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Florida Light and Power Moves Against Net Metering

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dfwatt

Best Car Ever
Sep 24, 2018
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I'm frankly puzzled that there isn't more about this pending Florida bill within Tesla Energy, or for that matter within the Tesla energy forms. It's nothing less than a total giveaway to Florida Power & Light. I won't bore you with all our dismal experiences with FPL but they are God-awful outfit. It is impossible to reach them, they are never accountable, they have never actually paid for any of the enormous number of kilowatts (into the megawatt hour range) in terms of the excess energy that we have sent into the grid, and it took them four months to connect our house in the grid when it was built, and then only after threats from an attorney – and I suspect their foot dragging was because they knew solar was going on the house. They're one of the worst rated utilities in the country in terms of customer service gathering 1/5 stars by most consumers.

I hear nothing from Tesla about organized pushback, and it appears that once again utility interests and the profits of shareholders take priority over actual customer needs – FPL is only following the playbook set in California where legislation is pending that will essentially guarantee that solar systems save you zero dollars on your electric bill. The best part is how the plutocrats and the privately owned "public utility" of FPL are framing this punitive tax on home solar systems in terms of "social justice" concepts – that solar power and net metering are a way to have the poor subsidize the rich, while a punitive tax on solar means that poor people will get a break on their electric bill. What a joke. It's about as realistic as Putin's claim that he's in Ukraine to topple Nazis. Just like with Putin, the statements from FPL are all projection of FPL's own corporate greed, avarice and entitlement. In addition, they're hoping to block any further progress towards a decentralized grid, making sure that they sit in the driver seat and can charge whatever they want as a complete monopoly.

We need to take this threat seriously because the abolition of net metering and the punitive connection fee of $25-30 a month (we're already paying $10 a month for that connection fee) will essentially mean that rooftop solar has no viable payback, that progress towards a decentralized grid may stall completely, and that companies that for years have been disseminating climate denial continue to laugh all the way to the bank.

Please advise if someone knows of organized grassroots efforts to expose this latest bull---- from FPL.
 
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Not sure what your point is there Bobby? Are you talking about FPL shutting down their systems? Or rooftop solar owners? If you're talking about FPL they already do that regularly. FPL has the highest number of brownouts and service interruptions in Florida
 
So I don't repeat myself here is what I posted in the parallel discussion about California's war on net metering:

 
Good luck. Just think, if CA struggles with this kind of BS, do you really think you have a chance in FL?
Batteries is your solution - at least your sun pairs up well with your usage. The winter in many areas makes going off grid with batteries a bit harder.
At some point, what do you expect FPL to do - not maximize profits? And are that not supposed to use their friendly politicians to make that happen? Your governor and legislature like to pretend climate change isn't worth the trouble.
Move or batteries or engage in politics. Not sure grassroots is going to cut it but maybe in 10 years you can change your politicians...

I'm in NC where we still have reasonably solar friendly policies. Definitely not comfortable with them long-term though. I pay $14 a month for grid connectivity but so do all rate payers. Net metering that zeros out May 31. Hard to make it through Dec and Jan up here though with heatpumps (and the thirstier cars in the cold) even with a large array. In much of Fl, I could be off grid with my array.
 
Good luck. Just think, if CA struggles with this kind of BS, do you really think you have a chance in FL?
Batteries is your solution - at least your sun pairs up well with your usage. The winter in many areas makes going off grid with batteries a bit harder.
At some point, what do you expect FPL to do - not maximize profits? And are that not supposed to use their friendly politicians to make that happen? Your governor and legislature like to pretend climate change isn't worth the trouble.
Move or batteries or engage in politics. Not sure grassroots is going to cut it but maybe in 10 years you can change your politicians...

I'm in NC where we still have reasonably solar friendly policies. Definitely not comfortable with them long-term though. I pay $14 a month for grid connectivity but so do all rate payers. Net metering that zeros out May 31. Hard to make it through Dec and Jan up here though with heatpumps (and the thirstier cars in the cold) even with a large array. In much of Fl, I could be off grid with my array.

No, in Florida you can't be off grid. There's no way out. Well, I guess you can live in an RV.
 
