Fisker Karma

[doug]

I have never heard of the DOE giving any pressure to Tesla to repay the loan early (in fact they let Tesla off on some of the terms a while back when cash was tight). AFAIK Tesla repaying the loan early is just for the PR value. Is this just the reporter trying to fit things into his narrative?

Yeah, I noticed that. It makes some sense, but I'm not sure if it's true or not. Either way, Tesla made it a PR win.

 

[doug]

I was merely pointing out Fiskers first attempt was a 4 door , verse telsa 2dr roadster. Same issues with first cars.. You do remember the issues with roadster ? Luckily it did not kill off telsa effort to make its second version..

The difference was that Tesla maintained (for the most part) good communication with the customers, giving reasonable explanations for the Roadster delays, coming up with a solution to get deliveries started with a plan to retrofit. They also quickly iterated after the first 500 cars to get costs down and improve performance. Also the Roadster goes like stink.
Expectations are rather different between a little convertible sports car and a luxury sedan.

 

[brianman]

Only in the sense that with more successful EV companies, more EV users, it puts the message out there that the ICE age can end. More users also equals more infrastructure. Remember, Elon's goal is not just to sell cars, but to sell the idea that EV's are real cars.

I see it differently.

Fisker didn't make EVs. They made "mixed propulsion technology vehicles" (since apparently Hybrid is now an offensive term). If anything, Fisker's vehicles were contributing to buyer and market confusion by playing games with names like "EREV".

 

[vfx]

... You do remember the issues with roadster ? Luckily it did not kill off telsa effort to make its second version..

And Tesla got through all all the Roadster troubles just fine. And all before fed money came along for the sedan.



BTW

At our club meet this weekend (14 cars at Supercar S) I had 4 people ask if Tesla was declaring bankruptcy.

 

[spatterso911]

I see it differently.

Fisker didn't make EVs. They made "mixed propulsion technology vehicles" (since apparently Hybrid is now an offensive term). If anything, Fisker's vehicles were contributing to buyer and market confusion by playing games with names like "EREV".

I agree that the terminology was confusing, and most people can't tell the difference between a Tesla and a Fisker. I still get asked to show them where the engine is that charges the battery. Always shock and awe when they find out there is no such thing in the Tesla. But nevertheless, the Fisker still needed to get plugged in once in a while in order to justify the label, and that develops a demand for infrastructure from stores, employers, government facilities, and the like. The more plug in vehicles on the road, the better for all plug in vehicles, regardless of battery size. Plus, bad press is bad press. At this point, Tesla stands virtually alone in the arena, as depicted in multiple articles. More success stories equals more investment, more public interest, less political pressure.

 

[scottf200]

I see it differently. Fisker didn't make EVs. They made "mixed propulsion technology vehicles" (since apparently Hybrid is now an offensive term). If anything, Fisker's vehicles were contributing to buyer and market confusion by playing games with names like "EREV".

They could drive electric miles just the same as a LEAF or a Tesla. I have 21K electric miles (27K total) on my Volt. Miles driven in these cars off the grid/solar are the same as BEVs. Hybrids use the ICE to charge the battery vs using it from the grid/solar.

 

[kenliles]

The difference was that Tesla maintained (for the most part) good communication with the customers, giving reasonable explanations for the Roadster delays, coming up with a solution to get deliveries started with a plan to retrofit. They also quickly iterated after the first 500 cars to get costs down and improve performance. Also the Roadster goes like stink.
Expectations are rather different between a little convertible sports car and a luxury sedan.

Which is why it makes you really appreciate a CEO like Musk. Who also exceeding expectations with the Tesla luxury sedan, making none of the mistakes of his competitor

 

[doug]

And now these guys are going to be dragged in front of congress two days after the loan payment is due:

House Republicans Plan a Hearing on Fisker - Washington Wire - WSJ

House Republicans are preparing to hold a hearing April 24 on a government loan to hybrid-sports-car maker Fisker Automotive Inc., according to documents viewed by The Wall Street Journal.
...

The hearing would give Republicans yet another forum to criticize the Obama administration’s loans to start-up energy companies — a theme that has already helped undermine support on Capitol Hill for big-ticket spending programs to help renewable-energy and electric-vehicle companies move to full commercial production.
...

The committee has asked Henrik Fisker, the company’s co-founder, Tony Posawatz, the company’s chief executive, and Bernhard Koehler, its chief operating officer, to testify.

The committee also invited David Frantz, a career staffer who heads the Department of Energy’s loan programs office, and Lachlan Seward, former director of the office’s Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program.

Rep. Jim Jordan, the Ohio Republican who chairs the committee’s panel on economic growth, told invitees the hearing would focus on taxpayer support Fisker received.

So I guess Jeff Bridges is too old to play Henrik.

 

[aaronw]

I feel sorry for the Karma owners

Things just seem to keep getting worse and worse. It now seems that many Fisker dealers are no longer providing service or warranty repairs unless all expenses are paid out-of-pocket. Fisker shut down their dealership website and is no longer answering the phones for technical support from what I'm hearing. It also sounds like some Fisker owners are trying to dump their cars since getting repairs and parts is now a problem and they can't even trade them in.

