telluride.
At one point I had an R1S on order, pre price hike, but ended up cancelling it mainly because the nearest service center is about 5 hours away. Unfortunately the Model X, at $140,000 for the 6 seater, is also a hard pass just based on price alone...no way I am spending what people buy houses for around me on a car. Also, not sure the Yoke would go over well with the wife.
I prefer the look and utility of the R1S, and obviously the price. Unfortunately I don't expect a Service Center to open near me anytime soon and the public charging network is horrible around here.
So basically we will be holding onto the Telluride longer. Once the new Kia EV9 is released I will have to take a hard look at that. Looks to be an electric version of the Telluride, which would be perfect for us. Road tripping wouldn't be nearly as great as in a Tesla but if the EV9 is half the price of the Model X, it may still be worth it.
At one point I had an R1S on order, pre price hike, but ended up cancelling it mainly because the nearest service center is about 5 hours away. Unfortunately the Model X, at $140,000 for the 6 seater, is also a hard pass just based on price alone...no way I am spending what people buy houses for around me on a car. Also, not sure the Yoke would go over well with the wife.
I prefer the look and utility of the R1S, and obviously the price. Unfortunately I don't expect a Service Center to open near me anytime soon and the public charging network is horrible around here.
So basically we will be holding onto the Telluride longer. Once the new Kia EV9 is released I will have to take a hard look at that. Looks to be an electric version of the Telluride, which would be perfect for us. Road tripping wouldn't be nearly as great as in a Tesla but if the EV9 is half the price of the Model X, it may still be worth it.
If the EV9 has decent range, it'll be a big hit. The Telluride is a great SUV and if Kia can make an EV SUV that has at least similar 3rd row legroom, that thing is going to sell really well.
I haven’t had a need to use a rooftop box or trailer hitch mounted box but I would think a trailer hitch mounted box would be preferably for efficiency no? I’ve rode in cars with roof boxes before and it seems like they always have a constant whistle which I would find annoying. Personally I’d probably take hitch mounted bike racks over roof and same with cargo baskets over roof boxes purely due to drag and efficiency.
I prefer the rooftop box because it doesn't interfere with the rear parking sensors. Also the trailer hitch boxes make our vehicle too long for some of the areas we park in. Fortunately we don't hear any whistling from the box. I've got a medium sized box and I set it further back so that we don't hear the whistle. YMMV.
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