Good luck. Just think, if CA struggles with this kind of BS, do you really think you have a chance in FL?
Batteries is your solution - at least your sun pairs up well with your usage. The winter in many areas makes going off grid with batteries a bit harder.
At some point, what do you expect FPL to do - not maximize profits? And are that not supposed to use their friendly politicians to make that happen? Your governor and legislature like to pretend climate change isn't worth the trouble.
Move or batteries or engage in politics. Not sure grassroots is going to cut it but maybe in 10 years you can change your politicians...

I'm in NC where we still have reasonably solar friendly policies. Definitely not comfortable with them long-term though. I pay $14 a month for grid connectivity but so do all rate payers. Net metering that zeros out May 31. Hard to make it through Dec and Jan up here though with heatpumps (and the thirstier cars in the cold) even with a large array. In much of Fl, I could be off grid with my array.
yes, the prognosis, as we would say in my field, is not great. Hopefully, Tesla has enough clout and resources to throw some lobbying cash around - after all if the power companies can get representatives to lie for money, perhaps we can get some to speak truth, if they get paid. Sorry to be so cynical about our govmint, but it is what it is. Government for hire.
 
Curious why you can't be off grid in Florida? Is it not the land of the free?
I can see various municipalities claiming a code issue but there is no code enforcement after permits are signed off. Is the electric utility police going to come after you if you just stop paying?
Rules forcing someone to pay money are hard to enforce. I mean - car insurance is one thing but many people get away with that.
Now, I suppose your home owner's insurance could require a grid connection. That just requires being comfortable not listening to them and being hopeful it never comes back to bite you.
 
Curious why you can't be off grid in Florida? Is it not the land of the free?
I can see various municipalities claiming a code issue but there is no code enforcement after permits are signed off. Is the electric utility police going to come after you if you just stop paying?
Rules forcing someone to pay money are hard to enforce. I mean - car insurance is one thing but many people get away with that.
Now, I suppose your home owner's insurance could require a grid connection. That just requires being comfortable not listening to them and being hopeful it never comes back to bite you.
Never mind. I was wrong. There are no limitations on being off-grid for electricity. Sorry.
 
A quick search for this topic seems to indicate ALEC (EV drivers beware, ALEC is coming for your solar power) is one of the parties behind this, at least that's what some of the below allege:
 
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Curious why you can't be off grid in Florida? Is it not the land of the free?
I can see various municipalities claiming a code issue but there is no code enforcement after permits are signed off. Is the electric utility police going to come after you if you just stop paying?
Rules forcing someone to pay money are hard to enforce. I mean - car insurance is one thing but many people get away with that.
Now, I suppose your home owner's insurance could require a grid connection. That just requires being comfortable not listening to them and being hopeful it never comes back to bite you.
You could be off the grid for sure in Florida but it moves the goal post in terms of cost from the upper-middle class territory to something affordable only by people who are just plain rich. In other words they could probably afford the $150,000+ system that it would take to truly bulletproof yourself with 6 to 7 batteries and a big backup fossil fuel generator. And that's assuming that you're not powering up a very large house which tends to be where the wealthy live such that your cost might vector towards $200k - still an attractive option but folks with that kind of money tend not to mind paying utilities even their normal exorbitant rates.
 
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Here's a recent example of the kind of bought and paid for shilling by Florida State Congresswoman Jennifer Carroll where she pretty much pitches FPL's argument. Please do write into the Tallahassee Democrat to express any countervailing opinions you might have: The problem with government incentives for rooftop solar | Opinion

Notable counterfactual Statements in this bought-and-paid-for opinion piece include:
1) that rooftop solar power is only for rich people (hah!) and that net metering constitutes a subsidy for solar (Does not mention either monthly connection fees or #2)
2) that you receive true one-for-one value on every kilowatt pumped back into the grid – this is absolutely not true as your monthly credit so to speak terminates at the end of the month and in our systems for example we backfeed more than a megawatt into the grid every year, for which we receive no compensation and no credit whatsoever.
3) that the actual infrastructure costs are not covered by the connection fee or by the uncompensated backfeeding into the grid, without a shred of evidence for this, and without any forensic grade accounting for what constitutes legitimate infrastructure costs – I guess we're just supposed to take FPL's word for it?
4) that policies favoring the utility companies are part of a "free-market approach" benefiting poor people while net metering is a giveaway to the wealthy.

Gag me!
 