What I'm curious about is what did Fisker do with all that money they got from investors?

 

[vfx]

And now these guys are going to be dragged in front of congress two days after the loan payment is due:...

I'll drink a root beer for evey time Tesla is mentioned!

 

[bonnie]

So... Bob Lutz. Did he get into the Fisker makeover business because he saw this coming? Or did he get blind sided?

 

[Grendal]

Things just seem to keep getting worse and worse. It now seems that many Fisker dealers are no longer providing service or warranty repairs unless all expenses are paid out-of-pocket. Fisker shut down their dealership website and is no longer answering the phones for technical support from what I'm hearing. It also sounds like some Fisker owners are trying to dump their cars since getting repairs and parts is now a problem and they can't even trade them in.

What I'm curious about is what did Fisker do with all that money they got from investors?

Building cars is expensive and having a lot of workers is even more expensive. Overhead, lots of overhead, is my guess.

I'd like to see someone step up as a roving Karma mechanic.

 

[Nin ja]

The difference was that Tesla maintained (for the most part) good communication with the customers, giving reasonable explanations for the Roadster delays, coming up with a solution to get deliveries started with a plan to retrofit. They also quickly iterated after the first 500 cars to get costs down and improve performance. Also the Roadster goes like stink.
Expectations are rather different between a little convertible sports car and a luxury sedan.

Again, I'm not trying to compare , Doug you know there is no disagreement between the two firms execution , but the employees at Fisker did a nice job as did Telsa employees , take this to a new level and let's look at the positives verse trying to get one up as in my car is better then yours - to each his own!

 

[rolosrevenge]

I'll drink a root beer for evey time Tesla is mentioned!

I wholeheartedly endorse this!

 

[doug]

Former Fisker CEO seeks aid to testify before Congress | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

In an interview late Wednesday, Fisker said he had asked for reimbursement for travel expenses after discussing the issue with a House staff member.

"If they are not going to reimburse me as guided by (a staff member), I am still planning to travel on my own expense to testify as I have nothing to hide."

Fisker told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that he received nothing when he left Fisker Automotive Inc.

"I do not have a job or permanent income at the moment. I left the company without any severance, benefits, or pension or any equity," Fisker told the committee in an email Wednesday.

Fisker said he has stock options that represent less than 0.7 percent of Fisker "which are not liquid and have no value."

 

[doug]

Tesla again getting swept in with the "losers": Another green jobs bust? | Fox News Video

Slate's response:
Sarah Palin, Bill O'Reilly call Tesla, Fisker "losers:" An idiot's guide to electric-car startups. -- Slate.com

Let's recap. Fisker: loser. Tesla: not a loser.

 

[ljbad4life]

They could drive electric miles just the same as a LEAF or a Tesla. I have 21K electric miles (27K total) on my Volt. Miles driven in these cars off the grid/solar are the same as BEVs. Hybrids use the ICE to charge the battery vs using it from the grid/solar.

I think a point of contention with the Karma in this regard is that it cannot achieve its full performance without using gas (the ICE must also cycle on and off occasionally even during EV mode), While the Volt (when in charge depleting mode) performs at it's stated performance (0-60) and when in EV mode the ICE stays off.

 

[doug]

Fisker Drama Could Overshadow Electric Vehicle Industry - US News and World Report

Troubles at Fisker mean the DOE's loan program could come under siege again by House Republicans, who have chided the agency's program in the past, most prominently for a recent $535 million loan to the now-defunct solar-panel manufacturer Solyndra.

... drama at Fisker could overshadow the industry's gains and stain its reputation among would-be car buyers, according to experts.

"It can put doubt into the mid of consumers," says Alec Gutierrez, senior market analyst of automotive insights for Kelley Blue Book. "These aren't big, big manufacturers and if they run into issues and aren't backed by a Nissan or a Chevrolet, that's where the issue arises."

"Someone who was perhaps considering a Fisker originally or a Tesla, even though they're doing just fine, might have some concerns," Gutierrez added.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Again, I'm not trying to compare , Doug you know there is no disagreement between the two firms execution , but the employees at Fisker did a nice job as did Telsa employees , take this to a new level and let's look at the positives verse trying to get one up as in my car is better then yours - to each his own!

Well this thread is not really about comparing cars, but rather to see why Fisker failed. This will necessarily mean looking mainly at negatives. My motivation behind the question is for Tesla (and other new companies that may come in the future) to avoid making the same mistakes.

 

[pxy]

Tesla again getting swept in with the "losers": Another green jobs bust? | Fox News Video

...Holding in the urge to throw the TV so hard because this is the news people seem to remember for years. I believe, and I think the DOE believes, that the chance of any one of these companies succeeding alone was worth the losses of those that failed, i.e. venture capital. The immediate return has been jobs in a waning automotive and manufacturing industry. The long term investment has always been sustainable growth in major GDP industries of Manufacturing, Transportation, and Utilities. To use familiar wording, DOE is trying to create the best jobs that just happen to be green.