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#FixPhantomBraking
- Thread starter Valtor
- Start date
Tam
Well-Known Member
Which versions are we talking about?
1) Older radar-active version (cars sold before 4/27/2021)
or
2) Newer radarless/pure-vision version (North America Model 3 and Y sold on 4/27/2021 onward, or those on FSD beta)
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Tam
Well-Known Member
My guess is, in theory, an FSD-related problem (cruising/phantom brakes is a subset of FSD) can be solved "soon" with a reasonable timeline.
However, when it's time for reality, it might be a very long time and with an unreasonable timeline.
I have a 2019 M3. So radar-active as of this writing. But really the issue exists with all models and versions. At least they could give us an option to enable a dumber version of TACC that acts just like a regular Adaptive Cruise Control while they figure things out with TACC and Autopilot.
If we define phantom braking as the hard braking events caused by false positives, I think this will definitely fixed over time. Vision-only needs more work for sure. but I don't think unanticipated braking events need to be fully eliminated. Just like when you ride with someone else who is a safe driver but brakes more than you, there's no single universal way to drive safely. The car may always apply brakes where you might not have. And that's ok, as long as it's done safely and gets you to your destination comfortably.
This is utter bullcrap, to the point it makes me wonder if you are a Tesla plant. Driving down a road at 70 MPH with a car behind you, then suddenly slamming the brakes is HUGELY unsafe - like dangerous dangerous. Cruise Control was a solved problem half a century ago - Tesla should not be let off the hook for this terrible programming. At a minimum, there should be a way to turn any and all safety related add-ons such that cruise control is ONLY speed maintenance.
But no, even a new 15 year-old driver behind the wheel for the first time isn't going to stand on the brakes on a clear road.
The forcefulness of the braking is defined by the auto emergency braking feature. If the car thinks a collision is imminent, it will slam on the brakes to reduce impact. This is a good thing when it works correctly. Unfortunately we're at a state where we still get false positives of imminent collision when in reality there's no danger.
Cruise control was solved a half-century ago? The cruise control I've known over the decades requires full driver attention to prevent forward collisions. Attempting to avoid collisions is a relatively new development in the last decade, and most systems are terrible at it. These are hard problems to solve, regardless of how capable a 15-yr old teen is.
I am not a Tesla plant. A company that disbanded its PR dept hires random people to post on internet forums? We have truly become a country full of conspiracy theorists.
There is no reason whatsoever to make the forward collision thing *mandatory*, especially when it doesn't work. It's the car that cried wolf - it reacts to an emergency a couple thousand times for every 1 actual emergency. It's a total joke of a system. Get it working, then make it mandatory. But right now they should let people have cruise control without the associated junk programming.
Tam
Well-Known Member
You mean "default" because at each drive, you can turn it off if you want to override the default.
I get the feeling that we don't get the option because it could be seen as an admission that there is an issue.
I was really hoping that Vision Only would fix it, but it seems to make things worse instead. I guess the data model "sees" more phantom/false issues than the radar was "seeing".
IMHO the emergency braking should not activate unless the ultrasonic sensors really detects something.
DDotJ
Member
The ultrasonics are not suitable for AEB. They are too short range and are really only useful at low speeds due to latency. Tesla used ultrasonics for blind spot monitoring before they started using cameras and it was really bad.
‘I mean, if they do that then the car won’t emergency brake before you’ve already plowed into the obstacle ahead. Ultrasonics are short range.
But with all that being said, I remain ever optimistic that when FSD beta is no longer beta and used as the code base for Autopilot, this should fix it.
Tam
Well-Known Member
In the release note, Tesla calls it "false slowdowns".
I use "phantom brakes" for any and all known and unknown factors that cause an undesirable deceleration. It could be bad programming, bad imports of GPS coded speed limits, bad radar, bad detection, bad system decisions, physical brakes or no-physical brakes, a lot or a little... but the effect is still the same: there's a deceleration that an average human driver would not do that.
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I've had the brakes applied quite forcefully at high speeds over nothing at all - it grates on the nerves like nothing else. I'm talking braking like I was standing on the pedal. and with nothing whatsoever in the road. Just frustrating as hell.
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