I'm Ok with people having a Minimium FPL charge with netmetering but heck.... I've got a 11KW system and I still have a $250+ bill every month . I pay more then my fair share of the Electric maintainance but they want to reduce what I do feed back into the system( which I take back that same day) while they get to sell that electricity to other people in the neighborhood at full price. I'll put 30KW up there and go completely off grid before I allow FPL to start reducing my rates. Instead of $250 they will get $0
 
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I'm Ok with people having a Minimium FPL charge with netmetering but heck.... I've got a 11KW system and I still have a $250+ bill every month . I pay more then my fair share of the Electric maintainance but they want to reduce what I do feed back into the system( which I take back that same day) while they get to sell that electricity to other people in the neighborhood at full price. I'll put 30KW up there and go completely off grid before I allow FPL to start reducing my rates. Instead of $250 they will get $0
I feel the same. Curious how you get to $250 a month though with that system?
 
May want to look at efficiency a bit....speaking to you Crimson. But of course several cars and 6000 sqft and 5 occupants - that might be reasonable. I have 3 occupants, 2 Teslas and 3800 sqft. Use about 16 mwh a year. And don't complain to me about a/c, heat is far worse. But we do have longer no-HVAC seasons than most of FL. 16 mwh per year should be about $2000 by average SE US rates.

I don't think off grid takes $150k in Florida. For a very large house with lots of occupants, maybe.
I have a net zero house (-7 HERS) with a $36k system that was $18k after incentives. $10k in batteries and $10k in a generator would get me there. The generator would be significantly less (but I have NG - that I don't use to heat with). Batteries have federal TC incentives. I would probably add some panels for a bit of over generation.

I considered doing it but we have good net metering and $14 a month fixed. Plus batteries are still pretty expensive.

I think $50k could do it. That is $230 a month on a 30 year at 4%. Now I am ignoring the battery longevity, generator maintenance etc but you are also locked in for 30 years and given current inflation trends, that is pretty good.
 
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Bill passed the FL House and Senate, which is populated by folks on the dole from FPL and most of them being historically against solar in any form. It was watered down significantly, but it's still bad news.

 
Bill passed the FL House and Senate, which is populated by folks on the dole from FPL and most of them being historically against solar in any form. It was watered down significantly, but it's still bad news.

How committed are you to living in Florida?


This being a state level bill, I assume that even if FPL doesn't cover all of Florida, it still won't matter as other PUD (people's utility districts) or investor owned utilities might have roughly the same impact on their customers as FPL has on their customers.

H'mm - further reading indicates that PUD might be an Oregon thing.
 
How committed are you to living in Florida?


This being a state level bill, I assume that even if FPL doesn't cover all of Florida, it still won't matter as other PUD (people's utility districts) or investor owned utilities might have roughly the same impact on their customers as FPL has on their customers.

H'mm - further reading indicates that PUD might be an Oregon thing.
We're committed. Not only that but you can't go off-grid. Even if you want to. So not only will they surcharge you in order to recover lost income from your installation they will prevent you from saying FU and getting off of their "dole for the utility company" program. Pretty good deal obviously. Guaranteed profits, don't have to provide anything because the house is self-sufficient and yet they will make as much money as they would have if they had been supplying power. It's a win-win for FPL. Easily the worst public utility of all time in my opinion.
 
We're committed. Not only that but you can't go off-grid. Even if you want to. So not only will they surcharge you in order to recover lost income from your installation they will prevent you from saying FU and getting off of their "dole for the utility company" program. Pretty good deal obviously. Guaranteed profits, don't have to provide anything because the house is self-sufficient and yet they will make as much money as they would have if they had been supplying power. It's a win-win for FPL. Easily the worst public utility of all time in my opinion.
I hear that. I'm surprised that one can't terminate electric service entirely - I would think that there are either limitations in the law about that, or that the very idea is challengeable in court.


Who pays for the electric hookup at a vacant property for instance? Can you even have a cabin in the woods? What about campers!! Or the homeless!?! OMG - so many people without power service, and all waiting to be taxed by the good folks at FPL.

At my mom's house in Arkansas the local utility provided a roll up service where they unhook the power cable from your home and roll it back to the nearby power pole and spool the cable there. Then the next owners can reconnect the service if desired, and the current owner can do things like demo the house and build anew. Maybe you can get the FPL to disconnect the cable preparatory to demolishing and building a new house on your property (and stopping service during the rebuild time). Then fail to go through on the demo and rebuild and stick with what you got minus FPL. :D

Pretty sad when the local utility can be such a pisser that spending 6 digits seems like a better than stupid way to spend money, just to get away from them.